Prince vs. Turtle

[intlzncster]

Did Samuels perform terrible on the AAU circuit? A lot of these kids out there dropping 20+ a game haven't been coached yet either. There's honestly no excuse to me for this poor play. Players know AAU is when you're suppose to shine the most. If he is on a bad team it's even more of a reason he should be doing better. He's suppose to eventually play PG for us but can't make his teammates better or be a leader to carry the team to be competitive? We are after too many talented guards to have one that's committed playing like this.

If he's still recovering from his injury, that's a plenty good enough reason. Not everybody bounces back the season immediately following injury.

 

[tcf15]

FWIW Terrence Samuel was a 4-star as a sophomore/junior and he kept dropping in the rankings till he was a 3 star and out of the top 100. Not sure how he performed on AAU circuit, but once he got to UConn, the coaching definitely helped him. If Ollie is still 100% committed to Turtle, then so am I.

 

[caw]

Whatever you need to tell yourself man. I've seen him play twice, he looks completely over his head. I guess that makes me a chicken little. Have you seen him in person? I'll wait....

I have now. Just once in AAU. He looks really off, but he also looked to be playing a position he normally doesn't with a different role. Not sure why he's taking so many threes. Seems to be trying to prove he can shoot, and not just play. He plays a different position and role in high school. He didn't look athletically over his head but he's over his head playing the position the have him at. IMO.

 

[kansashusky]

I have now. Just once in AAU. He looks really off, but he also looked to be playing a position he normally doesn't with a different role. Not sure why he's taking so many threes. Seems to be trying to prove he can shoot, and not just play. He plays a different position and role in high school. He didn't look athletically over his head but he's over his head playing the position the have him at. IMO.

He is trying to play the same game he does when he is in high school. Problem is, he is having trouble atheltically getting to the rim and creating his own shot. Therefore, he is settling for jumpers when that is not his game. When Turtle is at his best he is a facilitator and can get to the rim. Its like he signed with UConn and he has to let everyone know how good he is, when that is not his game. Thus he looks way out of his league. No his team doesnt help, and no his injury doesnt, but we have the opportunity to pick up some really terrific guards in this class, and I think there are several that would benefit us more. I am not Kevin Ollie and neither is anyone on this board. We don't know if he is pleased or if he wants to recruit other guards. With what we have seen he wants to sign other guards.

 

[tcf15]

We don't know if he is pleased or if he wants to recruit other guards. With what we have seen he wants to sign other guards.

True, but that's not a new development because of Turtle's recent play. Ollie's been looking for another guard even before the AAU season started.

 

[Rocktheworld]

If KO believes, I believe.

 

[caw]

He is trying to play the same game he does when he is in high school. Problem is, he is having trouble atheltically getting to the rim and creating his own shot. Therefore, he is settling for jumpers when that is not his game. When Turtle is at his best he is a facilitator and can get to the rim. Its like he signed with UConn and he has to let everyone know how good he is, when that is not his game. Thus he looks way out of his league. No his team doesnt help, and no his injury doesnt, but we have the opportunity to pick up some really terrific guards in this class, and I think there are several that would benefit us more. I am not Kevin Ollie and neither is anyone on this board. We don't know if he is pleased or if he wants to recruit other guards. With what we have seen he wants to sign other guards.

I'm not saying your assessment is wrong because we could easily have seen different games. What I saw was Turtle not playing PG, not being in position to be a facilitator and not even trying to attack the rim. It was not at all what I saw him do in high school. He looked fine defensively (athletically) but again rarely even bothered to try attacking the rim on offense. It didn't appear that was his role on the team and his coach seemed fine with the shots he was taking. I may have been biased as I was told going in that they were highlighting Beasley and not running much through Jackson bc Beasley didn't have much exposure to start the AAU season. It didn't appear much had changed in the game I saw. Maybe Jackson was discouraged from previous games and that's why he didn't attack but not in the game I saw.

 

[Gurleyman]

We've jumped the bitchiness shark if we're bitching about how guys are playing two years before they have a college practice.

I once saw a guard shoot 37 percent as a freshman and then he missed something like 20 shots in a row as a sophomore. I gave up on him - anyone know how his career turned out?

 

[mauconnfan]

Thanks Gurley you save my fingertips some energy!

 

[7774]

Whatever you need to tell yourself man. I've seen him play twice, he looks completely over his head. I guess that makes me a chicken little. Have you seen him in person? I'll wait....

Thanks for waiting.

In either of these games was he coached by Kevin Ollie? Was he playing in the Connecticut system in either of these games? Because if the answers to those questions are 'no' then I really don't care.

None of the stuff you're complaining about will really be a main driver in determining if he gets playing time when he shows up here.

How does he defend his man individually in the UCONN system?
Does he understand how to defend within the UCONN team concept?
Will he recognize the guys he needs to fight over screens against, vs the guys he can go under?
Can he double the post and still recover to his man at the level we need?
Can he play significant periods without turning the ball over at a high rate?
Can he play significant periods without committing silly fouls?
Does he understand the offense and where he needs to be at specific points in time?
Can he rebound his position?

The answers to those questions are what will actually determine his level of success here, because unless you are a ridiculous offensive superstar (Rip/Ray level), you don't see the court much unless you are answering those questions positively.

There is no way to know the answers to those questions right now because a huge percentage of those answers are based upon his mental ability to play basketball rather than his physical ability, and you need to see him in our system to figure them out.

Congrats on seeing him twice in person though.

 

[kansashusky]

Thanks for waiting.

In either of these games was he coached by Kevin Ollie? Was he playing in the Connecticut system in either of these games? Because if the answers to those questions are 'no' then I really don't care.

None of the stuff you're complaining about will really be a main driver in determining if he gets playing time when he shows up here.

How does he defend his man individually in the UCONN system?
Does he understand how to defend within the UCONN team concept?
Will he recognize the guys he needs to fight over screens against, vs the guys he can go under?
Can he double the post and still recover to his man at the level we need?
Can he play significant periods without turning the ball over at a high rate?
Can he play significant periods without committing silly fouls?
Does he understand the offense and where he needs to be at specific points in time?
Can he rebound his position?

The answers to those questions are what will actually determine his level of success here, because unless you are a ridiculous offensive superstar (Rip/Ray level), you don't see the court much unless you are answering those questions positively.

There is no way to know the answers to those questions right now because a huge percentage of those answers are based upon his mental ability to play basketball rather than his physical ability, and you need to see him in our system to figure them out.

Congrats on seeing him twice in person though.

The answer to a lot of your questions right now is no. Maybe it'll change when he gets to UConn, but there are several guards that are a yes that we are currently recruiting. So yes that is why a lot of the boneyard (not everyone) wants to see other guards added (briscoe, Adams, Brunson, Newman, trier)

 

[selles]

The answer to a lot of your questions right now is no. Maybe it'll change when he gets to UConn, but there are several guards that are a yes that we are currently recruiting. So yes that is why a lot of the boneyard (not everyone) wants to see other guards added (briscoe, Adams, Brunson, Newman, trier)

Of course we're going to add another guard. As tcf said that was the obvious plan when we continued recruiting Adams and Briscoe after Turtle's commitment, and it remains the obvious plan now. KO clearly wants three guards in the class.

That is entirely unrelated to where you've gone in this thread, which is to post about the possibility of revoking an offer. Where we've offered a kid and he's committed to us, I think that's extremely poor form and I'd appreciate if you'd let it drop.

 

[DogMania]

He is trying to play the same game he does when he is in high school. Problem is, he is having trouble atheltically getting to the rim and creating his own shot. Therefore, he is settling for jumpers when that is not his game. When Turtle is at his best he is a facilitator and can get to the rim. Its like he signed with UConn and he has to let everyone know how good he is, when that is not his game. Thus he looks way out of his league. No his team doesnt help, and no his injury doesnt, but we have the opportunity to pick up some really terrific guards in this class, and I think there are several that would benefit us more. I am not Kevin Ollie and neither is anyone on this board. We don't know if he is pleased or if he wants to recruit other guards. With what we have seen he wants to sign other guards.

Thanks for the analysis of his game. I think it's important that Ollie honors the scholarship offer to Turtle. I am concerned about how he's playing this spring so far. A player's performance is often impacted by their emotional and/or mental state. If Turtle is not happy with his AAU coach or teammates or with how over their heads his team seems to be against the competition they're facing, it might be impacting his play.

Hopefully he's a better player than what he's showing so far, and if not, the team has enough scholarships that they can recruit the players they need in addition to him. Not all the players we recruit will be starters. Any team needs a certain number of role players that are solid High-major capable contributors off the bench. Hopefully he'll be better than that. I think it's important that Ollie honors his commitment to send a message to other recruits about his loyalty to his players.

 

[intlzncster]

The answer to a lot of your questions right now is no. Maybe it'll change when he gets to UConn, but there are several guards that are a yes that we are currently recruiting. So yes that is why a lot of the boneyard (not everyone) wants to see other guards added (briscoe, Adams, Brunson, Newman, trier)

I think it won't stop Ollie. We'll add even if we don't yet have a schollie available. They always shake out in the end.

 

[7774]

The answer to a lot of your questions right now is no. Maybe it'll change when he gets to UConn, but there are several guards that are a yes that we are currently recruiting. So yes that is why a lot of the boneyard (not everyone) wants to see other guards added (briscoe, Adams, Brunson, Newman, trier)

Well as I mentioned there are no answers to those questions at this time because he's not being coached by KO. You've decided the answers are no, which means nothing.

And connecting Jackson's performance to us recruiting another guard is just bizarre, as multiple people have pointed out. We would be recruiting another guard regardless.

 

[kansashusky]

Just let me be clear, I hope Turtle shakes out and has a great career at UConn, but we have seen with other guards they are hesitant to commit because of our full back court. I realize Ollie is actively recruiting other guards, but him playing poorly and other top guards saying that we have a full back court is a little concerning. I have faith in KO and have no idea what will happen in the future, but this class has the potential to make this one of the best classes in UConn history and with all the dirt bags saying Ollie cannot win with his own players, I want the best class possible.

 

[Sportsman5]

Whatever you need to tell yourself man. I've seen him play twice, he looks completely over his head. I guess that makes me a chicken little. Have you seen him in person? I'll wait....

Players get recruited mostly on their potential to be very good college players in their junior and senior years of college. He has the potential to guard multiple positions at the college level and contribute in several ways on offense with 2-3 years of development including his senior year of high school. Clearly the staff sees this.

 

[mcs333]

I just think there are some red flags going up on Jackson. Yesterday he played 30 and 32 minutes. He was 5 for 28 with 2-16 from 3point distance. Not a good day. Today he played only 9 minutes in a 33 point lost to the next to last place team. He was 0-1 from the field. Something is also wrong with his team as they keep getting blown out. His team has one more game at 6pm. Hopefully he does better.

 

[Tenspro2002]

Players get recruited mostly on their potential to be very good college players in their junior and senior years of college.

This isn't the Wooden era. Players are recruited to play right away, contribute immediately, and in some cases to be a cornerstone of a team. They are not recruited on some hope that in 3-4 years they'll be able to help.

That isn't to say that development isn't important. But for the caliber of player we're trying to recruit, if we're talking ourselves into a guy on the premise that by his junior year he'll amount to something, that's not a good sign.

 

[Sportsman5]

This isn't the Wooden era. Players are recruited to play right away, contribute immediately, and in some cases to be a cornerstone of a team. They are not recruited on some hope that in 3-4 years they'll be able to help.

That isn't to say that development isn't important. But for the caliber of player we're trying to recruit, if we're talking ourselves into a guy on the premise that by his junior year he'll amount to something, that's not a good sign.

what percent of freshman who went to major programs were impact freshman? How many are there besides the ones on Kentucky? Feel free to define impact freshman however you want because no matter how it's reasonably defined it will be a tiny percent.

How many of these players were on sweet 16 teams?

How many players has UConn brought in that were impact players are freshman?

How much value did an impact freshman like Drummond add to the program?

How many Freshman or Sophomores have led UConn to one of their 4 championships?

 

[champs99and04]

This isn't the Wooden era. Players are recruited to play right away, contribute immediately, and in some cases to be a cornerstone of a team. They are not recruited on some hope that in 3-4 years they'll be able to help.

That isn't to say that development isn't important. But for the caliber of player we're trying to recruit, if we're talking ourselves into a guy on the premise that by his junior year he'll amount to something, that's not a good sign.

I think you misread what he said. Was Terrence Samuel a "very good college player" last season? How about Brimah? Facey definitely was not.

We've had very few players commit here who have been immediate stars. Most of the great ones - Kemba and Shabazz are two that come to mind - contribute as to veteran-laden teams as freshman, take their lumps as sophomores, and then morph into stars by the time they are upperclassmen. Samuel looks like he's on the same trajectory.

There are probably 5-10 players per year who could be considered "very good" as freshman, perhaps not even that many. The fact is, those players are exceptions to the overall trend. The vast majority of freshman - even those at big time schools - are not great players by day one.

 

[mauconnfan]

Turtle is a kid still and a good player, let's allow him to break out of a young mans slump and play much more basketball over the next year and half before getting here huh?

 

[DogMania]

I just think there are some red flags going up on Jackson. Yesterday he played 30 and 32 minutes. He was 5 for 28 with 2-16 from 3point distance. Not a good day. Today he played only 9 minutes in a 33 point lost to the next to last place team. He was 0-1 from the field. Something is also wrong with his team as they keep getting blown out. His team has one more game at 6pm. Hopefully he does better.

Does seem like something is going on. He may still not be a 100%. The team seems to be over their heads. Is it bad coaching? Is it bad players and/or bad chemistry? Is Turtle simply not as good as they thought?

Hopefully he's as good as Ollie thought he was and he'll turn out to be very good.