Push the Ball?

[Paesano]

If it's such a great crossover sport to basketball why did Brimah and Thabeat start with nearly zero natural basketball instincts? Part of this very thread is how the guards had to help him rebound. Sorry not buying that!

You are quite obtuse. Saying a sport is a good crossover sport is not the same as saying they are the same sport. Instincts are part nature and part nurture. You can develop them to some extent by playing the game in question. Running cross country won't help your basketball instincts either. Again, soccer is closer in that regard but no one can go straight from soccer to basketball and immediately have great instincts. No one claimed that. They just claimed that it is a good crossover sport, which it is, relative to other options. Saying cross country is better for basketball is just nonsensical.

 

[Chief00]

Cross Country is not a "cross over sport " to basketball; I never said that. I merely said it was a conditioning sport. Remember the annual Husky Run?

As for the best cross over sport to basketball it's probably basketball. But a lot of coaches would tell you basketball, running and strength/agility training. Other than some conditioning soccer is probably a net negative especially when you add the soccer Mom type culture in the USA for youth soccer. It doesn't prepare a kid for a Coach Calhoun or even Coach Ollie.
Just reading your post you think your kid is a star in 3 sports - perhaps he is - and God Bless him - but that's the type of thing soccer brings to a basketball team - it's tough for a coach to level set all that noise.
Using your vernacular I think volleyball would be the most likely cross over sport to basketball.

 

[imno1]

If it's such a great crossover sport to basketball why did Brimah and Thabeat start with nearly zero natural basketball instincts? Part of this very thread is how the guards had to help him rebound. Sorry not buying that!

It's more a matter of not playing the game until later in life why fundamentally they were behind entering college. I think AB has pretty good instinct for a 7 fter who hasn't been playing that long. He's a great shot blocker and had decent form on his shot. His biggest flaw has been lack of strength. Soccer is a great crossover sport for improving footwork and conditioning. Don't confuse skill and instinct

 

[jibsey]

If starting our break is not better this year then the addition of Miller would be a failure and I don't expect that to happen. Brimah, better rebounding. Hamilton really sees the whole court and will be as good or better, and Miller who is supposed to be a rebounding machine is a big upgrade over last year. Adams also has the instinct to initiate and push the break. Let's not worry over this.

 

[Chief00]

I am convince I can never convince the soccer Dad's that it's not a great training sport for basketball. This whole soccer Mom/Dad thing is primarily emotional - and breaking down the game further doesn't respond to that.

 

[Paesano]

Most

Cross Country is not a "cross over sport " to basketball; I never said that. I merely said it was a conditioning sport. Remember the annual Husky Run?

As for the best cross over sport to basketball it's probably basketball. But a lot of coaches would tell you basketball, running and strength/agility training. Other than some conditioning soccer is probably a net negative especially when you add the soccer Mom type culture in the USA for youth soccer. It doesn't prepare a kid for a Coach Calhoun or even Coach Ollie.
Just reading your post you think your kid is a star in 3 sports - perhaps he is - and God Bless him - but that's the type of thing soccer brings to a basketball team - it's tough for a coach to level set all that noise.
Using your vernacular I think volleyball would be the most likely cross over sport to basketball.

First, to say soccer is a net negative is just silly. You get conditioning and agility training. Yes, it would be better to play basketball instead but that is not always easy to do. We don't live in a densely populated urban or suburban area. Specializing versus staying diverse is an ongoing debate.

I don't know why you are obsessed with this soccer mom thing. It isn't like that everywhere. My kid's coach is pretty tough and their games get physical.

 

[CL82]

Not too worried about rebounding. Brimah should be improved, Miller is a stud rebounder and Hamilton is a great rebounder from his postion.

I don't think Brimah will be an improved rebounder because his game is blocks not boxing out and getting in position to rebound but the rest of your is spot on. With our personnel look for us to be opportunistic on the fast break. We'll take it when it there but we'll be very comfortable in the half court set, much like the Bazz years.

 

[jleves]

I don't know why you are obsessed with this soccer mom thing. It isn't like that everywhere. My kid's coach is pretty tough and their games get physical.

It's his strawman - if he can't convince you that his opinion is fact he can fall back on the argument that soccer mom/dad mentality precludes you from ever understanding. Because, you know, that ego will not accept that he isn't always right. This is the guy who is convinced he was with Andre cause they sent a text.

 

[CL82]

Most

First, to say soccer is a net negative is just silly. You get conditioning and agility training.

I do think that in this day and age kids have to start culling down their sports by the end of middle school, unless they are athletic freaks, like Burrell (and Dropo.) That said soccer is a 'crossover sport.' Yes the conditioning is terrific, particularly for mids, and you develop the ability to change direction, but I also think that soccer is great mental training. It's all about taking the right angles and getting to open space. Two skills that transfer well to other sports, particularly basketball.

(Disclaimer - I'm not talking about rec soccer but rather travel, select or AAU. The difference is better coaching, more practice and better opposition.)

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

The idea that playing soccer could possibly be a negative factor in someone's development as a basketball player - and attributing that in part to the "soccer mom culture" - is just classic chief. So nonsensical as to be moronic but presented with this authoritarian condescension that you're not sure if he even has the faintest sense of what a horse's a___ he sounds like.

 

[ctchamps]

Felt one of the biggest improvements for the 99 championship team from the previous season was Rip's ability to know when to help on defensive rebounding and when he could leak.

 

[Chief00]

Felt one of the biggest improvements for the 99 championship team from the previous season was Rip's ability to know when to help on defensive rebounding and when he could leak.

I agree it's not an all or nothing thing - there's some basketball judgement applied. I do know JC would be pretty unhappy if some guy leaked too early and his man gets an offensive rebound. Having said that, with Jake, Freeman and Edmund, Rip often could be pretty confident we would be good on the glass.

 

[Chief00]

The idea that playing soccer could possibly be a negative factor in someone's development as a basketball player - and attributing that in part to the "soccer mom culture" - is just classic chief. So nonsensical as to be moronic but presented with this authoritarian condescension that you're not sure if he even has the faintest sense of what a horse's a___ he sounds like.

As usually with you, plenty of insults - few real life experiences to back it up.

 

[Chief00]

Chief--

I showed my team EPL highlights on video to help them think spatially, to help improve their vision in broken court and transition situations. This has nothing to do with American "soccer moms." It worked because basketball and soccer are very similar conceptually--two teams defending two goals and alternating attacks. They are not the same, and clearly there are massive differences when you get into the nuts and bolts of both games. But their conceptual similarities are such that it was still instructive for the kids.

There are a lot of basketball players who played soccer growing up, and some even ascribe their vision to their soccer upbringing, including Steve Nash. Olajuwon played soccer growing up, as did Joel Embiid, to name a recent example.

Olajuwon might be an argument but Moses Malone always took credit for Olajuwon's development over the summer in Houston and The Dream usually agreed. Moses had the famous line during the NBA playoffs - "Me learned em too much"!
I actually played basketball with some soccer players back in the day - some were pests on defense but the only guy I recall as having much basketball ability was Pedro Debrito and he had played plenty of BB in Waterbury - unfortunately Pedro died recently due to an auto accident.

 

[mauconnfan]

If starting our break is not better this year then the addition of Miller would be a failure and I don't expect that to happen. Brimah, better rebounding. Hamilton really sees the whole court and will be as good or better, and Miller who is supposed to be a rebounding machine is a big upgrade over last year. Adams also has the instinct to initiate and push the break. Let's not worry over this.

Agree not anything to worry about anyway because if need be this team will be able to score in the half court game.

 

[Chief00]

I got what I expected taking on the soccer establishment of suburban CT

 

[Mazhude]

http://www.stack.com/2011/08/09/dominate-the-post-with-hakeem-olajuwons-dream-shake-code/

Actually, Olajuwon continues to flaunt his footwork as something he learned from his years of soccer...

"Olajuwon describes his signature move: "The Dream Shake was actually one of my soccer moves, which I translated to basketball. It would accomplish one of three things—one, to misdirect the opponent and make him go the opposite way; two, to freeze the opponent and leave him devastated in his tracks; [and] three, to shake off the opponent and give him no chance to contest the shot." LeBron is not the first superstar to seek out Olajuwon's instruction. Others who have studied with the Dream include Kobe Bryant and Dwight Howard..."

 

[dennismenace]

Also important to running is the ability to make the "long pass" like Sheffer did best. Short outlet but quick on the run 60 footer makes the occasional fast break good too. Marcus Williams did it a few times and Bazz a couple but very few had that same ability as Sheffer to throw it to the spot.

Yes! And if I remember correctly that was the last team to really utilize the full court press a lot (which I loved). Guess you have to have the certain talent to go with the system. Loved how JC used 10 players and even falling behind they stayed with it and ran down opposing offenses. Wondered why UConn never seemed to use that since and I think you partially or fully answered my question on that point.

 

[Chief00]

Yes! And if I remember correctly that was the last team to really utilize the full court press a lot (which I loved). Guess you have to have the certain talent to go with the system. Loved how JC used 10 players and even falling behind they stayed with it and ran down opposing offenses. Wondered why UConn never seemed to use that since and I think you partially or fully answered my question on that point.

Calhoun would be the first to admit that if a team has talented guards, who play in a team concept, they will beat the press more than the press will beat them.

 

[ZenConn]

People tend to forget that Donny Marshall was a pretty good soccer player. He had several D1 offers as a soccer player coming out of high school and it's no surprise he was part of the best fast break teams we've had.

 

[dennismenace]

Calhoun would be the first to admit that if a team has talented guards, who play in a team concept, they will beat the press more than the press will beat them.

That is true. Also, when I see how few coaches use it today the matter of recruiting elite athletes
might be another reason due to the lack of NBA teams using this type of defense. Sort of enjoy that when UConn used it successfully and really hated to see it coming from Louisville. We had a lot of problems with them.

 

[David 76]

"Soccer Moms" came out of politics to describe a suburban sector of the population needed to win an election. Chief is using it to describe helicopter parents: a generation of suburban parents that ere over-protective, over-involved and helicoptered about their kids. There is overlap in the age group but to think youth soccer parents are any worse than any other youth sports parent is just silly. Suburban parents have more than their share of being over-protective and overbearing. Period

Chieh was correct in clarifying that soccer did not help Brimah's rebounding, I think that will hold up.

 

[Chief00]

"Soccer Moms" came out of politics to describe a suburban sector of the population needed to win an election. Chief is using it to describe helicopter parents: a generation of suburban parents that ere over-protective, over-involved and helicoptered about their kids. There is overlap in the age group but to think youth soccer parents are any worse than any other youth sports parent is just silly. Suburban parents have more than their share of being over-protective and overbearing. Period

Chieh was correct in clarifying that soccer did not help Brimah's rebounding, I think that will hold up.

Much of the post I agree with. My earlier response was in response to the specific argument that soccer was a "crossover" sport for basketball. While a few legitimate examples were made, however if you read several posts you would think soccer should be part of training for every college and NBA team. I know soccer and UConn women's basketball (which I actually enjoy) are sacred in CT surburban culture and that's fine - The difference is while I can learn so much about basketball from watching Geno run a practice or coach a game - soccer for me doesn't yield the same results. Also, when you consider the hundreds of NBA players during the last decade most, to my knowledge, don't have much if any soccer background.

 

[August_West]

Specializing versus staying diverse is an ongoing debate. .

It shouldn't be a debate.
I'm with Urban Meyer ( and a host of the best at their respective sports) in this debate

http://highschoolsportsstuff.areavo...gbpl&st_refDomain=m.facebook.com&st_refQuery=

 

[Hoophound]

Cross Country is not a "cross over sport " to basketball; I never said that. I merely said it was a conditioning sport. Remember the annual Husky Run?

As for the best cross over sport to basketball it's probably basketball. But a lot of coaches would tell you basketball, running and strength/agility training. Other than some conditioning soccer is probably a net negative especially when you add the soccer Mom type culture in the USA for youth soccer. It doesn't prepare a kid for a Coach Calhoun or even Coach Ollie.
Just reading your post you think your kid is a star in 3 sports - perhaps he is - and God Bless him - but that's the type of thing soccer brings to a basketball team - it's tough for a coach to level set all that noise.
Using your vernacular I think volleyball would be the most likely cross over sport to basketball.

Soccer benefits basketball players in terms of footwork. This is most beneficial on defense. Soccer players generally play great defense on a basketball court and I've heard coaches point this out many times.

On offense, I've never been convinced of a real benefit other than in mentality. Soccer players will get out there and run you off the court.