Potential All-American Guard Position

[hoophuskee]

I recall in Paige's freshman year, I heard probably on here or it was on SNY that Paige went to Geno's office telling him she was stunned at how many people hate UCONN. I also recall how many went after Geno during his Olympic run then even after when Dawn made some pro-UCONN decisions he was partially blamed.

Also, recently there was an analysis done by an SEC guy I believe using Torvik methodology. He has Azzi rated beyond top 30. IMO using something like Torvik methodology to publicly rate players as if it’s “defining” is silly. Though to be fair I’m not sure if that’s what was done in this instance. But if that was the intent, then imo it was just over-the-top.

 

[bballnut90]

I think as Azzi stays healthy and plays well in the marquee games (like Sat vs. USC), she will be able to convince voters. I know @Gael was just making a point about Kneepkens but she almost as much as an injury concern as Azzi and certainly a quality of opposition evidence that she can prove with this UCLA stint vs her Utah stint. While it is also true, Azzi did not have any supporters prior to the NCAAT for AP or WBCA, this years "pre season" AP team did have her and have a LOT of votes so she is in the consciousness.

Gael does highlight an interesting aspect that AP team can be fluid on the number of guards it has on it-some 2 sometimes 3. This year, I think Booker and Sarah Strong are locks. Betts is a probable as she has not played as well as expected but still is playing on a powerhouse team. Hidalgo will have gaudy stats that would likely keep her on the 5 person team. If UConn stays undefeated, Azzi stays healthy and keeps playing at the 2026 version, I do see her earning a spot on the team. The potential risk is if UCLA and Betts become unbelievably dominant and/or LSU and Flau'Jae Johnson dominate the SEC to elevate her star.

At the moment, the 5 person team

1. Strong
2. Booker
3. Hidalgo
4. Fudd
5. Betts
6. Johnson
7. Latson
8. Olson-Michigan

Blakes and Crooks should both be on here too

 

[GoChips20]

I’m aware this is a UConn board but aside, I’m not as high on Fudd as the BY or the general WBB fanbase. I think she does what she does at a high level, and short of injury issues that are out of her control, I think she’s pro-ready and will be an impact player in the W.

I just like players who do it all. Fudd’s kind of in rare air because she’s not a combo guard like Paige or Caitlin and isn’t an all-out scoring dynamo like Mikayla Blakes or FSU Ta’Niya Latson. She’s an elite shooter, possibly the best in the country, and at high volume too. Her release is lightning-quick but I don’t see a lot of individual shot creation (which could be more of a system feature, a “why fix what isn’t broke” situation since she’s scoring and shooting well). Not a ton of playmaking either.

I have no doubt she’ll be an All-American this year and a very good pro, I’m just not as high as most.

 

[hoophuskee]

I’m aware this is a UConn board but aside, I’m not as high on Fudd as the BY or the general WBB fanbase. I think she does what she does at a high level, and short of injury issues that are out of her control, I think she’s pro-ready and will be an impact player in the W.

I just like players who do it all. Fudd’s kind of in rare air because she’s not a combo guard like Paige or Caitlin and isn’t an all-out scoring dynamo like Mikayla Blakes or FSU Ta’Niya Latson. She’s an elite shooter, possibly the best in the country, and at high volume too. Her release is lightning-quick but I don’t see a lot of individual shot creation (which could be more of a system feature, a “why fix what isn’t broke” situation since she’s scoring and shooting well). Not a ton of playmaking either.

I have no doubt she’ll be an All-American this year and a very good pro, I’m just not as high as most.

I don't follow the W much but I do think she should be 1st or 2nd pick. But you are calling Azzi an impact player. Most UCONN fans on here have stated she is going to be "better" than "an impact player?" I'm not on here all the time but I thought a vast majority oft BY'ers felt that Azzi isn't Paige. . . Am I wrong?

Secondly, in regard to "doing it all" it al depends on the player. Scottie Pippen "did it all" but was he preferred vs Shaq? Shaq wasn't that good of a rebounder. Anyhow a couple of years ago before the start of the season. And then you have the big time players like Morant that flame out. Might that be someone like Arike from Dallas?

A couple years ago before season started there were constant arguments on here about Nika Muhl (before Azzi got hurt) if she should start or not because a pg also has to be able to make plays on their own was part of and/or a lot of the argument. In other words, "a pg that can do it all." Sure if you happen to have another "Paige." But other than that, why would you want a player taking shots away from both players (paige and Azzi) if they are far less efficient as a scorer?

Just look at Latson. The player you mentioned that as you imply "does it all." I have a ton of respect for her. I thought picking her up was a great, great move. But looking at this year so far - vs the better teams SOCar has played, Texas, SoCal Duke. and Louisville she is a combined 19-48 from the floor. That’s 39.6%.. Overall, why would we want a player on our team that is more likely to take away shots from more efficient scores (there is a difference between “shooter and "scorer." Heck some of Azzi’s elite games have been twice vs SoCar, once vs UCLA and once vs Texas in which Vic said that no player torched his team like that in a long time. SO, Azzi isn’t just a “shooter.)? So, a player we define as “does it all” because they can go one-one better while taking shots away from far more efficient scorers, is a good thing?

 

[AzzisBraids]

Azzi Fudd, Olivia Miles, Hannah Hidalgo, Flaujae Johnson, Mikayla Williams, Mikayla Blakes, Gabriela Jaquez and Olivia Olson are all my top candidates.

Also Azzi Fudd is the best shooting guard in the country and we can move on from that.

 

[DefenseBB]

Blakes and Crooks should both be on here too

Blakes and Crooks should both be on here too

I guess I was listing the voting order as I perceive it for the AP top 5 but for the WBCA team, yes both deserve strong consideration. At this point I am not inclined to state either is a serious contender for the AP 5 first team.

That can change if Blakes leads Vandy to some great upsets and/or Crooks wins Big 12 player of the Year while dominating both Baylor and TCU. Again, I am not optimistic on that but it is plausible

 

[bballnut90]

I guess I was listing the voting order as I perceive it for the AP top 5 but for the WBCA team, yes both deserve strong consideration. At this point I am not inclined to state either is a serious contender for the AP 5 first team.

That can change if Blakes leads Vandy to some great upsets and/or Crooks wins Big 12 player of the Year while dominating both Baylor and TCU. Again, I am not optimistic on that but it is plausible

Blakes might have work to do against top teams but Crooks solidified her spot as a real contender IMO with her complete domination of Iowa and Heiden/Stuelke inside. She leads the nation in scoring averaging more than a point per minute played and is shooting 72% from the floor for a top 10 team. Non-con often leads to inflated numbers but early in the year she’s on a short list of POY consideration and is getting a decent amount of media attention this season too.

I also think Edwards gets serious consideration from SC, more so than Latson.

 

[DefenseBB]

@bballnut90 who would you take between Crooks and Edwards?

I’d take Edwards. Crooks has played against 7 quad 4 teams with only 3 being quasi legit-Marquette, Indiana and Iowa. I will wait to see how she does in the Big 12 slate before I say she truly AA worthy. I am not saying she’s not good and not worthy of consideration. I just think there are better players out there.

 

[visitingcock]

@bballnut90 who would you take between Crooks and Edwards?

I’d take Edwards. Crooks has played against 7 quad 4 teams with only 3 being quasi legit-Marquette, Indiana and Iowa. I will wait to see how she does in the Big 12 slate before I say she truly AA worthy. I am not saying she’s not good and not worthy of consideration. I just think there are better players out there.

Is Crooks a 4? I’ve always considered her a 5 because she camps in the paint. Betts? Beers? Okote?

Anyway, we have two thirds of a season to figure it out. Things are gonna get more competitive next month for everybody except Strong and UConn

 

[bballnut90]

@bballnut90 who would you take between Crooks and Edwards?

I’d take Edwards. Crooks has played against 7 quad 4 teams with only 3 being quasi legit-Marquette, Indiana and Iowa. I will wait to see how she does in the Big 12 slate before I say she truly AA worthy. I am not saying she’s not good and not worthy of consideration. I just think there are better players out there.

I’d take Edwards if I’m building a team but if we’re talking about who is having thus better season thus far I’d pick Crooks. As @visitingcock noted it’s still early in the season though and schedules are going to get beefed up soon. Last year most thought Hannah Hidalgo was the clear favorite to win POY for the first 1/2 to 2/3 of the season and she didn’t take home a single POY award last year.

 

[visitingcock]

On Latson

https://www./features/inside-the-dawn-staley-effect-the-making-of-taniya-latsons-next-version/

 

[GamecockFam]

On Latson

https://www./features/inside-the-dawn-staley-effect-the-making-of-taniya-latsons-next-version/

Link doesn't work but I think I found it by googling the title.

Edit: the URL tool is messing up the link, but it's on The Next Hoops dot com

 

[Bone Dog]

There have been two weaknesses to Azzi’s AA and NPOY portfolio in the past: rebounding and passing. Those are the obvious places critics look when they want to find fault. Azzi’s passing seems to have improved a bit this season, and her rebounding maybe slightly better. But the really striking thing is her defense.

What I mainly see is how she shoulders the load game after game. She and Sarah do whatever it takes to win. Neither one of them is a stat stuffer. Either the relevant voters recognize this or they don’t.

 

[DefenseBB]

There have been two weaknesses to Azzi’s AA and NPOY portfolio in the past: rebounding and passing. Those are the obvious places critics look when they want to find fault. Azzi’s passing seems to have improved a bit this season, and her rebounding maybe slightly better. But the really striking thing is her defense.

What I mainly see is how she shoulders the load game after game. She and Sarah do whatever it takes to win. Neither one of them is a stat stuffer. Either the relevant voters recognize this or they don’t.

Huh? Sarah is ABSOLUTELY a stat stuffer with her points, rebounds, assists, steals and blocks. Azzi is upping her defense but she needs to cut down on her turnovers as she has made far too many silly passes which is uncharacteristic for her.

 

[Bone Dog]

Huh? Sarah is ABSOLUTELY a stat stuffer with her points, rebounds, assists, steals and blocks. Azzi is upping her defense but she needs to cut down on her turnovers as she has made far too many silly passes which is uncharacteristic for her.

You misunderstand me. I was using the term as a pejorative, which context ought to have made clear. As for the rest, you are repeating the points I made about Azzi’s passing.

 

[DefenseBB]

You misunderstand me. I was using the term as a pejorative, which context ought to have made clear. As for the rest, you are repeating the points I made about Azzi’s passing.

I don't think is was just me who misunderstood you with whatever context you intended.
That said, from a guard position, the pre-season voting had 5 guards listed

1. Hidalgo listed on 29 of 31 ballots All-American 1st team in 2024-25 and 2023-24
2. Latson on 14/31 AA 2nd team in 2024-25, Honorable Mention 2022-23 & 2023-24
3. Fudd 11/31
4. Flau'jae Johns 4/31 AA 3rd team in 2024-25
5. Blakes 3/31 AA-3rd team 2024-25

Other guards who received votes in last years end of season balloting were

• Olivia Miles-TCU AA-2nd team 2024-25, 2nd team 2022-23 and HM 2021-22
• Kiki Rice-UCLA AA HM in both 2024-25 and 2023-24
• Malaysia Fulwiley-LSU HM 2024-25
• Rori Harmon-Texas HM in 3 years 2021-22/2022-23/2024-25
• Mikaylah Williams-LSU HM 2024-25

Guards off to great starts this year are

• Jaloni Cambridge-tOSU
• Britt Prince-Nebraska
• Olivia Olson-Michigan
• Tonie Morgan-Kentucky

What Azzi has going for her is name recognition, a top ranked team and elite shooting stats. In other words, she has a strong narrative. In following the voting intently these past few years, I do think the voters are using more analytics to assess the players to go along with the various narratives that coaches and media pundits tout. Azzi has ok Efficiency scores and good Win-Shares by comparison, but she needs to continue her elevation on passing, steals and defensive stopper to match her 51/49/100 shooting stats.

In my opinion, the top contenders when all is said and done will be

• Hidalgo who is a lock for the 1st team unless she gets injured.
• Miles
• Mikayla Blakes
• Fudd
• Harmon

As TCU gains steam with an uncompetitive Big 12, Miles could garner the narrative and her stats will be great. Blakes will score but Vandy will falter in the tough SEC so I see her dropping. If Texas goes undefeated with Harmon and Booker, that could help Rori's case. Rori has name recognition and Vic pushing her leadership but I still think her shooting will hold her back (despite her strong start this year).

So long story short-the decision will come down to Azzi vs. Miles with the edge going to Miles as a point guard and more offensive stats (more rebounds, more assists) to help her plus the fact she's a true point guard for an AA team. Not the story this forum wants to hear but is what I believe. I will be rooting for Azzi but....

 

[visitingcock]

I don't think is was just me who misunderstood you with whatever context you intended.
That said, from a guard position, the pre-season voting had 5 guards listed

1. Hidalgo listed on 29 of 31 ballots All-American 1st team in 2024-25 and 2023-24
2. Latson on 14/31 AA 2nd team in 2024-25, Honorable Mention 2022-23 & 2023-24
3. Fudd 11/31
4. Flau'jae Johns 4/31 AA 3rd team in 2024-25
5. Blakes 3/31 AA-3rd team 2024-25

Other guards who received votes in last years end of season balloting were

• Olivia Miles-TCU AA-2nd team 2024-25, 2nd team 2022-23 and HM 2021-22
• Kiki Rice-UCLA AA HM in both 2024-25 and 2023-24
• Malaysia Fulwiley-LSU HM 2024-25
• Rori Harmon-Texas HM in 3 years 2021-22/2022-23/2024-25
• Mikaylah Williams-LSU HM 2024-25

Guards off to great starts this year are

• Jaloni Cambridge-tOSU
• Britt Prince-Nebraska
• Olivia Olson-Michigan
• Tonie Morgan-Kentucky

What Azzi has going for her is name recognition, a top ranked team and elite shooting stats. In other words, she has a strong narrative. In following the voting intently these past few years, I do think the voters are using more analytics to assess the players to go along with the various narratives that coaches and media pundits tout. Azzi has ok Efficiency scores and good Win-Shares by comparison, but she needs to continue her elevation on passing, steals and defensive stopper to match her 51/49/100 shooting stats.

In my opinion, the top contenders when all is said and done will be

• Hidalgo who is a lock for the 1st team unless she gets injured.
• Miles
• Mikayla Blakes
• Fudd
• Harmon

As TCU gains steam with an uncompetitive Big 12, Miles could garner the narrative and her stats will be great. Blakes will score but Vandy will falter in the tough SEC so I see her dropping. If Texas goes undefeated with Harmon and Booker, that could help Rori's case. Rori has name recognition and Vic pushing her leadership but I still think her shooting will hold her back (despite her strong start this year).

So long story short-the decision will come down to Azzi vs. Miles with the edge going to Miles as a point guard and more offensive stats (more rebounds, more assists) to help her plus the fact she's a true point guard for an AA team. Not the story this forum wants to hear but is what I believe. I will be rooting for Azzi but....

Depending on Michigan’s finish Swords could move into the guard group. They need a big win and maintain a 2 seed.

 

[YKCornelius]

I don't think is was just me who misunderstood you with whatever context you intended.
That said, from a guard position, the pre-season voting had 5 guards listed

1. Hidalgo listed on 29 of 31 ballots All-American 1st team in 2024-25 and 2023-24
2. Latson on 14/31 AA 2nd team in 2024-25, Honorable Mention 2022-23 & 2023-24
3. Fudd 11/31
4. Flau'jae Johns 4/31 AA 3rd team in 2024-25
5. Blakes 3/31 AA-3rd team 2024-25

Other guards who received votes in last years end of season balloting were

• Olivia Miles-TCU AA-2nd team 2024-25, 2nd team 2022-23 and HM 2021-22
• Kiki Rice-UCLA AA HM in both 2024-25 and 2023-24
• Malaysia Fulwiley-LSU HM 2024-25
• Rori Harmon-Texas HM in 3 years 2021-22/2022-23/2024-25
• Mikaylah Williams-LSU HM 2024-25

Guards off to great starts this year are

• Jaloni Cambridge-tOSU
• Britt Prince-Nebraska
• Olivia Olson-Michigan
• Tonie Morgan-Kentucky

What Azzi has going for her is name recognition, a top ranked team and elite shooting stats. In other words, she has a strong narrative. In following the voting intently these past few years, I do think the voters are using more analytics to assess the players to go along with the various narratives that coaches and media pundits tout. Azzi has ok Efficiency scores and good Win-Shares by comparison, but she needs to continue her elevation on passing, steals and defensive stopper to match her 51/49/100 shooting stats.

In my opinion, the top contenders when all is said and done will be

• Hidalgo who is a lock for the 1st team unless she gets injured.
• Miles
• Mikayla Blakes
• Fudd
• Harmon

As TCU gains steam with an uncompetitive Big 12, Miles could garner the narrative and her stats will be great. Blakes will score but Vandy will falter in the tough SEC so I see her dropping. If Texas goes undefeated with Harmon and Booker, that could help Rori's case. Rori has name recognition and Vic pushing her leadership but I still think her shooting will hold her back (despite her strong start this year).

So long story short-the decision will come down to Azzi vs. Miles with the edge going to Miles as a point guard and more offensive stats (more rebounds, more assists) to help her plus the fact she's a true point guard for an AA team. Not the story this forum wants to hear but is what I believe. I will be rooting for Azzi but....

Why is Hidalgo a lock unless she gets injured?

 

[RSHERMVIKES]

IMHO both Azzi Fudd and Sarah Strong will be 1st team AP 5 member and WBCA 10 member All-American teams!
If things stay as they are at the present time they are the best on the undefeated #1 team in the nation!
This voting is for 2025-2026, not any previous year(s)!
If any "talking suit" takes previous injuries, averages, or performances from the past they are not doing what they are assigned to do!
Taking into effect what Crooks of Iowa State has done is record breaking. How she looks has no basis of fact in the voting!
The same can be said for Rori Harmon of TX she is the engine that makes TX go!
Mikayla Blakes is the engine for Vanderbilt's team!
Now if any team falters in the rest of the season that should take bearing on their votes.

 

[YKCornelius]

IMHO both Azzi Fudd and Sarah Strong will be 1st team AP 5 member and WBCA 10 member All-American teams!
If things stay as they are at the present time they are the best on the undefeated #1 team in the nation!
This voting is for 2025-2026, not any previous year(s)!
If any "talking suit" takes previous injuries, averages, or performances from the past they are not doing what they are assigned to do!
Taking into effect what Crooks of Iowa State has done is record breaking. How she looks has no basis of fact in the voting!
The same can be said for Rori Harmon of TX she is the engine that makes TX go!
Mikayla Blakes is the engine for Vanderbilt's team!
Now if any team falters in the rest of the season that should take bearing on their votes.

Bingo! Concur. All the nonsense about "so-and-so won it last year" is eyebrow-raising at best.

 

[HuskylnSC]

I'm trying to summarize THEIR perceptions, not mine

Oh, you mean your perceptions of their perceptions. That's a bucket that doesn't carry water. However, if you would care to quote some of the statements that led you to perceive what the unnamed others are perceiving, then that would offer substance to the discussion.

 

[diggerfoot]

Huh? Sarah is ABSOLUTELY a stat stuffer with her points, rebounds, assists, steals and blocks. Azzi is upping her defense but she needs to cut down on her turnovers as she has made far too many silly passes which is uncharacteristic for her.

Hmmm. I will raise your “Huh?” (for a tangential). Back when many were advocating Fudd be the PG over Muhl, they did so because of her skill, but not in recognition that her A/T ratio was less than 1.00 for much of her first season. As she has gained UConn experience she has cut down on the bad decisions and passes, not increased them, as the term “uncharacteristic” implies.

 

[Cuango]

Given we are about a 3rd of the way through the season, I wanted to offer an opinion on the AA candidates using the Pre-season list, last year's first/second/third and honorable mention list and then the early news/media aspects touting candidates.

As a review, the list of Pre-season guards are:
Hannah Hidalgo ND
Ta'Niya Latson SC
Madison Booker Texas
the 4th and 5th persons were Sarah Strong and Lauren Betts

Just outside that group were Azzi Fudd and Flau'jae Johnson LSU

Also needing consideration will be Olivia Miles TCU, Kiki Rice UCLA, Mikayla Blakes Vanderbilt and Rory Harmon Texas.

That is 9 players.
Frankly, Madison will be a lock on the list due to the current Texas success and her past inclusion on this team
Hidalgo will have gaudy stats simply because her team needs her to so she will be a lock on the list (yes, I know and am aware of the BY angst with HH but the fact is the media and other pundits highly value her).
Latson is now on a highly public team and is viewed as their "star" so she will be a factor. In my opinion, she is NOT a lock for the 1st team.

• Johnson from LSU is more sizzle than steak but if LSU has some key wins (like beating Texas/SC) and she is the key factor in those games, she will get publicity (and promotion from Mulkey).
• Olivia Miles already has 2 AA mentions (2nd team and HM) and is leading a good TCU team (albeit in a weak conference) so as TCU makes noise, Miles will get media attention. In my view, she will be a 2nd team AA member and on the WBCA team.
• Kiki Rice is leading player on a top Final Four contender, though I tend to think of other players on her own team more deserving. She is the point guard and a Senior so she will garner some attention. At this point, I view her more of an Honorable Mention candidate than serious contender.
• Mikayla Blakes on Vanderbilt will put up gaudy numbers and if Vandy surprises anyone like breaking into the top 4 in the SEC this year, she will get credit. As the media touted her as a viable candidate to Sarah's FOY award last year, which irked me to NO END as her stats we not that close to Sarah's. I have no doubt that some of those very same pundits will do the same this year. But to me, she's a 2nd or 3rd team AP AA. probable member of the 10 person WBCA team.
• Rory Harmon is looking really good right now and finally seems fully recovered from her knee injury and is shooting significantly better than she ever has and will Texas in the spot light, she will get attention. If she keeps it up, she's a 2nd or 3rd team AP AA.

My main point of this thread is:

• Azzi Fudd has recognition, shooting stats to support that, team recognition and is showing defensive chops as well. Geno will be touting her contributions to whoever will listen. But as I have outlined it will be interesting to see how the AP 5 team is comprised and how the WBCA 10 team will look.

At the moment, I put Azzi, Sarah, Madison, Hannah and Latson on my 5 member team. I know that is 4 guards and Sarah so I am not sure if the other voters will feel that way. Betts, to me, is vastly overrated but is the best POST player in the game right now so....If she is put on the team, I think Latson is at risk although Azzi could also be overlooked.

The metrics favor Azzi over both Booker and Latson right now but as I have said, the pundits do not always use metrics but use narratives.

I am cautiously optimistic at this point given how strong Azzi has started the season. I just wish she would cut down on her turnovers and increase her assists to get to a greater than 2 to 1 ration (currently at 28/16).

I know this board considers it heresy that Azzi would not be on the team but I am trying to look as logically at it as I can (but yes, I too am biased!).

I think your list is fine but I would take Latson off and replace her with Crooks or Betts. I just don’t see Latson on that top line. Now she may break out over the rest of the season but right now? I don’t see it.

 

[GamecockFam]

I think your list is fine but I would take Latson off and replace her with Crooks or Betts. I just don’t see Latson on that top line. Now she may break out over the rest of the season but right now? I don’t see it.

Latson has some really good stats to boost her resume. She has some of the most efficient stats of all high-scoring guards and is #9 in win shares. I think where she struggles is with the big time matchups, thus the debate. Once she has a big game against top 10 competition, I think she has a very strong argument for second team All-American at a minimum. I think that day is coming. I can see her getting better and more comfortable in the South Carolina system as each game passes.

 

[Cuango]

This Azzi debate is very interseting and embodies many of my thoughts on her as well. However, her performance both in the final four last season and what she is doing this season has really opened my eyes. Azzi has improved her overall game with drives, pull ups, steals etc. not to even mention her quickness and strength (I saw a picture of her here on the Boneyard and thought, “she looks like she could run through a wall!” ) but her shooting…. She has really separated herself from, basically everyone with her shooting! Yes, there are a few others who shoot very high percentages but none have the overall package that Azzi has.

I have consistently said that Dallas would be crazy not to take 1. Fam or 2. Betts as really good bigs are so hard to find. However, as the season goes on and I see Azzi continue to shoot 50%+ from three, I must admit, my formerly firm conviction is softening fast. For one thing, her shot is not only as close to perfect as you can get but her release is also elitely (Is that a word?) fast! I kept waiting for that percentage to come back down to mere mortal status but it didn’t! If this is her normal, then she is a weapon beyond compare. She can win a game in the space of a few minutes! That is hard to pass up if you are a coach or GM.