Providence post game thread

[Gurleyman]

I’m not blaming our season on guys who weren’t/aren’t suppose to be starters.

Mahaney and Karaban were the ones who were suppose to be All-Americans and neither might not be All-Conference.

I’d start there before blaming sophomore who did not have the green lights or rope those guys were given/still have this season. That’s what Hurley banked the season on.

McNeeley missed 6 weeks. Karaban missed a couple games. The door was wide open. There was tons of rope. There was a close game when AK was ready to check in and Ross has a steal and breakaway, and Hurley pulled AK back to let Ross keep playing. A couple minutes later, AK checked in for someone else. But moments like that have been too rare. Since Thanksgiving (when we put the cupcakes away), Ross has a total of 4 offensive rebounds and 4 steals in 250 minutes … those are the types of things that could keep him on the floor without scoring. Getting extra possessions. Having a nose for the ball. Hustle plays. Not even skill plays, just being active.

Terrence Samuel had a key part in our 2014 run even though he couldn’t shoot and was basically in over his head at our level. But he did something with his minutes when he was out there at both ends - he was a good defender with a nose for the ball, and he attacked the rim with ferocity on offense and had a knack for finishing in traffic, so he wasn’t useless at that end, and he played a lot more than his skill set should have warranted. All Ross and Stewart have to do for good minutes is play decent D and do maybe one thing well on offense so we don’t play 5-on-4. Stewart’s problem is attention to detail on the D side of things, and his offense wavers too much to counteract that. Ross just hasn’t shown anything on offense against good teams. More recent bench guys like Joey C, Alleyne, Diarra, Stewie, Diarra and Johnson last year found their niche at one end and did enough to contribute on the other that they played. Alleyne played through his shooting woes because he did his job defensively, JoeyC played through getting hunted on D because he could go on a heater on offense (being paired with Clingan off the bench helped mask his defensive woes, granted).

Their story isn’t finished by a long shot. Stewart is in line for the AK role if we don’t get a portal guy (and sometimes the portal guy doesn’t work out and you seize those minutes - ask Hassan). I don’t know about the freshmen, but Ross might be the only guy on the whole team next year who can guard anyone on the perimeter, so he could be someone who has to play. But this year, they need to take advantage of opportunities and they need to show they belong out there. Their recruiting rankings and what some guy wrote about them on the AAU circuit doesn’t matter any more.

 

[HuskyWarrior611]

McNeeley missed 6 weeks. Karaban missed a couple games. The door was wide open. There was tons of rope. There was a close game when AK was ready to check in and Ross has a steal and breakaway, and Hurley pulled AK back to let Ross keep playing. A couple minutes later, AK checked in for someone else. But moments like that have been too rare. Since Thanksgiving (when we put the cupcakes away), Ross has a total of 4 offensive rebounds and 4 steals in 250 minutes … those are the types of things that could keep him on the floor without scoring. Getting extra possessions. Having a nose for the ball. Hustle plays. Not even skill plays, just being active.

Terrence Samuel had a key part in our 2014 run even though he couldn’t shoot and was basically in over his head at our level. But he did something with his minutes when he was out there at both ends - he was a good defender with a nose for the ball, and he attacked the rim with ferocity on offense and had a knack for finishing in traffic, so he wasn’t useless at that end, and he played a lot more than his skill set should have warranted. All Ross and Stewart have to do for good minutes is play decent D and do maybe one thing well on offense so we don’t play 5-on-4. Stewart’s problem is attention to detail on the D side of things, and his offense wavers too much to counteract that. Ross just hasn’t shown anything on offense against good teams. More recent bench guys like Joey C, Alleyne, Diarra, Stewie, Diarra and Johnson last year found their niche at one end and did enough to contribute on the other that they played. Alleyne played through his shooting woes because he did his job defensively, JoeyC played through getting hunted on D because he could go on a heater on offense (being paired with Clingan off the bench helped mask his defensive woes, granted).

Their story isn’t finished by a long shot. Stewart is in line for the AK role if we don’t get a portal guy (and sometimes the portal guy doesn’t work out and you seize those minutes - ask Hassan). I don’t know about the freshmen, but Ross might be the only guy on the whole team next year who can guard anyone on the perimeter, so he could be someone who has to play. But this year, they need to take advantage of opportunities and they need to show they belong out there. Their recruiting rankings and what some guy wrote about them on the AAU circuit doesn’t matter any more.

You think they could’ve knocked Karaban or McNeeley out of the starting lineup?

I’m also not comparing how freshmen played under other coaches to Hurley. It’s not fair. They are clearly coached different to consistently play as confident as they did and our guys not doing the same.

Alleyne was exactly an example I was thinking of too. If Ross went out there and threw up a bunch of bricks would that be better? And if so, why doesn’t his coach just tell him to shoot more?

 

[F101Voodoo]

I have to confess I was rooting for the PC walk ons at the end of the game

You were not the Lone Ranger doing that!

 

[HuskyWarrior611]

Anyways, that doesn’t negate the fact that we didn’t bet our season on these guys.

It’s just dumb to say that about guys we didn’t play on to be star players or even starters. It’s like saying our 2023 season came down to Joey C and Alleyne. Or last year came down to Diarra and Samson.

 

[mauconnfan]

Reed came in after Samson's first foul, not the 2nd. And then played like the next 10 minutes straight.

He came in immediately after he got out toughed for a rebound, Dan Hurley was po’d.

 

[mauconnfan]

Solo had a nice game too.

Good game stupid fouls take away from nice im afraid. But some things are slowly getting better with Solo to become a complete 2G star. Like it.

 

[Son of Robert]

Stew had a solid, workmanlike game? What game did you watch? He was passive, took two bad threes, missed a couple of box outs that directly led to points, and was his typical self on D.

I am looking on the positive side of things. Were those bad threes or did he just miss a couple? He's the only guy missing boxouts? It takes five guys to play out there. I agree he is not being as impactful as he could be. He's spreading the floor, he's keeping the ball moving, screening, but he's not really looking to score. His defense could improve some as well no doubt. I would also like to see him being stronger on the boards. We have a few games left, players are still emerging, he will have opportunities to do more with his minutes.

 

[TheShot1990]

Luke Fonts outscored a combined Ross, Stewart, Nowell and Mahaney.
Fortunately the starters and Reed were great.

 

[RuffRuff]

I am looking on the positive side of things. Were those bad threes or did he just miss a couple? He's the only guy missing boxouts? It takes five guys to play out there. I agree he is not being as impactful as he could be. He's spreading the floor, he's keeping the ball moving, screening, but he's not really looking to score. His defense could improve some as well no doubt. I would also like to see him being stronger on the boards. We have a few games left, players are still emerging, he will have opportunities to do more with his minutes.

I had no problem with his 3s, both good looks.

It’s a lot more about what he’s doing off the ball that leaves a lot to be desired. At some point you have to create your own value, find ways, be resourceful, contribute. Standing at the 3 point line waiving your hand while action is going on in front of you non stop isn’t it, nor is getting caught gazing on d.

 

[DogMania]

Next year we'll see but he will be a pro eventually so by @Agent 0 word isn't wrong now he might have meant to say NBA then that's another thing.

He said "after this year". That's where I doubt his prediction. Now if UConn goes deep in both tournaments and Reed puts up numbers like he did yesterday, maybe he does throw his hat in the ring.

But if he shows some inconsistencies, my guess is he returns for one more season to earn some NIL money and improve his game. Maybe he tests the NBA waters but returns, but with all the talent out there, I think he risks not getting drafted or late 2nd round at best.

Adama was consistent and wasn't drafted. So on more year in college will do him good.

 

[RuffRuff]

Anyways, that doesn’t negate the fact that we didn’t bet our season on these guys.

It’s just dumb to say that about guys we didn’t play on to be star players or even starters. It’s like saying our 2023 season came down to Joey C and Alleyne. Or last year came down to Diarra and Samson.

Didn’t bet our season but the talk of “depth” was rampant early as an advantage. We thought we’d be coming in waves and here we are with 5 reliable players. You can talk chicken or egg all you want but players still need to show something in the minutes they get.

 

[WhereistheDove?]

I’m not blaming our season on guys who weren’t/aren’t suppose to be starters.

Mahaney and Karaban were the ones who were suppose to be All-Americans and neither might not be All-Conference.

I’d start there before blaming sophomore who did not have the green lights or rope those guys were given/still have this season. That’s what Hurley banked the season on.

You realize there can be more than one thing that went wrong, right? If Hurley goes into next season betting the team’s chances on big jumps from Stewart and Ross, he is clinically insane.

 

[HuskyWarrior611]

Didn’t bet our season but the talk of “depth” was rampant early as an advantage. We thought we’d be coming in waves and here we are with 5 reliable players. You can talk chicken or egg all you want but players still need to show something in the minutes they get.

Again, if Ross went in chucking shots up like Nahiem would that have been better?

 

[Gurleyman]

You think they could’ve knocked Karaban or McNeeley out of the starting lineup?

I’m also not comparing how freshmen played under other coaches to Hurley. It’s not fair. They are clearly coached different to consistently play as confident as they did and our guys not doing the same.

Alleyne was exactly an example I was thinking of too. If Ross went out there and threw up a bunch of bricks would that be better? And if so, why doesn’t his coach just tell him to shoot more?

Not with how they played, no. Diarra knocked Mahaney out because when the door opened, he burst through it. And I have no sympathy for Mahaney’s situation. I mean I feel bad for him as a human, but he’s a big boy and didn’t get it done. That’s sports. But even if they didn’t start, they could have certainly earned more rotation time. AK’s slump opened the door too. The guy in front of me is struggling? Great - I’m going to be a shark and take some bites out of his minutes. Or Liam could have eased back into the rotation a little more and not played heavy minutes when he was not in game shape. Hurley has had no problem leaving AK on the bench when Stewart’s had it going. He wants to win.

They have both gotten plenty of court time and have not taken advantage to prove they deserve much more on a consistent basis. Ross has 4 offensive rebounds and 4 steals since Maryland Eastern Shore - that’s 8 extra possessions he’s gotten us since thanksgiving in roughly 6 full games worth of playing time. That’s just not good enough for someone trying to earn playing time as an athletic wing. You don’t have to score, but there are other ways to make plays. I have no sympathy for his situation either. If he is too mentally soft as a sophomore about quick hooks, then I don’t exactly want him out there in a close game in a regional final. Sometimes you have to weed out the people who are ready to handle adversity.

Next year, maybe one or both seize the moment and become dogs and don’t let new guys take their roles. But this year is this year and we aren’t going to sabotage this season to let people go through growing pains. They’ve had the chances to prove themselves. If they need lots of playing time to get their heads on straight and play through mistakes, there are a few more cupcakes next November for them to work on that.

 

[Mr. French]

You think they could’ve knocked Karaban or McNeeley out of the starting lineup?

I’m also not comparing how freshmen played under other coaches to Hurley. It’s not fair. They are clearly coached different to consistently play as confident as they did and our guys not doing the same.

Alleyne was exactly an example I was thinking of too. If Ross went out there and threw up a bunch of bricks would that be better? And if so, why doesn’t his coach just tell him to shoot more?

I understand your points, but what I don’t understand is why you consider every failing of every player only on Hurley.

Even when he plays a guy and the guy does nothing, you chalk it up to unknown and unprovable and unseen factors such as “Hurley isn’t telling him to be aggressive” or “Hurley hasn’t helped him develop his handle” meanwhile you’re acting like the players have no say.

I think you know this…but it’s way more on a player to produce than the coach to teach him how to. The coach needs to give him confidence (he has, publicly numerous times) and the kid has to produce. The coach has to help him develop (there’s no way I buy the idea that he hasn’t been working with the players on specific skill sets) and then the kid has to DO IT.

Some kids have development plans, and put in the work, and are given opportunities, but they just don’t develop as well as others. You can’t just say for every scenario “Coach didn’t develop him.” It’s lazy.

If he produces, it doesn’t matter if Hurley hates him, he’s going to play. If he doesn’t produce, it doesn’t matter if he’s the greatest kid and practices unbelievably, he can’t play.

To your point about them not being relied on as starters, it’s not the same as last year. We needed Diarra and Alleyne and Joey to be bench contributors , and they WERE. There’s no scenario where we know how the board reacts to those guys not producing in their bench roles, because they all did. If they didn’t, it’s possible those teams don’t win it anll and then you’re wrong, they would be the reason we lost. But no one knows because they did. This year’s role players, whom are the topics of this discussion, have not.

 

[PAHusky]

Reed is only getting better and better. Excited to see how he finished out this year and what the expectations for him for next year develop into.

Not to get ahead of things but we can’t go into next year relying on Nowell at pg or Ross/Stewart figuring things out. I understand that he’s been hurt but I would have expected more out of Nowell by now. I don’t expect a kid rated where he was to be an immediate starter or even impact player but it looks like he’s barely hanging on out there

 

[freescooter]

The question is which is better for this year's team. And even though Mahaney gave us nothing today. He looked like he belonged much more than Nowell.

I do get that Nowell is the future. And I know when two guys are equal you play the younger guy. But if you still have hope for this year. Giving Mahaney minutes is much more likely to pay off.

Nowell is a short slow point guard. He isn’t the answer now and I seriously doubt he is the future either.

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

Anyways, that doesn’t negate the fact that we didn’t bet our season on these guys

The single biggest bet by the staff last offseason was that Ross, Ball and Stewart would make a jump. What are we even debating here?

 

[RuffRuff]

Again, if Ross went in chucking shots up like Nahiem would that have been better?

Nahiem was a confident and likely practice showcased scorer. He was also a transfer that exhibited it elsewhere, to counter another one of your constant points. We act as though the short leash is cast without merit. He was given plenty of leash early, when there was more flexibility to let him shoot 21% from 3.

You want to get in the box score - go rebound, get a put back or two and play paralyzing D.

 

[HuskyWarrior611]

I understand your points, but what I don’t understand is why you consider every failing of every player only on Hurley.

Even when he plays a guy and the guy does nothing, you chalk it up to unknown and unprovable and unseen factors such as “Hurley isn’t telling him to be aggressive” or “Hurley hasn’t helped him develop his handle” meanwhile you’re acting like the players have no say.

I think you know this…but it’s way more on a player to produce than the coach to teach him how to. The coach needs to give him confidence (he has, publicly numerous times) and the kid has to produce. The coach has to help him develop (there’s no way I buy the idea that he hasn’t been working with the players on specific skill sets) and then the kid has to DO IT.

Some kids have development plans, and put in the work, and are given opportunities, but they just don’t develop as well as others. You can’t just say for every scenario “Coach didn’t develop him.” It’s lazy.

If he produces, it doesn’t matter if Hurley hates him, he’s going to play. If he doesn’t produce, it doesn’t matter if he’s the greatest kid and practices unbelievably, he can’t play.

To your point about them not being relied on as starters, it’s not the same as last year. We needed Diarra and Alleyne and Joey to be bench contributors , and they WERE. There’s no scenario where we know how the board reacts to those guys not producing in their bench roles, because they all did. If they didn’t, it’s possible those teams don’t win it anll and then you’re wrong, they would be the reason we lost. But no one knows because they did. This year’s role players, whom are the topics of this discussion, have not.

At this point I’m not really hung up on what Hurley says. Like do you think his press conference about Ross to then play him 2 minutes did anything to inspire confidence? I’d say it did exactly the opposite. Actions speak louder than words.

A player does not have a say if a coach doesn’t give them a green light. If you’re Ross and you think if you go out and miss shots or turn the ball over being aggressive you’ll get pulled, that’s not you having a say.

I think we’ve seen from Solo being a 44% 3 point shooter that he’s a pretty hard worker that will get better at what you ask him to work on. It’s pretty clear the directions these players get pushed in.

Alleyne was basically Ross except a shot chucker. He played solid defense, didn’t assist, didn’t rebound, except he put up a shot almost every chance he got… and we let him.

I really hope that we get a chance to see these guys ACTUALLY be relied on and bet on next year so this board can see the importance of having rope and your role.

There were plenty (I don’t think you) of people who were down on Solo going into the summer last year too based on the role he had where he wasn’t asked to do much.

 

[HuskyWarrior611]

In general I just hate the way Hurley goes about developing these guys. All the bench guys that came in with confidence guns blazing are transfers who developed that confidence and experience elsewhere.

Hurley does not let a lot of the guys that start their careers here get that rope to do the same until it’s time for them to be “the guy” ala sophomore year Hawkins, sophomore year Solo, junior year Jackson or freshman year Karaban when there were no other options.

These are patterns at this point and obvious ones. I’m not blaming players for something every single one of them go through. It’s also why I’m confident that if Stewart and Ross get the chance, they’ll follow that same pattern of “breakout” seasons that’s really just Hurley taking them off the leash.

 

[HuskyWarrior611]

The single biggest bet by the staff last offseason was that Ross, Ball and Stewart would make a jump. What are we even debating here?

Yes it was such a big bet they brought in McNeeley, asked Karaban to come back, and brought in Mahaney.

Because they went so all in on this group

 

[WhereistheDove?]

In general I just hate the way Hurley goes about developing these guys. All the bench guys that came in with confidence guns blazing are transfers who developed that confidence and experience elsewhere.

Hurley does not let a lot of the guys that start their careers here get that rope to do the same until it’s time for them to be “the guy” ala sophomore year Hawkins, sophomore year Solo, junior year Jackson or freshman year Karaban when there were no other options.

These are patterns at this point and obvious ones. I’m not blaming players for something every single one of them go through. It’s also why I’m confident that if Stewart and Ross get the chance, they’ll follow that same pattern of “breakout” seasons that’s really just Hurley taking them off the leash.

I really hope you are right but man, especially with Ross, I have seen literally nothing that makes me comfortable with him tagged for even significant bench minutes next season. Hurley would be insane for not trying to recruit a starter over those two in the portal. If they improve enough to take the job, awesome.

 

[HuskyWarrior611]

I really hope you are right but man, especially with Ross, I have seen literally nothing that makes me comfortable with him tagged for even significant bench minutes next season. Hurley would be insane for not trying to recruit a starter over those two in the portal. If they improve enough to take the job, awesome.

Were you confident in Solo making a jump this year?

I’m honestly not sure for you specifically, but I remember a lot of people on this board questioning Solo’s ability based on his play his freshman year heading into the offseason and were even slow to believe the offseason hype.

Like I said it’s a pattern. I can see this group of sophomores being similar to the Hawkins, Jackson, and Sanogo group if they takeover.