Perspective

[Matrim55]

Boeheim overcame sanctions and moving to weaker conference.

In Boeheim's second year after the sanctions hit, he made the Final 4. In our second year, we won the title.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

Like the optimism, but I'm sorry this is pretty close to apples and oranges. Sure Ollie is still a pretty inexperienced head coach, but he inherited a blue blood program at the peak of their success from a coach who's a living legend. Where was Duke in the early 80s and Uconn in the mid 80s? UMass is an afterthought.

I don't want this to be taken the wrong way as I'm always in Ollie's corner, and feel he's done some great things his first 3 seasons. But I'm not buying the first 3 season comparison putting into perspective where these programs were on a national stage when these coaches started.

If by peak of their success you mean facing a NCAA post season ban, scholarship sanctions and leaving the best basketball conference of all time and transitioning to the AAC, then sure, I agree with you.

Also, this notion that inheriting a top program somehow erases the need for experience is bizarre. You could coach High School or Jordan's Bulls. It doesn't change that it's you're first time as a head coach.

 

[boog204]

@boog204 I never mentioned that KO doesn't deserve any blame for this year's performance. My point was to put all blame aside and just look at the numbers. I agree with you that KO can do much better and I think he will. Which is why I brought up the point that there seems to be a learning curve. I know this comparison has a lot of flaws and it isn't counting JC''s or K''s first legitimate season's but it definitely gives people something to think about.
Also I'm 27 years old. I wasn't around for JC''s first few seasons at Uconn. So I do not know exactly what he inherented. You are probably right in that JC inherented less talent but we both know KO walked into some difficult circumstances from the beginning as well. All of your points make sense though and I don't disagree.

We can't deny that thus far KO has been a great hire. Cast all of the "Fire KO" idiots out. He has earned a crappy year. I think some of the more critical KO posters are upset with the periodic mediocre product we have seen over the last 3 years.

We know that KO can recruit, now we truly get to see what he can do with his talent. I'll never subscribe to the "he won with JCs players narrative," however, his player development rep is still in question.

 

[Mr. French]

As a whole, during his one and done factory run, his teams have played unselfishly. Is that not accurate?

I don't have a problem with the overall point, and you're not the type of poster that needs to be "called out" I just think that gets WAY overplayed, especially nationally.

I think there are plenty of times where Calipari has the wrong mix of talented kids, or they lose a bunch of head scratchers mid season, or they Peter out in the tourney, comparative to their ridiculous talent level.

I think Calipari gets way more credit from some than he deserves. Is he clueless or a "bad coach?" No, not really, but I don't think his coaching is anything to be envious of.

 

[Travelman6]

Calhoun tanked in year 7 when we went 1-8 down the stretch and finished at 15-13 overall with a team that had 3 first round picks, two other future NBA guys and a host of other 4-star recruits. And that was a down year for the Big East -- the worst year in conference history. Just 3 tourney teams, and none made it to the 2nd weekend.

Is it even possible to ¨tank¨ in College ball? There is not even anything to gain...

 

[boog204]

I don't have a problem with the overall point, and you're not the type of poster that needs to be "called out" I just think that gets WAY overplayed, especially nationally.

I think there are plenty of times where Calipari has the wrong mix of talented kids, or they lose a bunch of head scratchers mid season, or they Peter out in the tourney, comparative to their ridiculous talent level.

I think Calipari gets way more credit from some than he deserves. Is he clueless or a "bad coach?" No, not really, but I don't think his coaching is anything to be envious of.

I don't know. I just look at some of the UConn teams that had 3-4 year players and could not gel talent wise or worse yet seemed to have chemistry issues. I can't think of any UK teams that have had that. Just going off of UK years, 7 years, 4 final fours and a final 8.

Don't want to further derail. I think Cal is a slimeball but think he is unfairly criticized for somehow running a dominant program and being a "bad" coach.

 

[Brochacho]

I think Calipari gets way more credit from some than he deserves. Is he clueless or a "bad coach?" No, not really, but I don't think his coaching is anything to be envious of.

I'm sure plenty of NCAA coaches envy the fact that he is one of the two coaches in the history of basketball to take 3 programs to the Final Four.

I'm sure Calhoun envies the fact Calipari made it to the Final Four four out of the six times he had 1 seed, whereas Calhoun only managed to make it twice with five 1 seeds.

 

[Matrim55]

Is it even possible to ¨tank¨ in College ball? There is not even anything to gain....

That was the word choice of the fellow I was responding to.

 

[InKembaITrust]

If by peak of their success you mean facing a NCAA post season ban, scholarship sanctions and leaving the best basketball conference of all time and transitioning to the AAC, then sure, I agree with you.

Also, this notion that inheriting a top program somehow erases the need for experience is bizarre. You could coach High School or Jordan's Bulls. It doesn't change that it's you're first time as a head coach.

Calhoun and Coach K essentially had to build their programs up from the very bottom, that's excusable. Even during the ban/sanctions/conference change we had won 3 national championships in the last 15 years when KO entered, we were established as a powerhouse. I'm not buying the KO inexperience, 13 seasons in the NBA being coached by HOFers his whole life, spent enough time on the bench with Calhoun, I think he had somewhat of a handle on it sliding to head coach. He won the NC his first year for god's sake!

Still say it's closer to apples and oranges with the first 3 year comparison where the schools/coaches were at their respective times.

 

[Waquoit]

The OP is nonsense. JC was already a great coach when he got here. Halfway through his 1st year at UConn, his best 2 players flunked off the team. The Boston Herald wrote at the time, "If Robinson and Gamble are declared ineligible, the team UConn puts on the floor Tuesday at BC will be the worst team in Big East history." UConn won by 6.

 

[Rocktheworld]

Why should I listen to a Moran like the OP

 

[RJScootin]

Lets not bring down the Iconic Hall of Famer Jim Calhoun by comparing him to Kevin Ollie.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

Calhoun and Coach K essentially had to build their programs up from the very bottom, that's excusable. Even during the ban/sanctions/conference change we had won 3 national championships in the last 15 years when KO entered, we were established as a powerhouse. I'm not buying the KO inexperience, 13 seasons in the NBA being coached by HOFers his whole life, spent enough time on the bench with Calhoun, I think he had somewhat of a handle on it sliding to head coach. He won the NC his first year for god's sake!

Still say it's closer to apples and oranges with the first 3 year comparison where the schools/coaches were at their respective times.

You can't say the italicized comment. We didn't win the championships going through those sanctions/bans/conference change. We won the titles and then right as KO started the bad stuff began.

You don't buy that a guy who was in the NBA (as a player) and then spent two years as assistant coach, isn't experienced? I'm guessing by now you consider him a seasoned veteran?

KO has not been perfect and in fact he has aggravated the hell out of me at times, but from the same fanbase that fights tooth and nail to say Calhoun was one of the greatest and put a litany of all time coaches beneath him, it's funny that we hold our 5th year head coach to his standards.

 

[pj]

JC did something amazing, building a regional program into a national powerhouse. JC had more grit and determination and will to win than any other coach in college history. He was also one of the all-time great judges of talent.

But I believe KO, if he keeps at coaching as long as JC did, will finish his coaching career with more wins and more championships. He is special. JC's last gift to us was KO.

 

[Matrim55]

Calhoun and Coach K essentially had to build their programs up from the very bottom, that's excusable.

This is incorrect. K inherited a team that'd been on a 3-year tear.

 

[Tenspro2002]

I understand the point people make about how KO is new to coaching, there's a learning curve, etc.

My question is: why does a program with a 20-year history of dominance turn to somebody who has so little experience and for whom excuses are still having to be made in Year 5? If we're a big-time program, we should act like it.

 

[Brochacho]

I understand the point people make about how KO is new to coaching, there's a learning curve, etc.

My question is: why does a program with a 20-year history of dominance turn to somebody who has so little experience and for whom excuses are still having to be made in Year 5? If we're a big-time program, we should act like it.

Because the man responsible for that dominance decided it would be so.

 

[PAHusky]

The logic in OP's original post is completely flawed. KO got hired to take over the reigns of program that had had more success in the fifteen previous years than any other, with maybe one or two exceptions. If you get the privilege of inheriting a program of that caliber your leash is that much shorter. Yes, KO can and should be forgiven for some coaching mistakes that he makes due to his lack of head coaching experience. To be comparing him to these other coaches at these types of programs is a total joke though. Like spiderman said, with great power comes great responsibility. I think KO is a good coach and only get better, but completely obstinate nuts on this board who refuse to acknowledge any criticism of KO and view him with only rose tinted glasses are just wrong.

 

[Matrim55]

I understand the point people make about how KO is new to coaching, there's a learning curve, etc.

My question is: why does a program with a 20-year history of dominance turn to somebody who has so little experience and for whom excuses are still having to be made in Year 5?

This is a tremendously ironic post to make in a thread titled "perspective."

If we're a big-time program, we should act like it.

What would you suggest?

 

[pj]

The logic in OP's original post is completely flawed. KO got hired to take over the reigns of program that had had more success in the fifteen previous years than any other, with maybe one or two exceptions. If you get the privilege of inheriting a program of that caliber your leash is that much shorter. Yes, KO can and should be forgiven for some coaching mistakes that he makes due to his lack of head coaching experience. To be comparing him to these other coaches at these types of programs is a total joke though. Like spiderman said, with great power comes great responsibility. I think KO is a good coach and only get better, but completely obstinate nuts on this board who refuse to acknowledge any criticism of KO and view him with only rose tinted glasses are just wrong.

Compensating for the value of the UConn brand is (a) the sanctions and recruiting limits and (b) the effects of a de facto conference downgrade from the best college bball conference to the 7th or so, with the associated loss of exposure and money.

Considering those a wash, how has KO done compared to the average first-time coach? Darn well. Unless you think winning a national championship and a 7-1 NCAA tourney record is small potatoes.

 

[champs99and04]

There is a lot of revisionist history regarding what this program looked like - perception wise - when Calhoun stepped down. KO inherited an MAAC caliber front court, a lanky forward coming off a freshman season in which he barely played, and two undersized guards with a known history of feuding. The recruiting class was very thin, and would become even thinner after the one blue chip - Omar Calhoun - maxed out as a freshman because of hip problems. Not to mention, he served his first semester on a somewhat unprecedented one year contract, with the ghost of recruiting and APR mishaps of the recent past looming at every turn.

It wasn't just a segment of people that forecasted the programs demise, it was a damn near consensus. There was nothing about the job that was particularly attractive, and the absolute best we would have done - Shaka Smart - is in even tougher waters now than Ollie is.

There is plenty to quibble with over the last three years. But as long as the earth keeps time you cannot describe his first two seasons as anything but some of the best coaching you'll ever - and I don't use that word lightly - see.

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

There is a lot of revisionist history regarding what this program looked like - perception wise - when Calhoun stepped down. KO inherited an MAAC caliber front court, a lanky forward coming off a freshman season in which he barely played, and two undersized guards with a known history of feuding. The recruiting class was very thin, and would become even thinner after the one blue chip - Omar Calhoun - maxed out as a freshman because of hip problems. Not to mention, he served his first semester on a somewhat unprecedented one year contract, with the ghost of recruiting and APR mishaps of the recent past looming at every turn.

It wasn't just a segment of people that forecasted the programs demise, it was a damn near consensus. There was nothing about the job that was particularly attractive, and the absolute best we would have done - Shaka Smart - is in even tougher waters now than Ollie is.

There is plenty to quibble with over the last three years. But as long as the earth keeps time you cannot describe his first two seasons as anything but some of the best coaching you'll ever - and I don't use that word lightly - see.

Nah, I'm with Tenspro. Popovich was the play and Warde blew it.

 

[Tenspro2002]

What would you suggest?

A national search. At least give the impression that we're not desperate.

 

[Tenspro2002]

Nah, I'm with Tenspro. Popovich was the play and Warde blew it.

I got a chuckle out of this. Kudos.

 

[7774]

A national search. At least give the impression that we're not desperate.

So Syracuse is desperate too right?