Perspective on KLS vs. Asia and Arike

DefenseBB

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#51
@DefenseBB , first of all, thank you for putting this together. I do not presume to speak for the board, but in this case, I think I am safe in saying that we all appreciate your hard work.

My only issue is that the statistics in your chart tell games played and averages, but it does not measure out level of competition.

Using RealTimeRPI.com, here are certain RPI metrics for Notre Dame, Louisville, and UConn (with hyperlinks to each team's page on RealTimeRPI.com), as of Friday, February 8, 2019:

NOTRE DAME
10-3 against the RPI Top 50
5-1 against the RPI Top 20
2-1 against the RPI Top 10

LOUISVILLE
12-1 against the RPI Top 50
4-1 against the RPI Top 20
2-1 against the RPI Top 10

UCONN
5-2 against the RPI Top 50
2-2 against the RPI Top 20
1-2 against the RPI Top 10

The RPI ratings can be considered measures of the quality of the opposition, whereas using the total number of games in a season includes all teams (including any non-conference cupcakes and conference teams with lowly RPI rankings).

UConn is 13-0 against teams in the triple digits (ranked 100 or worse) in RPI, whereas Notre Dame is 6-0 and Louisville is 9-0 in such games.

It would be interesting to see the individual player statistics for Ogunbowale, Durr, and Samuelson for games against RPI Top 50, RPI Top 20, and RPI Top 10.

Of course, I am going to be the Boneyard visitor who mentions that this "would be interesting" while putting it out there for someone else to do the work. Is it any wonder why some on this board hate Duke? LOL!!!

@EricLA
@ucbart
Thanks Cam, I actually started to do the their stats against Top 25 competition but I had to do my “day job”, that cursed thing always gets in the way!
I mentioned that if other peers have access to other metric rankings ( @Dillon77 @Orangutan did something last year when comparing Arike and Asia but I could not remember what it was).
THe intersting perspective for me is that on paper, Arike has much better teammate than either KLS or Asia and then KLS has two better running mates than Asia.

It’s clear Arike is having a down year from last year however ever so slightly (big drop in 3 pt percentage) and Asia is playing very well, with my main point is members on here lose perspective on how relatively great KLS is by showing other known great players stats.

And yes, typical Duke arrogance in thinking other people should do work for their enjoyment... ;);)
 

bballnut90

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#52
Young and Mabrey for starters. Heck, Arike has her selfish streaks but she's actually a pretty strong passer as well when she prioritizes looking for her teammates.

There isn't anything particularly unique about KLS's passing ability that I've noticed other than that she looks for open teammates/cutters and overall does a good job of executing plays in a passing oriented offense. She isn't creating shots for teammates like Ionescu does.
 
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#53
Really? No one at UConn can make a shot when needed? I find that a ridiculous statement, particularly when Arike is hitting less than 30% of her 3-point shots. How long can Arike live one game from last season?
Please list the UConn players in the last ten years that made a shot that won a national semi-final or championship the way Arike did. We will wait for your response.
 
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#54
To stray from the offensive stats for a moment, I'll take Durr and KLS over Arike any day because they play defense. Arike picks and chooses when and if she wants to play D, which would never work with Geno. It might not have the impact as the offensive stats being discussed here but to me they're part of the whole.
 
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#55
So here is Lou's highlights from last year, the year she led the nation in 3pt fg%. Didn't contain one 3pt shot for those putting her in box. Observe her passing along when she has timely passes to her when she cuts (many from Gabby.)


Compared to freshman year:
Katie Lou Samuelson

Not playing this year like a NPOY, but still a lot of improvement in overall game and when the shots start falling believe she is AA.
 
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#56
First, I must admit I am biased for KLS and any unwarranted criticism thrown her way irritates me.
Second, after reviewing the ND last night (and even the Tex AM-Mizzou game) I saw Arike was 4-16 and 1-6 in 3 pters, so I decided to look up hers, Asia Durr’s and KLS stats for a quick compare.
Below is the standard list of stats and I would love to see the more advanced stats of player values others know better than I do to get a more informed perspective of these players.
Third, I hope to provoke a more rational evaluation by some of my peers in here as their”critical eye” that they like to use, is usually misinformed, wrong or just play ignorant.

You are best judged by those of which you compete. ND, Louisville and UConn are expected to be good year in year out so I thought this set of comparisons on position, stature on their team and in the national consciousness of WCBB was logical. As always I want to hear from you.

Here’s the chart with the leader in each category highlighted.

View attachment 39354
Glad to see this. Asia struck me as primarily a shooter, KLS more an all round player. Why not highlight rebounds? Plus Lou seems to run team. Down the road I see her returning to UConn as head coach.
 
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#57
Durr is the clear favorite this year among Lou & Arike when talking about POY. Yes, Lou’s numbers are comparable but let’s face the facts, she feasts against lesser competition with leak out layups. She hasn’t shown up in any big game this year from a NPOY standard. She can possibly play her way back into All-American status but still has work to do. She’s more than capable of that.

All 3 leave a lot to be desired from a defensive standpoint. Durr is the best on-ball defender of all 3 but that’s not saying much.
Actually, Lou is a far better defender, especially of late. She's extremely disruptive snd forces turnovers. Durr is a good shooter but I don't notice her much when she's on the floor and wouldn't make my top 10 for POY.
 
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#58
So here is Lou's highlights from last year, the year she led the nation in 3pt fg%. Didn't contain one 3pt shot for those putting her in box. Observe her passing along when she has timely passes to her when she cuts (many from Gabby.)


Compared to freshman year:
Katie Lou Samuelson

Not playing this year like a NPOY, but still a lot of improvement in overall game and when the shots start falling believe she is AA.
Very good. Shows this year not a good into the post passing team. Lou is good but when she posts up lacking
 
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#60
First, I must admit I am biased for KLS and any unwarranted criticism thrown her way irritates me.
True AO did make 2 miracle shots, LAST year... but that was then. She stunk up the gym in Miami last night, and other games this year.. and her stats this year are not good compared to NPOY standards.
I would like a little rules clarification here. Are we allowed to criticize UConn players or not? I see it's clearly fair game to go after other players.
 

DefenseBB

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#61
I would like a little rules clarification here. Are we allowed to criticize UConn players or not? I see it's clearly fair game to go after other players.
When you make just plain dumb assertions without ANY FACTS OR EVIDENCE to support these claims, then yes, you will be rebuked. So, what evidence do you have to criticize a 2 time first team All-American that she isn’t performing to your satisfaction? This should be interesting....
 
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#62
When you make just plain dumb assertions without ANY FACTS OR EVIDENCE to support these claims, then yes, you will be rebuked. So, what evidence do you have to criticize a 2 time first team All-American that she isn’t performing to your satisfaction? This should be interesting....
Like I've said before, how should you judge a UConn player? By how they play against the varsity or how they play against the JV? UConn has played three contending teams (the varsity) this year and she's shooting 14-45 against them (31%). That's just not acceptable from your 2-time AA senior known for her shooting. Who cares about padding your stats against a team you beat by 60 (the JV)? I don't see what's wrong holding her to a higher standard. If UConn is going win again she has to do better.
 

RockyMTblue2

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#63
Given the situation, the time of the game, and a taller defender on her (Pheesa) it was kind of a "miracle" shot. One of 2 that ESPN went stop showing... in the old days they were on tape and we could hope the tape would wear out.
You are braced for the NCAAs I hope.
 
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#64
Please list the UConn players in the last ten years that made a shot that won a national semi-final or championship the way Arike did. We will wait for your response.
So, not a shot to win a big game, but limiting the universe to a shot to win one of the last two games of the season. Nice. Add to that the fact that UConn usually is not involved in a close game in the tournament. Nice. And this proves what exactly?
 
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#65
Like I've said before, how should you judge a UConn player? By how they play against the varsity or how they play against the JV? UConn has played three contending teams (the varsity) this year and she's shooting 14-45 against them (31%). That's just not acceptable from your 2-time AA senior known for her shooting. Who cares about padding your stats against a team you beat by 60 (the JV)? I don't see what's wrong holding her to a higher standard. If UConn is going win again she has to do better.
Three games is your evidence? First, UConn has played more than 3 teams in the top 50 (or do you define "varsity" to mean only teams in the top 5). Second, go back to your statistics class and remember what it said about drawing conclusions from very small samples.
 
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#66
Please list the UConn players in the last ten years that made a shot that won a national semi-final or championship the way Arike did. We will wait for your response.

Silly query.

Uconn did lose the two semi finals...but they have never lost a championship game. Most all of their championship games have been blowouts, and, as you know, they have more championships than anyone.
 
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#67
To stray from the offensive stats for a moment, I'll take Durr and KLS over Arike any day because they play defense. Arike picks and chooses when and if she wants to play D, which would never work with Geno. It might not have the impact as the offensive stats being discussed here but to me they're part of the whole.
In UConn's win at ND, the freshman, Williams, made AO look very bad defensively.
 
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#68
Glad to see this. Asia struck me as primarily a shooter, KLS more an all round player. Why not highlight rebounds? Plus Lou seems to run team. Down the road I see her returning to UConn as head coach.

I, too, am a KLS fan and agree that she is the more rounded player.

That said, Asia has a critical skill important to star status in the WNBA...the ability to create shots anytime, anywhere. Asia has more undeveloped potential....its why she will go high in the draft.
 
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#70
The POY is likely Ionescu. Durr has been great this season. KLS has been very good as well. Arike has some off nights but is still a very good player.

I think all of them have the potential to be great in the WNBA but one never knows until they take the floor. It’s possible to root for the home player on a team and still affirm others are talented.
 

nwhoopfan

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#73
Not fair. Lots of posts by UConn fans on the Boneyard that are supportive of players from other teams.
I did use an emoticon, I'm not being entirely serious.

There are BYers that appreciate good players and good teams regardless of what name is on the jersey, and there are BYers that don't abide any praise for anyone other than the team and players in Storrs, CT.
 

DefenseBB

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#75
If the NPOY award were given out now, I would say it would go to Asia Durr as she has been seen in more signature wins and even in their loss to ND, Asia played very well. Sabrina would be Second, mostly due to the rest of the country not having seen her a lot, which is a shame.
 

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