Perspective on KLS vs. Asia and Arike

[PAHuskeyFan]

OK... So, from your list of what it takes to "create your own shot"... Lou does it... just not as much as some posters might like. Clearly some do it better or more often, but Lou does it, and while I only listed 4 examples, I did that for brevity. Just something people "toss out there" as a dig.

And... "comments putting her with Sue, Tina, etc..." were Posters acknowledging a Career Milestone... nothing more, nothing less. As Kara Wolters said on the pregame show recently, she did her scoring from the 2 point range because she didn't take 3s... but that should NOT be held against someone who can shoot 3s. Just sayin!

 

['nuff sed]

And... "comments putting her with Sue, Tina, etc..." were Posters acknowledging a Career Milestone... nothing more, nothing less. As Kara Wolters said on the pregame show recently, she did her scoring from the 2 point range because she didn't take 3s... but that should NOT be held against someone who can shoot 3s. Just sayin!

The rationalizations and excuses and misinterpretations never end.

Creating space for yourself—- means picks don’t count.

3’s vs 2’s —— right now, I like to see her score the 2’s — in traffic, drawing fouls, —- with the 3’s in her back pocket —— it should be abundantly clear by now, that there are some matchups that take the corner 3 away from her. There are some situations where she is worth more inside than outside.

All I ever said was this year she needed to do more—-but Lou religion didn’t allow that. She’s doing it now.

Geezuz - Give her credit for upping her game instead of adorating the lesser Lou, because she just wasn’t “all that”.

And last night you saw players who could take her off the dribble at will defensively. Not a knock - just an observation. There will be more of them in the tournament with guard strong teams.

Nobody’s holding anything against anybody. Put a banner up but please - no statue.

 

[Gus Mahler]

Since we are talking about passing here, for one you dismissed her [I'm not considering Crystal. Yet]. IMO, Crystal is a much better passer than Lou...and would fair very well when compared to Ionescu in that category.

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The context of the discussion seemed to me to be about the very best players in the country, those who might be considered for NPOY. That's why I was intentionally abstracting away from Crystal. She is clearly among the better players in the country, but is not POY caliber (yet).

You will note, too, that in my post I left open the possibility that SI was better. I haven't seen her much--I don't follow Oregon basketball. I have, however, seen every game that Lou has played in. That she is an outstanding passer--for any position-- is indisputable.

 

[inthisopinion]

The context of the discussion seemed to me to be about the very best players in the country, those who might be considered for NPOY. That's why I was intentionally abstracting away from Crystal. She is clearly among the better players in the country, but is not POY caliber (yet).

You will note, too, that in my post I left open the possibility that SI was better. I haven't seen her much--I don't follow Oregon basketball. I have, however, seen every game that Lou has played in. That she is an outstanding passer--for any position-- is indisputable.

KLS doesn't make virtually all the half court inbound passing for nothing. She is a superb passer mainly because she is always looking to make a pass unlike most other players in today's game. As I have stated before for such a great offensive force she is a great "team player" sometimes to a fault.

 

[Los24]

I think Geno said who he thought the best player in the country was in the post game today.

And he said that about Lou last year.... Most think she is better than past years, more complete, outside a shooting slump. They are both great but different players. I can tell you one thing I see that is not in stats, two defenders running to Lou leaving a teammate wide open, even during a huge slump. Taking on extra responsibilities of bringing up the ball, in-bounding, backup (every position,) vocal leadership, etc...

Pheesa is great and I hope she wins POY but to argue Lou is not at the same level is not accurate, just as people debated the same Soph and Junior seasons in the other direction. I thought Pheesa was good last year but was forced to play different or out of place because of the make up of players from the year before changed.

Point is they both bring different skills and value to our team, and I would rather hoist both up than take one down. I first referenced Pheesa as the quiet assassin her Soph year because she cuts you 1000 ways and you don't even realized she dropped 20pts and 10rebs every night.

All that said, its a board and some criticism of a player I think is okay. I appreciate your point about Lou (not) creating her own space. I do not agree 100% because you are comparing her to two of the best players that can do that at a high level and is their strength. Everyone does not have to be able to do that to be good or great. At the next level I think it not as critical. I did not see any of that with Kia and she seems to be doing well at next level.

BTW I don't think insulting religion or faith is necessary or should be tolerated on this board, along with politics. Most people like to judge yet never take the time to truely study and understand either.

 

[inthisopinion]

"In bold above can you please explain? "

uhhh, no

Comparing KML to KLS is ridiculous. KLS is clearly the superior player. The only thing that is comparable is their 3pt & FT shooting. Nothing else is.

 

[j66kicker]

Was UConn ever in that situation they needed a last second shot to win?

Bird at the Buzzer: UConn, Notre Dame, and a Women's Basketball Classic by Jeff Goldberg

 

[hoophuskee]

there is no logic in arguing with religious extremists, or Lou Fanatics

Most of the observations, and woe's, are regarding the 3's, not the 2's. This year is really her development year into a more complete player, and she's doing that. And rather well right now. I think role in past offenses and injury dumb her development somewhat.

My comments have been more related to the blind devotion to the 3 point shooter the fan base loves. And the comments that elevate her into a position in the pantheon that a previous one trick pony didn't IMO earn. Comments putting her with Sue, Tina, etc are frankly just ridiculous. I never said she wasn't great, I never said she was undeserving. I only make the point that the "adoration" is in my view a bit overdone and misplaced.

Creating space for yourself:

Having the quickness to make a physical adjustment needed to clear space for your vision and release point of your shot.

The efficient physical use of body size and height to clear space.

Elevation of the release point.

Move into another space.

In short, with possession of the ball, to move in such a manner to create the space needed to execute a shot while closely guarded by a defender, without the reliance of a teammate to create that space for you.

Watch Asia, she can score 1 on 5. Anytime. Speed and Quickness.

Swoopes, Cheryl Miller, Diana--- create space -- or see space and just take it --- all by themselves

You can cherry pick all the individual games and plays you want, there are always exceptions to draw on.

Okay to start with I just want to say I agree with you that KLS does not belong not even in the top 12 without even thinking. And right now wherever we put Gabby and Collier I'd put them ahead of KLS. But ofc the season isn't over yet. With that said I think you've gone off the rails with your personal garbage for fellow UCONN fans love of KLS. Your talk about wishing they were her father is complete bush league garbage,

But back to hoop - if you think if KML can create more space than KLS -- in a meaningful way - I think you are way off base. I would wager that the number of times in KLS career she has scored more by low posting her player (getting fouled counts) than KML. Her long strides vs her opponent have allowed her more opportunities for lowpost. Though you could argue that it was probably a pick that then allowed her to low post. I dont think that can ever be proven unless you look at film for every game. Yet every game it's not a big deal to set a pick here or there so if it gets someone free.

ANd imo you are in denial by deliberately not counting the times KLS showed you she scored off the dribble or low posted vs the number of times KML. You call it cherry-pick-- I call it denial. For example I'm not sure DT ever low-posted much as a frosh of soph yet if someone were to say she can't lowpost and as a counter we'd say "just look at the finals vs Oklahoma. OFC she can." So one poster would say "you cherry-picked." While I would counter that they were "in denial."

 

['nuff sed]

Okay to start with I just want to say I agree with you that KLS does not belong not even in the top 12 without even thinking. And right now wherever we put Gabby and Collier I'd put them ahead of KLS. But ofc the season isn't over yet. With that said I think you've gone off the rails with your personal garbage for fellow UCONN fans love of KLS. Your talk about wishing they were her father is complete bush league garbage,

But back to hoop - if you think if KML can create more space than KLS -- in a meaningful way - I think you are way off base. I would wager that the number of times in KLS career she has scored more by low posting her player (getting fouled counts) than KML. Her long strides vs her opponent have allowed her more opportunities for lowpost. Though you could argue that it was probably a pick that then allowed her to low post. I dont think that can ever be proven unless you look at film for every game. Yet every game it's not a big deal to set a pick here or there so if it gets someone free.

ANd imo you are in denial by deliberately not counting the times KLS showed you she scored off the dribble or low posted vs the number of times KML. You call it cherry-pick-- I call it denial. For example I'm not sure DT ever low-posted much as a frosh of soph yet if someone were to say she can't lowpost and as a counter we'd say "just look at the finals vs Oklahoma. OFC she can." So one poster would say "you cherry-picked." While I would counter that they were "in denial."

I typed it I stand by it.

 

[jaundicedeye]

First, I must admit I am biased for KLS and any unwarranted criticism thrown her way irritates me.
Second, after reviewing the ND last night (and even the Tex AM-Mizzou game) I saw Arike was 4-16 and 1-6 in 3 pters, so I decided to look up hers, Asia Durr’s and KLS stats for a quick compare.
Below is the standard list of stats and I would love to see the more advanced stats of player values others know better than I do to get a more informed perspective of these players.
Third, I hope to provoke a more rational evaluation by some of my peers in here as their”critical eye” that they like to use, is usually misinformed, wrong or just play ignorant.

You are best judged by those of which you compete. ND, Louisville and UConn are expected to be good year in year out so I thought this set of comparisons on position, stature on their team and in the national consciousness of WCBB was logical. As always I want to hear from you.

Here’s the chart with the leader in each category highlighted.

View attachment 39354

Great stuff! One has to consider the big picture when making comparisons and evaluations and your chart certainly does that. Too bad there is no quantification for leadership, effort and guts. Lou has no competition there. Lou is not selfish and would never quit or do something to hurt her team.
Regarding the ability to create your own shot, well, consider finding screens, curling off a pick and making cuts to the basket Lou's own shots! WBB especially, is a team game so why even weigh one-on-one?
To draw from another sport, who would you rather have, Tom Brady or Lamar Jackson?

 

[Ron and Vida]

damn...caught Thought I'd take a chance while I could!

Glad you did.
what's there not to like about Shepard
Would love to have her!

 

[PAHuskeyFan]

I served as an Officer in the US Military for 30 years. As such I swore an oath to "support and defend the Constitution of the United States." I will always support and defend a person's right to free speech. However, I do not have to "listen" or "read" that person's free speech when they (1) refuse to explain their reasoning or reply to questions on something or a position of theirs that others have the nerve to question, (2) when they get upset at others for using their own words/explanations to dispute their position on a subject/issue, and (3) rather than engaging in a mature give and take/sharing of thoughts and ideas they insult those who do not agree with them.

I would think it's reasonable to assume those who participate on the UCONN Womens Basketball page of "The Boneyard" are in some way "Fans" of (1) NCAA Womens Basketball or (2) Fans of UCONN Basketball. I know we have participants on the BY who are fans of other NCAA Teams, but they routinely engage in meaningful dialog regarding Women's Basketball in general. We know who they are, and they are (at least in my recollection) respectful of UCONN Fans and PLAYERS. That said, I am amazed at how strongly some poster(s), presumed to be UCONN Fans, can dislike some of the UCONN Players so much.

No One is talking about a Statue, the mythical UCONN Mt. Rushmore, or even NPOY. We're talking about a player who has reached significant career achievements at UCONN, and been recognized by AAC, WBCA, USBWA, & AP with multiple awards (None of these "influenced" by BY Posters). She will graduate as the #4 or #3 total point scorer, and one of the most prolific 3Pt shooters in UCONN History. She has given us a lot to enjoy over the last 4 seasons, and will be major key to how far the team goes this year. And...when the poster tells me to "put up a banner" in response to a response he/she didn't like because it didn't match his/her opinion... I can only say... I don't have to. There is already one hanging in the Werth Champions Center and there will be one hanging in Gampel Pavilion in just a few weeks!

I am a Fan of ALL our players. I wish them all the absolute Best of Success and will be cheering them ALL On as they work toward #12.

 

[Rixxx]

Thank you for your service to our great country.

 

[PAHuskeyFan]

Thank you for your service to our great country.

Thank You

 

[MilfordHusky]

Was UConn ever in that situation they needed a last second shot to win?

Rarely.

As noted, Bird scored, in 2001. She also hit a half-court bomb in that game.

Diana made 2 key shots against Tennessee in 2003, including one from 65 feet.

Ketia Swanier made a drive and bucket against DePaul in 2008.

Maya made 2 treys to cut the deficit from 9 to 3 against Rutgers as a freshman. She didn't get the ball to try the game-tying shot (which, in my mind, was certainly going in).

In other cases, Gabby came up slightly short against N.D. last year in regulation. Kaleena missed from the corner against N.D. in a game when she suffered a thigh bruise.

When the average MOV ranges from 25 to 40, there are not many close games.