Perspective | Page 2 | The Boneyard

Perspective

Mr. French said:
I don't have a problem with the overall point, and you're not the type of poster that needs to be "called out" I just think that gets WAY overplayed, especially nationally.

I think there are plenty of times where Calipari has the wrong mix of talented kids, or they lose a bunch of head scratchers mid season, or they Peter out in the tourney, comparative to their ridiculous talent level.

I think Calipari gets way more credit from some than he deserves. Is he clueless or a "bad coach?" No, not really, but I don't think his coaching is anything to be envious of.
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I don't know. I just look at some of the UConn teams that had 3-4 year players and could not gel talent wise or worse yet seemed to have chemistry issues. I can't think of any UK teams that have had that. Just going off of UK years, 7 years, 4 final fours and a final 8.

Don't want to further derail. I think Cal is a slimeball but think he is unfairly criticized for somehow running a dominant program and being a "bad" coach.
 
Mr. French said:
I think Calipari gets way more credit from some than he deserves. Is he clueless or a "bad coach?" No, not really, but I don't think his coaching is anything to be envious of.
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I'm sure plenty of NCAA coaches envy the fact that he is one of the two coaches in the history of basketball to take 3 programs to the Final Four.

I'm sure Calhoun envies the fact Calipari made it to the Final Four four out of the six times he had 1 seed, whereas Calhoun only managed to make it twice with five 1 seeds.
 
ConnHuskBask said:
If by peak of their success you mean facing a NCAA post season ban, scholarship sanctions and leaving the best basketball conference of all time and transitioning to the AAC, then sure, I agree with you.

Also, this notion that inheriting a top program somehow erases the need for experience is bizarre. You could coach High School or Jordan's Bulls. It doesn't change that it's you're first time as a head coach.
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Calhoun and Coach K essentially had to build their programs up from the very bottom, that's excusable. Even during the ban/sanctions/conference change we had won 3 national championships in the last 15 years when KO entered, we were established as a powerhouse. I'm not buying the KO inexperience, 13 seasons in the NBA being coached by HOFers his whole life, spent enough time on the bench with Calhoun, I think he had somewhat of a handle on it sliding to head coach. He won the NC his first year for god's sake!

Still say it's closer to apples and oranges with the first 3 year comparison where the schools/coaches were at their respective times.
 
The OP is nonsense. JC was already a great coach when he got here. Halfway through his 1st year at UConn, his best 2 players flunked off the team. The Boston Herald wrote at the time, "If Robinson and Gamble are declared ineligible, the team UConn puts on the floor Tuesday at BC will be the worst team in Big East history." UConn won by 6.
 
Why should I listen to a Moran like the OP

morans.jpg
 
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Lets not bring down the Iconic Hall of Famer Jim Calhoun by comparing him to Kevin Ollie.
 
InKembaITrust said:
Calhoun and Coach K essentially had to build their programs up from the very bottom, that's excusable. Even during the ban/sanctions/conference change we had won 3 national championships in the last 15 years when KO entered, we were established as a powerhouse. I'm not buying the KO inexperience, 13 seasons in the NBA being coached by HOFers his whole life, spent enough time on the bench with Calhoun, I think he had somewhat of a handle on it sliding to head coach. He won the NC his first year for god's sake!

Still say it's closer to apples and oranges with the first 3 year comparison where the schools/coaches were at their respective times.
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You can't say the italicized comment. We didn't win the championships going through those sanctions/bans/conference change. We won the titles and then right as KO started the bad stuff began.

You don't buy that a guy who was in the NBA (as a player) and then spent two years as assistant coach, isn't experienced? I'm guessing by now you consider him a seasoned veteran?

KO has not been perfect and in fact he has aggravated the hell out of me at times, but from the same fanbase that fights tooth and nail to say Calhoun was one of the greatest and put a litany of all time coaches beneath him, it's funny that we hold our 5th year head coach to his standards.
 
JC did something amazing, building a regional program into a national powerhouse. JC had more grit and determination and will to win than any other coach in college history. He was also one of the all-time great judges of talent.

But I believe KO, if he keeps at coaching as long as JC did, will finish his coaching career with more wins and more championships. He is special. JC's last gift to us was KO.
 
I understand the point people make about how KO is new to coaching, there's a learning curve, etc.

My question is: why does a program with a 20-year history of dominance turn to somebody who has so little experience and for whom excuses are still having to be made in Year 5? If we're a big-time program, we should act like it.
 
Tenspro2002 said:
I understand the point people make about how KO is new to coaching, there's a learning curve, etc.

My question is: why does a program with a 20-year history of dominance turn to somebody who has so little experience and for whom excuses are still having to be made in Year 5? If we're a big-time program, we should act like it.
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Because the man responsible for that dominance decided it would be so.
 
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The logic in OP's original post is completely flawed. KO got hired to take over the reigns of program that had had more success in the fifteen previous years than any other, with maybe one or two exceptions. If you get the privilege of inheriting a program of that caliber your leash is that much shorter. Yes, KO can and should be forgiven for some coaching mistakes that he makes due to his lack of head coaching experience. To be comparing him to these other coaches at these types of programs is a total joke though. Like spiderman said, with great power comes great responsibility. I think KO is a good coach and only get better, but completely obstinate nuts on this board who refuse to acknowledge any criticism of KO and view him with only rose tinted glasses are just wrong.
 
Tenspro2002 said:
I understand the point people make about how KO is new to coaching, there's a learning curve, etc.

My question is: why does a program with a 20-year history of dominance turn to somebody who has so little experience and for whom excuses are still having to be made in Year 5?
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This is a tremendously ironic post to make in a thread titled "perspective."

If we're a big-time program, we should act like it.
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What would you suggest?
 
PAHusky said:
The logic in OP's original post is completely flawed. KO got hired to take over the reigns of program that had had more success in the fifteen previous years than any other, with maybe one or two exceptions. If you get the privilege of inheriting a program of that caliber your leash is that much shorter. Yes, KO can and should be forgiven for some coaching mistakes that he makes due to his lack of head coaching experience. To be comparing him to these other coaches at these types of programs is a total joke though. Like spiderman said, with great power comes great responsibility. I think KO is a good coach and only get better, but completely obstinate nuts on this board who refuse to acknowledge any criticism of KO and view him with only rose tinted glasses are just wrong.
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Compensating for the value of the UConn brand is (a) the sanctions and recruiting limits and (b) the effects of a de facto conference downgrade from the best college bball conference to the 7th or so, with the associated loss of exposure and money.

Considering those a wash, how has KO done compared to the average first-time coach? Darn well. Unless you think winning a national championship and a 7-1 NCAA tourney record is small potatoes.
 
There is a lot of revisionist history regarding what this program looked like - perception wise - when Calhoun stepped down. KO inherited an MAAC caliber front court, a lanky forward coming off a freshman season in which he barely played, and two undersized guards with a known history of feuding. The recruiting class was very thin, and would become even thinner after the one blue chip - Omar Calhoun - maxed out as a freshman because of hip problems. Not to mention, he served his first semester on a somewhat unprecedented one year contract, with the ghost of recruiting and APR mishaps of the recent past looming at every turn.

It wasn't just a segment of people that forecasted the programs demise, it was a damn near consensus. There was nothing about the job that was particularly attractive, and the absolute best we would have done - Shaka Smart - is in even tougher waters now than Ollie is.

There is plenty to quibble with over the last three years. But as long as the earth keeps time you cannot describe his first two seasons as anything but some of the best coaching you'll ever - and I don't use that word lightly - see.
 
champs99and04 said:
There is a lot of revisionist history regarding what this program looked like - perception wise - when Calhoun stepped down. KO inherited an MAAC caliber front court, a lanky forward coming off a freshman season in which he barely played, and two undersized guards with a known history of feuding. The recruiting class was very thin, and would become even thinner after the one blue chip - Omar Calhoun - maxed out as a freshman because of hip problems. Not to mention, he served his first semester on a somewhat unprecedented one year contract, with the ghost of recruiting and APR mishaps of the recent past looming at every turn.

It wasn't just a segment of people that forecasted the programs demise, it was a damn near consensus. There was nothing about the job that was particularly attractive, and the absolute best we would have done - Shaka Smart - is in even tougher waters now than Ollie is.

There is plenty to quibble with over the last three years. But as long as the earth keeps time you cannot describe his first two seasons as anything but some of the best coaching you'll ever - and I don't use that word lightly - see.
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Nah, I'm with Tenspro. Popovich was the play and Warde blew it.
 
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Tenspro2002 said:
A national search. At least give the impression that we're not desperate.
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We should announce we're embarking upon a national search to replace our national championship-winning coach who's averaged 25-ish wins a year, has never missed the postseason and brought in a Top 10 recruiting class this season?

Is that what you're suggesting as a way to convey that we're a serious basketball school?
 
Matrim55 said:
We should announce we're embarking upon a national search to replace our national championship-winning coach who's averaged 25-ish wins a year, has never missed the postseason and brought in a Top 10 recruiting class this season?

Is that what you're suggesting as a way to convey that we're a serious basketball school?
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Middle of the pack AAC team since Ollie has coached us and going to have the worst record at UConn in 30 years. Don't agree with anyone saying it's time to move on from Ollie or a national search, also don't really agree with how you are framing things. Our national perception has been taking a hit lately and rightfully so.
 
superjohn said:
Our national perception has been taking a hit lately and rightfully so.
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Between our 2016 & 2017 recruiting classes (two classes) we'll add at least eight, and possibly 10 4-star players. From 2012 through 2015 (four classes), we landed six.

Seems to me our national perception among the people that matter is going in the right direct despite this year's record. And generally, good recruits beget good seasons.
 
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Matrim55 said:
Between our 2016 & 2017 recruiting classes (two classes) we'll add at least eight, and possibly 10 4-star players. From 2012 through 2015 (four classes), we landed six.

Seems to me our national perception among the people that matter is going in the right direct despite this year's record. And generally, good recruits beget good seasons.
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I hope these players really are 4 star but these ratings seem suspect especially on BBIQ. We'll see next year but we need 4-5 star heads out there, guys that can think, smart players.
 
I think it's possible that KO can both have had an otherworldly first two years and a completely subpar last few. The sanctions year and the national championship year were the product of great coaching on his part and incredible college talent. These last few years, it just seems like he's missed on some recruits whose high school accolades haven't come anywhere near to panning out. It also seems like he seems, for reasons both in and out of his control, miss on recruiting and/or developing front court players. His attitude and in game coaching were huge factors that led to his success the first few years, but this year especially (and again, taken into account the hand he's been dealt) both of those have been lacking in a big way. Hopefully his recruits/player development start panning out again and he gets us back on the right track, as the program's margin for error in the AAC is razor thin
 
jibsey said:
I hope these players really are 4 star but these ratings seem suspect especially on BBIQ. We'll see next year but we need 4-5 star heads out there, guys that can think, smart players.
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Who from the 2016 recruits have demonstrated a low BBIQ? Vital & Jackson are savvy as hell, Durham looks good in limited minutes, and both Gilbert & Larrier were sharp before the injuries.

We haven't seen the other guys (Diarra, MAL, Polley or Carlton) yet.

CTBasketball said:
View attachment 19552
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This is a ridiculous graph given that you're comparing Ollie's half-season win total with full-season win totals.
 
Matrim55 said:
Who from the 2016 recruits have demonstrated a low BBIQ? Vital & Jackson are savvy as hell, Durham looks good in limited minutes, and both Gilbert & Larrier were sharp before the injuries.

We haven't seen the other guys (Diarra, MAL, Polley or Carlton) yet.


This is a ridiculous graph given that you're comparing Ollie's half-season win total with full-season win totals.
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We're not winning more than 15 games this year. So you can bump it up to where Calhoun's min was.
 
Matrim55 said:
Who from the 2016 recruits have demonstrated a low BBIQ? Vital & Jackson are savvy as hell, Durham looks good in limited minutes, and both Gilbert & Larrier were sharp before the injuries.

We haven't seen the other guys (Diarra, MAL, Polley or Carlton) yet.


This is a ridiculous graph given that you're comparing Ollie's half-season win total with full-season win totals.
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The incoming class is a disappointment. We went from thinking we were getting Diallo and maybe a Bamba, Obiagu and or Hammonds to a class of MAL and the 135th and 177th ranked players in the country. This past class is legit but with injuries it has only been a 2 person class for this season not counting Durham's 1.5 ppg and 1.5 rebs.
 
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