Providence Post Game Thread

[alphasigko]

Lack of hustle/lucky providence shots/poor defense/missing wide open shots/need more dribble penetration/be stronger with ball on the offense/learn how not to foul

And, missed layup after layup while in heavy traffic... Why not attempt to dunk the dang ball every time and get fouled in the process?

 

[Dream Jobbed 2.0]

We need an Edmund Saunders on D. Can Springs not play D? Even if for a few hacks here and there and some rebounding.

This would have been a game to see what he could do vs Hopkins. This guy goes against AS and DC in practice all the time. How is impossible to get him some burn? Karaban is a great prospect but is too slow and weak for Big East 4s.

 

[Ewekon]

No Sweet 16 this year, then absolutely everything, staff wise, must be examined. Danny bought all the groceries. Time to make a steak, not a fake.

After all. It's "just a business".

 

[FriarJ]

Genuine question, what was your opinion on the refs tonight?

PS, I don’t blame the refs for the loss by any stretch.

This is what I will say about them. Jackson might be capable of being a star on ball defender but when a player tries to take him off the dribble he slaps every time. I question his bb IQ. For the rest I think that UConn tries to defend a lot like Jay Wright’s Nova teams. The difference? When Nova would get a couple whistles Wright would back things off and it gave the refs the impression that they were listening to the calls. Hurley doesn’t do that for whatever reason. This home cooking stuff is overrated. PC has taken more FT’s than their opponents on the road and at home, they relentlessly attack and if you are in poor defensive position you will foul. Karaban in particular is a terrible defender in this regard.

Finally, in what seems like an oxymoron the more aggressive teams tend to get more fouls called for them, that bared itself out again last night. We were incredibly aggressive against Marquette for instance, because they can’t rebound for and they were reaching on every single possession.

I also don’t buy the refs don’t like Hurley and they penalize his team. The fact of the matter is that PC dictated tempo and UConn was never comfortable defending that much in the half court. UConn’s defense has lapsed since BE play started for whatever reason. I think it’s as simple as attention to detail. These games are decided by small margins. You have to be sharp.

 

[CardiacAndre7]

This is what I will say about them. Jackson might be capable of being a star on ball defender but when a player tries to take him off the dribble he slaps every time. I question his bb IQ. For the rest I think that UConn tries to defend a lot like Jay Wright’s Nova teams. The difference? When Nova would get a couple whistles Wright would back things off and it gave the refs the impression that they were listening to the calls. Hurley doesn’t do that for whatever reason. This home cooking stuff is overrated. PC has taken more FT’s than their opponents on the road and at home, they relentlessly attack and if you are in poor defensive position you will foul. Karaban in particular is a terrible defender in this regard.

Finally, in what seems like an oxymoron the more aggressive teams tend to get more fouls called for them, that bared itself out again last night. We were incredibly aggressive against Marquette for instance, because they can’t rebound for and they were reaching on every single possession.

I also don’t buy the refs don’t like Hurley and they penalize his team. The fact of the matter is that PC dictated tempo and UConn was never comfortable defending that much in the half court. UConn’s defense has lapsed since BE play started for whatever reason. I think it’s as simple as attention to detail. These games are decided by small margins. You have to be sharp.

I agree with pretty much all you said. But, I do think the refs dislike Hurley, and that’s by his own doing. He pouts and screams all game. That causes issues.

Jackson is always using his hands to defend when he doesn’t need to. He’s a great on ball defender but gets too many ticky tack fouls. PC played more physical, they got more calls. We just don’t really know how to consistently defend without fouling.

 

[FriarJ]

I agree with pretty much all you said. But, I do think the refs dislike Hurley, and that’s by his own doing. He pouts and screams all game. That causes issues.

Jackson is always using his hands to defend when he doesn’t need to. He’s a great on ball defender but gets too many ticky tack fouls. PC played more physical, they got more calls. We just don’t really know how to consistently defend without fouling.

In regards to Hurley, he does himself no favors once the ball is in the air. He must get a handle on it. Calhoun didn’t yell and scream just to scream. He had intention and reason. Hurley just appears to be like me if I was coaching.

 

[superjohn]

This is what I will say about them. Jackson might be capable of being a star on ball defender but when a player tries to take him off the dribble he slaps every time. I question his bb IQ. For the rest I think that UConn tries to defend a lot like Jay Wright’s Nova teams. The difference? When Nova would get a couple whistles Wright would back things off and it gave the refs the impression that they were listening to the calls. Hurley doesn’t do that for whatever reason. This home cooking stuff is overrated. PC has taken more FT’s than their opponents on the road and at home, they relentlessly attack and if you are in poor defensive position you will foul. Karaban in particular is a terrible defender in this regard.

Finally, in what seems like an oxymoron the more aggressive teams tend to get more fouls called for them, that bared itself out again last night. We were incredibly aggressive against Marquette for instance, because they can’t rebound for and they were reaching on every single possession.

I also don’t buy the refs don’t like Hurley and they penalize his team. The fact of the matter is that PC dictated tempo and UConn was never comfortable defending that much in the half court. UConn’s defense has lapsed since BE play started for whatever reason. I think it’s as simple as attention to detail. These games are decided by small margins. You have to be sharp.

I would've been fine with it if they called it like that both ways. I disagreed with all the posters who were saying the refs were terrible against Xavier but they were terrible last night. You guys deserved the win and I won't blame the refs for us sucking but they weren't calling those same bumps when they happened to UConn.

 

[FriarJ]

I would've been fine with it if they called it like that both ways. I disagreed with all the posters who were saying the refs were terrible against Xavier but they were terrible last night. You guys deserved the win and I won't blame the refs for us sucking but they weren't calling those same bumps when they happened to UConn.

Well, there is a couple ways to look at it. Is it UConn is not fouling (they are). And are opponents fouling or not? Check this out UConn is the worst major conference team in FTA/FGA ratio. They are 343 in the country. PC is 34th. Xavier is top 50 I believe and gulp, Creighton is #1. This is an indicator of a team ability to draw fouls. UConn is not good in that area. I don’t know the solution to this btw.

 

[CardiacAndre7]

Well, there is a couple ways to look at it. Is it UConn is not fouling (they are). And are opponents fouling or not? Check this out UConn is the worst major conference team in FTA/FGA ratio. They are 343 in the country. PC is 34th. Xavier is top 50 I believe and gulp, Creighton is #1. This is an indicator of a team ability to draw fouls. UConn is not good in that area. I don’t know the solution to this btw.

That is a pretty pathetic statistic for a team of our caliber. Jesus.

 

[superjohn]

Well, there is a couple ways to look at it. Is it UConn is not fouling (they are). And are opponents fouling or not? Check this out UConn is the worst major conference team in FTA/FGA ratio. They are 343 in the country. PC is 34th. Xavier is top 50 I believe and gulp, Creighton is #1. This is an indicator of a team ability to draw fouls. UConn is not good in that area. I don’t know the solution to this btw.

I've seen all the stats, I also saw you guys fouling and it not being called...

 

[SwingDog]

Well, there is a couple ways to look at it. Is it UConn is not fouling (they are). And are opponents fouling or not? Check this out UConn is the worst major conference team in FTA/FGA ratio. They are 343 in the country. PC is 34th. Xavier is top 50 I believe and gulp, Creighton is #1. This is an indicator of a team ability to draw fouls. UConn is not good in that area. I don’t know the solution to this btw.

A solution is to make teams foul you by mucking things up, driving to the basket for layups and dishing off to Sanogo and Clingan. Make teams play ugly.

 

[Hungryhusky99]

Well, there is a couple ways to look at it. Is it UConn is not fouling (they are). And are opponents fouling or not? Check this out UConn is the worst major conference team in FTA/FGA ratio. They are 343 in the country. PC is 34th. Xavier is top 50 I believe and gulp, Creighton is #1. This is an indicator of a team ability to draw fouls. UConn is not good in that area. I don’t know the solution to this btw.

No, they are 343 in defensive FTA/FGA which just means they foul a lot. On offense they are 139 which is not great but much better obviously.

 

[navery12]

Well, there is a couple ways to look at it. Is it UConn is not fouling (they are). And are opponents fouling or not? Check this out UConn is the worst major conference team in FTA/FGA ratio. They are 343 in the country. PC is 34th. Xavier is top 50 I believe and gulp, Creighton is #1. This is an indicator of a team ability to draw fouls. UConn is not good in that area. I don’t know the solution to this btw.

A solution is to make teams foul you by mucking things up, driving to the basket for layups and dishing off to Sanogo and Clingan. Make teams play ugly.

This is a defensive statistic so it's saying we foul opponents a lot. We're much better (albeit still average) at drawing fouls on offense and are 139th in the country

 

[evmore]

My biggest worry is that this will cause us to just work harder than address the true issues. Hurley loves "brutal practices" but its clear those dont translate. We need to develop a new offensive identity and stop running the same sets. They are easy to guard and predictable. We to continue to develop an identity. It was defense, but with the recent foul trend, that has been erased. I really think Luke Murray can help the most with this but Hurley is who he is and has run the same offense since he stepped on campus.

An outlet for alot of our sets is for our big to slip the high screen, but this hasn't been happening as much or so it seems. Missing shots is part of the game, but we seem to press when we are missing shots, leading to poor ball movement. Too much dribbling, head down stuff. We just need to move the ball faster & make the defense rotate so we can find the soft spot. The good news is that the answers are on the roster. This is fixable .

 

[FriarJ]

This is a defensive statistic so it's saying we foul opponents a lot. We're much better (albeit still average) at drawing fouls on offense and are 139th in the country

Thanks for clearing that up for me guys. I always fail with this metrics crap. Carry on, nothing to see here.

 

[CheshireCat]

Putting aside Goodman's public comments about Hurley, maybe the Big East officiating is not just a UConn problem. Biased and poor officiating is often homecourt based. Conventional wisdom is that poor officials either consciously or subconsciously hand the home team more than its share of 50/50 calls. An easy way to test this (without watching hours of game film) is to look at home records in a conference. Less biased officiating should result in a less extreme home court W/L record within conference games, particularly of games between teams of similar caliber.

The Big East home record is 16-10, which is not great, not terrible, and could simply be a function of better teams winning on the road. But when you break the Big East into tiers, it looks a little different:

1) UConn, PC, Xavier, Marquette, Creighton - Home record of 11-0
2) Villanova, Butler, Seton Hall, SJU - home record of 4-6
3) Depaul, GTown - Home record of 1-4

The two uncompetitive teams are 40% of the home losses for the entire conference.

There is not a single road win over a higher or same tier team so far this season. In games within the same tier, the home team is 7-0. Of those 7 games (PC/UConn, PC/Marq, Xav/UConn, Marq/Creighton, Vill/SJU, SHU/SJU, Dep/GTown), only 2 of them (PC/Marq and Dep/Gtown) were decided by less than 10 points. Basically, if you go on the road in the Big East, you aren't just going to lose, but you are going to lose big, even against a similar level of competition.

It is early in the season, but that is an interesting record of dominance by the home team in games that should be 50/50, or maybe 60/40 (providing for some home court advantage beyond the officiating). But 100/0? That could be a sign that the conference has an officiating problem. This weekend, there are two games that fall into this category: UConn/Creighton and SHU/Butler. Next week, there is Butler/SJU, UConn/Marq, Creighton/Xavier, Villanova/Butler, Prov/Creighton, Marq/Xavier. Will the Big East revert to the mean, or will the home team continue to dominate what should be competitive games? Let's see what happens over the next week or so and revisit.

If you want to do a quick test of this theory, look at the Big 12. It is hard to tier that conference since there have only been 10 conference games played and all the teams except maybe Kansas seem really close, but the home teams' record is 5-5 in those games and almost every game has been competitive. The two games decided by 10+ points were Kansas State at Texas and Baylor at Iowa State, and in one case (Kstate at Texas) the road team won comfortably. I think there is some evidence that the Big 12's officiating is better and less biased than the Big East's.

Interesting take, but your sample size is way too small and there are other factors that play into the advantage a home team has over the road team in college basketball. Those upper tier schools have way better home crowds that make the environment more difficult, and probably have a little more impact on the game (and yes, I understand that would be true in the Big 12 - but the home court environment is impacted by the presence of students, lack thereof, etc). This is a subjective point too, but you're making a statement based on a season that isn't even 1/3 of the way over. Night and day the crowd impact of a St Johns home game vs. a Xavier or a Providence.

You gotta love the conspiracy theories. Can we just accept our losses, admit we got outplayed and just move on vs. it HAVING to be something that wasn't the team or coaching staff's fault? It's obnoxious.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Interesting take, but your sample size is way too small and there are other factors that play into the advantage a home team has over the road team in college basketball. Those upper tier schools have way better home crowds that make the environment more difficult, and probably have a little more impact on the game (and yes, I understand that would be true in the Big 12 - but the home court environment is impacted by the presence of students, lack thereof, etc). This is a subjective point too, but you're making a statement based on a season that isn't even 1/3 of the way over. Night and day the crowd impact of a St Johns home game vs. a Xavier or a Providence.

You gotta love the conspiracy theories. Can we just accept our losses, admit we got outplayed and just move on vs. it HAVING to be something that wasn't the team or coaching staff's fault? It's obnoxious.

Your opinion > facts

Got it.

 

[FriarJ]

Your opinion > facts

Got it.

 

[CardiacAndre7]

Your opinion > facts

Got it.

You think everything you say is absolute truth. You’re the least flexible poster on here.

 

[gsmooth]

Interesting take, but your sample size is way too small and there are other factors that play into the advantage a home team has over the road team in college basketball. Those upper tier schools have way better home crowds that make the environment more difficult, and probably have a little more impact on the game (and yes, I understand that would be true in the Big 12 - but the home court environment is impacted by the presence of students, lack thereof, etc). This is a subjective point too, but you're making a statement based on a season that isn't even 1/3 of the way over. Night and day the crowd impact of a St Johns home game vs. a Xavier or a Providence.

You gotta love the conspiracy theories. Can we just accept our losses, admit we got outplayed and just move on vs. it HAVING to be something that wasn't the team or coaching staff's fault? It's obnoxious.

Both things can be true. The officiating was very, I mean very, favorable for Providence but UConn still has to play better. The officiating didn't force UConn to miss open 3s and their FTs or make adjustments to defending Bryce Hopkins.

The coaching staff can't operate practices with the premise that the officiating cost them the game. They need to clean up things on their end and scheme better even though they have done a good job up to this point.

 

[CheshireCat]

Your opinion > facts

Got it.

Nope - my point just doesn't fit your agenda and challenges your conclusions with other factors. Go compile all the data you want and bring it to the commissioner. You should hook up with the spreadsheet guy collecting data on drawing fouls. Then, bring your stuff to the commissioner and I'm sure a pardon will be granted and they will change our record to 16-0 and all will be right in the world again. Might be easier to just accept the fact we didn't play very well in the 2 losses, and honestly were not playing all that well overall since conference play began, but whatever makes you sleep better at night.

 

[Deepster]

The FT disparity in a game like last night is coaching.

When the other team knows what you're going to do, they plan to exploit it. PC was in the bonus w 14 minutes left and their game plan attached that chink in the armor. We're too predictable.

 

[CheshireCat]

You think everything you say is absolute truth. You’re the least flexible poster on here.

Couldn’t agree more.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

You think everything you say is absolute truth. You’re the least flexible poster on here.

You have it exactly backwards. Cheshire is being inflexible, and I am trying to prove the officiating question with facts. There are some very thoughtful posters on this board that come bearing facts and analysis, and I am always willing to consider those kind of positions.

I posited a thesis, and proposed a way to test the thesis including games that hadn’t been played yet. Cheshire’s post is literally that he doesn’t care what the facts are now or in the future, his opinion is more important. While not a unique position on this board, it is the very definition of inflexibility.

 

[HuskyinWRNY]

What is there to say? 5-22 from 3, 10-44 shooting from non-bigs, 35-19 FT difference (they had 31 when we started intentionally fouling, and we had 7 FTA in the last 2 minutes of garbage time so the disparity doesn't look as bad as it actually was)

Easy to blame the refs, because the entire first half and 10-12 minutes of the second half was some of the worst officiating I've ever seen. Someone has got to talk to BE leadership about that, especially after what Goodman said. It was clear from the start that UConn was not going to get a fair whistle. But you'll never consistently win games when you shoot 5-22 from 3, your starting backcourt shoots 9-32, and your spark plugs off the bench score 2 points on 1-8

In crunch time, Providence won EVERY 50/50 ball. Yeah there were foul calls missed to help, but we didn't even pretend to box out or go for rebounds. We got outworked and outhustled.

Honestly not many good things to say about this game. We know exactly what Creighton is going to throw at us, because they threw it at us twice last year. We have a few days to prepare and pull out a statement win on Saturday.

creighton is going to pack it in just like xavier and providence. we need to figure out how to beat that defense. the ball has to come out if that happens, then our guards can drive and dish.