Peter King MMQB on BC/Rutgers/UConn

[kobebeanbryant]

peter gets it:

k. Why is Rutgers in the Big Ten? Why is Boston College in the ACC?

l. I get BC, because of the Boston thing. It is absolutely bizarre that a university located in one of the great cities in America cannot win at the big sports. But why would the ACC powers say yes to BC and no to UConn? Those two schools could have built a great rivalry (they already hated each other) and made the ACC more than just the southern branch of the Atlantic coast.

m. Rutgers. Big Ten? I never got it. Just a dumb, over-reaching move by a conference begging for wider acceptance. And I lived in Jersey for 24 years—and love the place. But Rutgers in a league with Michigan, Ohio State and Penn State? Absurd. Nobody in New York City cares about Rutgers. Nobody.

 

[Stinger92860]

Many of the sports writers don't get it because they don't understand the economics and are not focused on facts beyond the field of play. This is like asking an economist to design a play.

 

[billybud]

Sports talk used to be about the field of play. Players, schemes, team strength, rivalries, etc....not DMA's, carriage, footprint vs out of footprint fees,

I expect, very soon, that the AP will come out and begin ranking the teams based on their athletic department revenue instead of field record....

Actually not that bad of a premise...17 of the last 18 national champs in football (excepting Miami) are in the 2014-15 $100 Million Club in athletic revenue.

 

[Chin Diesel]

Many of the sports writers don't get it because they don't understand the economics and are not focused on facts beyond the field of play. This is like asking an economist to design a play.

Truth be told an economics major would have a much better chance of designing a play, developing a game plan and calling out plays.

Everything in football is risk/reward, opportunity costs, sunk costs, efficiency ratings, and much more from the field of economics.

There are few educational backgrounds more relevant than economics for coaching and managing.

 

[CTMike]

Love him or hate him... He grew up in Enfield and has lived in CT, NY, and NJ (who knows where else... MA too at one point?)... Point is that gives him a pretty decent perspective on this. Kudos to him for mentioning it.

 

[Stinger92860]

Truth be told an economics major would have a much better chance of designing a play, developing a game plan and calling out plays.

Everything in football is risk/reward, opportunity costs, sunk costs, efficiency ratings, and much more from the field of economics.

There are few educational backgrounds more relevant than economics for coaching and managing.

I thought someone might respond with this, I just did not want dive into details. I suspect Friedman or Bevker would have made a hell of a football coach.

 

[SubbaBub]

Another I'll informed columnist spouting off and hitting the mark only ocassionally.

BC - Boston yes, but nobody in Boston cares. UCONN with BC or UCONN alone would have been better, and not because of BC.

RU - isn't King occasionally on TV? Doesn't he understand subscription fees? RU has been a home run for the BIG wallet. On the field doesn't matter because as he said no one cares.

Stay in your lane Pete.

 

[NickyNewark]

Peter King? You know what they say about opinions....and clicks..

 

[NYUConn]

Another I'll informed columnist spouting off and hitting the mark only ocassionally.

BC - Boston yes, but nobody in Boston cares. UCONN with BC or UCONN alone would have been better, and not because of BC.

RU - isn't King occasionally on TV? Doesn't he understand subscription fees? RU has been a home run for the BIG wallet. On the field doesn't matter because as he said no one cares.

Stay in your lane Pete.

I think he gets the economics that drove the decision to include, RU, he's just saying that they've been a disaster for the conference from an athletics perspective and in terms of eyeballs and fan base, people aren't tuning into B1G broadcasting for the Scarlet Knights.

He's not wrong about RU not having a huge following in NJ. I went to HS in North Jersey and Penn State was king in college football, followed by Notre Dame. I recently moved to Hoboken (probably need to update my sn) and I'll say that I see just as many UConn stickers on cars in town as I do RU (a surprising amount of Maryland decals too FWIW).

 

[pj]

Rutgers to the B1G made more sense than BC to the ACC. The ACC has always been behind the curve. And a victim of Notre Dame lust.

 

[SubbaBub]

While RU not laying giant eggs would be appreciated in the league office. It matters very little in the grand scheme.

B1G fans watch B1G games, it doesn't matter if the opponent is RU or Minnesota, neither is making any waves on the field.

 

[NYUConn]

While RU not laying giant eggs would be appreciated in the league office. It matters very little in the grand scheme.

B1G fans watch B1G games, it doesn't matter if the opponent is RU or Minnesota, neither is making any waves on the field.

To what I think is Peter King's point, if they were looking for a warm body inside the NYC DMA they could have done better than Rutgers. *Cough* UConn *Cough*

 

[DarthGrumpy]

He's not wrong about RU not having a huge following in NJ. I went to HS in North Jersey and Penn State was king in college football, followed by Notre Dame. I recently moved to Hoboken (probably need to update my sn) and I'll say that I see just as many UConn stickers on cars in town as I do RU (a surprising amount of Maryland decals too FWIW).

How do you like Hoboken? I used to work there and love it. Great town, good food scene, some of the best views in the world and its 15 minutes to NYC via PATH or Ferry. Only downside is that the city floods a lot. If I didn't have kids and a wife who grew-up in the sticks, I would live there.

I live in Bergen County now in a borough where many kids grow-up, move-out, and then move back in when they have families as it is one of the more 'affordable' towns (avg housing cost is mid $400's where the next town over its +$1 million) in North Jersey and has very good schools. Thus, we have a lot of folks who have roots going back 20/30/40 years. Rutgers is the king of the big schools here, which is no surprise considering the number or alumni in town, which includes a former Rutgers AD. Right behind Rutgers is Penn St. After those two, its a large gap to a pool of teams such as ND, BC (BC was big recruiting wise at the Catholic high schools back 10/20 years ago) and Syracuse (see BC less the Catholic HS link, not so much now). I have been surprised by the number of VT and Clemson fans in town, too. Michigan, Ohio St & Michigan St are gaining popularity right now. After those, its random schools, like UConn (me) and guy I coach baseball with is a Kentucky fan as he spent a decade in the Army based in Kentucky (Knox or Campbel, can't remember) before moving back home to be a school principal.

 

[CL82]

He's not wrong about RU not having a huge following in NJ. I went to HS in North Jersey and Penn State was king in college football, followed by Notre Dame. I recently moved to Hoboken (probably need to update my sn) and I'll say that I see just as many UConn stickers on cars in town as I do RU (a surprising amount of Maryland decals too FWIW).

I've been saying this for years. I will say that since the move to the B1G, RU does have a more visible presence in NJ. Still, as I am fond of noting, you can't go to an AAU BB tournament without hearing at least one coach calling out "UConn" for a play. I've yet to hear someone call out "Rutgers."

 

[NYUConn]

How do you like Hoboken? I used to work there and love it. Great town, good food scene, some of the best views in the world and its 15 minutes to NYC via PATH or Ferry. Only downside is that the city floods a lot. If I didn't have kids and a wife who grew-up in the sticks, I would live there.

I live in Bergen County now in a borough where many kids grow-up, move-out, and then move back in when they have families as it is one of the more 'affordable' towns (avg housing cost is mid $400's where the next town over its +$1 million) in North Jersey and has very good schools. Thus, we have a lot of folks who have roots going back 20/30/40 years. Rutgers is the king of the big schools here, which is no surprise considering the number or alumni in town, which includes a former Rutgers AD. Right behind Rutgers is Penn St. After those two, its a large gap to a pool of teams such as ND, BC (BC was big recruiting wise at the Catholic high schools back 10/20 years ago) and Syracuse (see BC less the Catholic HS link, not so much now). I have been surprised by the number of VT and Clemson fans in town, too. Michigan, Ohio St & Michigan St are gaining popularity right now. After those, its random schools, like UConn (me) and guy I coach baseball with is a Kentucky fan as he spent a decade in the Army based in Kentucky (Knox or Campbel, can't remember) before moving back home to be a school principal.

I like Hoboken and I didn't think I would to be honest. My fiance owned her place here and I was still renting in the village when my lease expired, so it was kind of a no brainer that I would move to Hobo a little over a year ago. You're right it's super convenient to NYC, where I still work, and food scene is pretty strong.

It's funny to hear you say that about Bergen Country. I grew up on the border of Bergen and Passaic county and when I was young it was Penn State first, Notre Dame second then RU a distant 3rd. Guess a generation of investing in the football program and the Big Ten move is helping up there a lot.

 

[Dooley]

Whether or not he's right or wrong, the premise is spot on: if schools with train wreck level athletics like BC and RU are in P5 conferences, why in the holy hot he11 is UConn stuck in the AAC??

 

[NickyNewark]

Check out Lax,Wrestling and M and W Soccer right now all ranked...Lear Cup standings.....looking better at this time...but your right Dooley...you deserve better...lets see what happens this May/June...hang in there..

 

[NickyNewark]

I think he gets the economics that drove the decision to include, RU, he's just saying that they've been a disaster for the conference from an athletics perspective and in terms of eyeballs and fan base, people aren't tuning into B1G broadcasting for the Scarlet Knights.

He's not wrong about RU not having a huge following in NJ. I went to HS in North Jersey and Penn State was king in college football, followed by Notre Dame. I recently moved to Hoboken (probably need to update my sn) and I'll say that I see just as many UConn stickers on cars in town as I do RU (a surprising amount of Maryland decals too FWIW).

lol.....really on the stickers......

 

[Chuck]

I like Hoboken and I didn't think I would to be honest. My fiance owned her place here and I was still renting in the village when my lease expired, so it was kind of a no brainer that I would move to Hobo a little over a year ago. You're right it's super convenient to NYC, where I still work, and food scene is pretty strong.

It's funny to hear you say that about Bergen Country. I grew up on the border of Bergen and Passaic county and when I was young it was Penn State first, Notre Dame second then RU a distant 3rd. Guess a generation of investing in the football program and the Big Ten move is helping up there a lot.

Grew up in Passaic (near Bergen) and now live in Bergen. Spent 10 years in Hoboken. Hoboken has changed a lot since I moved out in 2003. There are a lot more families now as opposed to just 20 somethings. I can't believe some of the restaurants are still there. I'm also a UConn grad with an RU grad degree. There is no question that RU was non-existent when it came to college sports when I grew up ('89 HS grad). There's also no question that they have done a good job over the past 15 years or so of growing the brand.

RU will never "own" NYC. I like my home state, but nobody is going to pick a NJ school as their passion. The Jets and Giants attract NYC fans, but they are the only options and have decades of history as NYC residents. The Devils and Red Bulls don't attract NY fans, and the Nets left town. NYC will never be "owned" by a college football team. I don't care who the most popular teams are, nobody in Manhattan that didn't go to one of those schools would pay specifically to have a channel cover them. Maybe ND has enough juice in the outer boroughs. The same goes for college basketball. UConn and Syracuse have a following, and both do well at MSG because of access to alums. RU would do just as well if they were good. The only school that New Yorkers have really adopted as "New York's Team" is St. John's. Yuk, but that's what I saw growing up.

RU doesn't have to own NYC, however. Unlike UConn, the school is in the NYC DMA. I actually think that's something that NJ struggles with. You are a second class citizen for your programming from either NYC or Philly. Also, the piece that is in the NYC DMA is much more populated than Fairfield County. So the NYC market is great, but NJ (both north, central, and south) is a huge market in and of itself.

 

[NYUConn]

lol.....really on the stickers.

I never said it was anything more than anecdotal.

Maybe you prefer the Facebook data published in the NY Times that shows Penn State is the most popular team in Hoboken and Jersey City and for most of Bergen County?

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/10/03/upshot/ncaa-football-map.html#10,40.958,-74.130

 

[DarthGrumpy]

I like Hoboken and I didn't think I would to be honest. My fiance owned her place here and I was still renting in the village when my lease expired, so it was kind of a no brainer that I would move to Hobo a little over a year ago. You're right it's super convenient to NYC, where I still work, and food scene is pretty strong.

It's funny to hear you say that about Bergen Country. I grew up on the border of Bergen and Passaic county and when I was young it was Penn State first, Notre Dame second then RU a distant 3rd. Guess a generation of investing in the football program and the Big Ten move is helping up there a lot.

Glad you like Hoboken.

Just my own opinion; But, I find more Rutgers fans in my borough than the neighboring ones because its less well off than the neighboring towns, thus fewer students going to private schools and out-of-state flagships, and while some do go to Rutgers, a lot more go to Ramapo, William Patterson, Montclair St, etc. and those alum seem to gravitate to Rutgers with respect to their sports allegiance. Similar to what I remember in CT when UConn's sports brand grew, a lot of local SCSU, CCSU, WCSU & ECSU alum gravitated to the Huskies.

 

[NYUConn]

Glad you like Hoboken.

Just my own opinion; But, I find more Rutgers fans in my borough than the neighboring ones because its less well off than the neighboring towns, thus fewer students going to private schools and out-of-state flagships, and while some do go to Rutgers, a lot more go to Ramapo, William Patterson, Montclair St, etc. and those alum seem to gravitate to Rutgers with respect to their sports allegiance. Similar to what I remember in CT when UConn's sports brand grew, a lot of local SCSU, CCSU, WCSU & ECSU alum gravitated to the Huskies.

I think that's pretty spot on. If you look at the map I shared with Nicky above, a lot of the more affluent parts of Bergen are still Penn State territory but as you get closer to Passaic County and Patterson those towns are a lot more RU.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

I never said it was anything more than anecdotal.

Maybe you prefer the Facebook data published in the NY Times that shows Penn State is the most popular team in Hoboken and Jersey City and for most of Bergen County?

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/10/03/upshot/ncaa-football-map.html#10,40.958,-74.130

No surprise about Hoboken. The city is at least 50% transplants nowadays from suburban Jersey, NYC and everywhere else. Basically, West Brooklyn. My borough shows an even 3-way split at 9% between Rutgers, Penn St & ND. No surprise there either.

 

[CL82]

Grew up in Passaic (near Bergen) and now live in Bergen. Spent 10 years in Hoboken. Hoboken has changed a lot since I moved out in 2003. There are a lot more families now as opposed to just 20 somethings. I can't believe some of the restaurants are still there. I'm also a UConn grad with an RU grad degree. There is no question that RU was non-existent when it came to college sports when I grew up ('89 HS grad). There's also no question that they have done a good job over the past 15 years or so of growing the brand.

RU will never "own" NYC. I like my home state, but nobody is going to pick a NJ school as their passion. The Jets and Giants attract NYC fans, but they are the only options and have decades of history as NYC residents. The Devils and Red Bulls don't attract NY fans, and the Nets left town. NYC will never be "owned" by a college football team. I don't care who the most popular teams are, nobody in Manhattan that didn't go to one of those schools would pay specifically to have a channel cover them. Maybe ND has enough juice in the outer boroughs. The same goes for college basketball. UConn and Syracuse have a following, and both do well at MSG because of access to alums. RU would do just as well if they were good. The only school that New Yorkers have really adopted as "New York's Team" is St. John's. Yuk, but that's what I saw growing up.

RU doesn't have to own NYC, however. Unlike UConn, the school is in the NYC DMA. I actually think that's something that NJ struggles with. You are a second class citizen for your programming from either NYC or Philly. Also, the piece that is in the NYC DMA is much more populated than Fairfield County. So the NYC market is great, but NJ (both north, central, and south) is a huge market in and of itself.

I was amazed that NYC DMA extends all the way down to New Brunswick.

 

[NickyNewark]

Grew up in Passaic (near Bergen) and now live in Bergen. Spent 10 years in Hoboken. Hoboken has changed a lot since I moved out in 2003. There are a lot more families now as opposed to just 20 somethings. I can't believe some of the restaurants are still there. I'm also a UConn grad with an RU grad degree. There is no question that RU was non-existent when it came to college sports when I grew up ('89 HS grad). There's also no question that they have done a good job over the past 15 years or so of growing the brand.

RU will never "own" NYC. I like my home state, but nobody is going to pick a NJ school as their passion. The Jets and Giants attract NYC fans, but they are the only options and have decades of history as NYC residents. The Devils and Red Bulls don't attract NY fans, and the Nets left town. NYC will never be "owned" by a college football team. I don't care who the most popular teams are, nobody in Manhattan that didn't go to one of those schools would pay specifically to have a channel cover them. Maybe ND has enough juice in the outer boroughs. The same goes for college basketball. UConn and Syracuse have a following, and both do well at MSG because of access to alums. RU would do just as well if they were good. The only school that New Yorkers have really adopted as "New York's Team" is St. John's. Yuk, but that's what I saw growing up.

RU doesn't have to own NYC, however. Unlike UConn, the school is in the NYC DMA. I actually think that's something that NJ struggles with. You are a second class citizen for your programming from either NYC or Philly. Also, the piece that is in the NYC DMA is much more populated than Fairfield County. So the NYC market is great, but NJ (both north, central, and south) is a huge market in and of itself.

Spot on ....NJ alone DWARF's the Boston Demo......9M to what?? under 1M easy? NYC nonwithstanding...