Pledge of allegiance at UConn games

[Ruffian75]

This is the first I've heard of this practice.
I certainly wouldn't feel "put-upon" by doing both but, I think doing just the Anthem at sporting events is fine.

That said, I continue to be shocked and saddened to hear that the Pledge of Allegiance is NOT RECITED in my grandson's grammer school class. Not even offered as an option.
'Splain me that one.

Very simple. It mixes church and state. IMO it is early brain washing also. I remember reciting it in early grtade school and not understanding what it meant. It becomes something that is ingrained.

 

[meyers7]

"One Nation, under God" is pretty religious --

I would disagree. But then I am looking at the whole pledge, which is to the flag and republic, not God.

especially if you believe in the concept of separation of church and state

Yes, I believe the state should stay out of church business.

 

[HuskyNan]

That said, I continue to be shocked and saddened to hear that the Pledge of Allegiance is NOT RECITED in my grandson's grammer school class. Not even offered as an option.
'Splain me that one.

I worked in a middle school where we had several children whose parents were immigrants from another country. They were also non-Christian. The students would stand for the pledge but not recite it, which enraged some teachers. So, the students had to come to the office during the pledge recitation in order to avoid any backlash. I felt so badly for those kids, only 11 or 12 years old having to go through that.

Several school districts have done away with the pledge to avoid situations like the above and other districts have been sued by families that object to the forced recitation of the pledge.

 

[Kibitzer]

This practice of facing the flag and placing our hand on our heart during the playing of the National Anthem is not some quaint notion of mine. It is embodied in the US Code. I invite anyone's attention to Public Law 829, Chapter 806, 77th Congress, 2nd Session. And, more specifically, 36 U.S.C. 172.

Recent legislation authorizes veterans (in or out of uniform) to render the hand salute. (Hand salute always ok for police officers, active duty service-people, etc.)

Though these practices have the force of law, there are no punishments prescribed for those who, for whatever reason, do not comply. Which makes these laws more like a guide than something rigidly compulsive. In other words, folks are encouraged, not coerced or threatened, which makes good sense to me.

I choose to not enter the discussion about the inclusion of "under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance because the people who have strong opinions about this -- one way or the other -- are not going to be swayed by anything I say, one way or the other.

 

[HuskyNan]

Please, everyone, don't cut and paste copyrighted material in its entirety to the Boneyard.

 

[meyers7]

Uconn being a "publicly funded state run institution" needs to leave out the religion and politics, those things are for individuals to accept or not accept and are not to be forced on citizens by a" state run publicly funded institution".

Well nothing is being "forced" on anyone. No one has to stand and say the pledge or sing the NA. And neither the pledge or the anthem are particularly religious. Political? Not Liberal, Conservative, Dem or Rep. I would say more nationalistic than political.

 

[HuskyNan]

Well nothing is being "forced" on anyone. No one has to stand and say the pledge or sing the NA. And neither the pledge or the anthem are particularly religious. Political? Not Liberal, Conservative, Dem or Rep. I would say more nationalistic than political.

Have you ever been at an event where a man hasn't removed his hat before the anthem and others in the crowd start shouting at him? I have, more times than I can count.

 

[pppggg]

Is the Lord's Prayer next?

I certainly wouldn't advocate saying the Lord's Prayer at a school event- that separation of church and state thing. I also seriously doubt that the school would consider doing it.

But I imagine you would feel different about the Pledge and the Lord’s Prayer if your son was on his 4th deployment to the sandbox, defending someone’s right to be condescending and arrogant about both of them.

 

[meyers7]

Have you ever been at an event where a man hasn't removed his hat before the anthem and others in the crowd start shouting at him? I have, more times than I can count.

And was he "forced" to take his hat off?

If he is free to disrespect the anthem/flag, then I think people should be free to express their displeasure with someone who does ( I probably wouldn't). But they would still have the freedom to continue their disrespect.

 

[codger]

The Pledge recitation is a good addition, IMO. Much better than the additions to the "official program" I really don't like, such as the wandering announcer doing interviews, the announcer doing "Now it's time for the U-C-O-N-N cheer", and the deafening noise of rap music over the loudspeakers.

 

[HuskyNan]

Have you ever been at an event where a man hasn't removed his hat before the anthem and others in the crowd start shouting at him? I have, more times than I can count.

And was he "forced" to take his hat off?

Not physically forced, but the weight of disapproval is, for many, a type of force. I know you don't see it as such but I wonder what your opinion would be if, say, you attended a house of worship that was outside your beliefs and didn't participate in their prayers and received glares from offended congregants. This happens to me every week, btw, as I'm a different faith from my husband but we attend his church. I've had more nasty looks because I've failed to participate in the mass. I've grown used to it after 20 years but it was quite intimidating for a long time.

 

[Icebear]

And was he "forced" to take his hat off?

If he is free to disrespect the anthem/flag, then I think people should be free to express their displeasure with someone who does ( I probably wouldn't). But they would still have the freedom to continue their disrespect.

It is not necessarily disrespecting anything. It can be done from deep personal religious conviction and one's respect for God within the precepts of one's faith.

 

[Artifact]

Having volunteered to serve my country for 2 years of life, with a great deal of responsibility; I for one was glad to serve. I am very proud of it. I am more than happy to sing the our National Anthem or Pledge Allegiance. If you decline to pledge or sing that is your right which I served to protect. As for God & Country, isn't their something about a "coin"?

 

[JimGunther]

I hate to sound like a "right winger" (which I am, of course) but, don't you see any irony here?
Parents came to this country and - the school - thinks they would object to the Pledge of Allegence?

If they are temporary residents (or religious objectors) why should they feel uncomfortable?

Religeous objection to the word, "God"? No particular brand (or endorsement of such) is implied.

Again, most immigrants seem happy - no ENTHUSIASTIC to pledge.

Sure, I think there should be no "forced" pledge or prayer but, if "God" is off-limits, we'll have to sustantially edit the founding documents - in the interest of not offending anyone.

I worked in a middle school where we had several children whose parents were immigrants from another country. They were also non-Christian. The students would stand for the pledge but not recite it, which enraged some teachers. So, the students had to come to the office during the pledge recitation in order to avoid any backlash. I felt so badly for those kids, only 11 or 12 years old having to go through that.

Several school districts have done away with the pledge to avoid situations like the above and other districts have been sued by families that object to the forced recitation of the pledge.

 

[meyers7]

Not physically forced, but the weight of disapproval is, for many, a type of force. I know you don't see it as such but I wonder what your opinion would be if, say, you attended a house of worship that was outside your beliefs and didn't participate in their prayers and received glares from offended congregants.

Been there done that, not a big deal. Actually I would feel bad participating in something I didn't believe in. (i.e. I don't take communion in a Catholic church, two different concepts) I just try to respect their beliefs and traditions.

Not asking someone to say the pledge or sing the anthem (or participate in prayers). But being respectful would be nice.

What would you think of someone who was talking on his cell phone during a funeral service? Nothing illegal about that, but I think most would find it disrespectful. And lot of people would probably mention it to him, and maybe even attempt to "force" (not physically) him to stop.

 

[meyers7]

It is not necessarily disrespecting anything.

Yea it is disrespectful. And particularly if it is your country. Even if it is not your NA, you can still be respectful of other countries anthems.

 

[Phil]

View attachment 301

I hadn't noticed that Jack Eisenman was in the line until this pick - I've seen him at many of the games, gave him grief about supporting Dayton in a bright red shirt, but it appears Nike issued a UConn shirt in red.

 

[Icebear]

Yea it is disrespectful. And particularly if it is your country. Even if it is not your NA, you can still be respectful of other countries anthems.

It is not disrespecting something at all to not participate. I am not suggesting a counter protest, just non-participation. In fact it is simply offering greater respect and homage to one's greater responsibility as a Quaker, Mennonite or faith of similar conviction to honor God above all manmade things including nations.

I did not suggest any bad behavior just not participating because it goes against one's core beliefs. There are numerous Christian groups that refuse to participate in public prayer with Jews, Muslim, or other faiths, some even refuse public prayer with other Christian groups with whom they do not share doctrinal unity. The Lutheran Church Missouri Synod suspended one of its own bishops for participating in post 9/11 public serivces at Yankee Stadium in NYC.

It may not be a big thing for the vast majority of us but that does not mean that it isn't a very very sincere and serious issue for others.

Of course, in my view it would have been more respectful if the US Congress had not co-opted Baptist pastor Rev. Francis Bellamy's "Pledge of Allegiance" and added words that he, Bellamy, specifically, chose not to include and do so over the objections of him and later his family. Bellamy had spoken at one time on why he had not included words similar to "under God" in the pledge. Bellamy had stated that it was so that the Pledge could unify people of every conviction under the umbrella of one nation. With those words now added it does exactly what he wished to avoid.

Many would likely refuse to use the pledge if they knew that Rev. Francis Bellamy was a Christian Socialist. That the words, "under God," are specifically religious in their content is obvious in the Knights of Columbus being the group who sought the action from congress.

 

[spoop]

At best the inclusion of the pledge is redundant next to the national anthem. I don't see any benefits to reciting it and it feels like McCarthy-istic brainwashing nationalism, although I do recite most of it at the games, force of habit from grade school I guess.

 

[Wonkster]

.
I can't wait for the Church of Geno, Inc., to sponsor a basketball tourney with Tennessee as one of the teams. Then we could ask even visiting Tennessee fans to pledge allegiance to the Flag Blue of the United States of Auriemma, etc.
.

 

[Icebear]

.
I can't wait for the Church of Geno, Inc., to sponsor a basketball tourney with Tennessee as one of the teams. Then we could ask even visiting Tennessee fans to pledge allegiance to the Flag Blue of the United States of Auriemma, etc.
.

Are you redefining the U S of A

 

[Cafe Poliziano]

Well nothing is being "forced" on anyone. No one has to stand and say the pledge or sing the NA. And neither the pledge or the anthem are particularly religious. Political? Not Liberal, Conservative, Dem or Rep. I would say more nationalistic than political.

Sure it is, the state run publicly funded institution is promoting christianity. The god part, It is that pesky portion of our constitution that the state may not promote any one religion over another... troublesome for many I know, but thats the American way. America works because we have a secular Government that is made up of people of multiple faiths / ideologies, that when working correctly compromises so as to attend to the many ideologies without holding one above another. Blah, blah, blah, I could go on but I will spare everyone the anguish. Townson then TAM right? I think the team may be on the verge of coming together more fully so to speak, we will need to be jelling when we walk onto the court in Waco so we can walk off the court as the winners.

GO UCONN !!!!!!!

 

[Vowelguy]

Hey, if you don't like it...don't participate...just stay in your seats. What's the big deal anyway...somebody thought it would be a good idea, a bunch of people support it by saying it and some people don't so they don't participate. That's how it is done in a free Constitutional Republic.

If that's the criteria, then why not have a cross burning? A live execution? I'm sure there are people out there who would like those too. I guess everyone else can just sit quietly and "not participate".

 

[temery]

What exactly was the impetus for this? I really don't have a strong opinion about it one way or another, but I'm not sure what the point is or why the national anthem wasn't considered a sufficient expression of unifying patriotism such that it was necessary to add the Pledge. Was there some event that inspired it? Was there a clamoring for it that the athletic dept was responding to?

Any insight at all??

I don't see this lasting very long.

 

[HuskyNan]

We've been doing pretty well having a philosophical discussion; could we please leave politics out of it?