Penn State...

[bmayuc]

No, Jerry Sandusky is the reason kids were raped, not the football team. The players are especially not responsible. Clear out the officers and coaches if you like, but the players don't deserve to have their team taken away.

If we are having this conversation in 1998 I would agree with you. The reason kids were raped BEFORE 1998 was all on sandusky. HOWEVER, ANYTHING AFTER 1998 that happened in those Penn State showers, road trips, etc... That is allllllllllll on Penn State Football.

That, my friend, is because the HEAD COACH, the ATHLETIC DIRECTOR, and the SCHOOL PRESIDENT, wanted to sweep it under the rug and not make a national headline. If you don't believe that, you are being Naive.

And that is why, THAT CULTURE that produces the decision to cover up a VILE human being, is why the program deserves to BURN...

 

[RS9999X]

That, my friend, is because the HEAD COACH, the ATHLETIC DIRECTOR, and the SCHOOL PRESIDENT, wanted to sweep it under the rug and not make a national headline. If you don't believe that, you are being Naive....

Freeh's report is facing criticism for it one-sided editorializing on that issue. Asking a janitor and then the janitor comes to that conclusion on his own? That isn't really evidence.

Paterno wasn't indicted because he was within the requirements of the law to report to superiors. There was a state investigation ongoing. They thought that by retiring Sandusky and restricting access to the Locker Rooms and sending him for Counseling the problem was handled. Ultimately it wasn't Paterno's decision. Paterno isn't the one who consulted with Univerity Lawyers and mapped out a strategy

 

[bmayuc]

Freeh's report is facing criticism for it one-sided editorializing on that issue. Asking a janitor and then the janitor comes to that conclusion on his own? That isn't really evidence.

Paterno wasn't indicted because he was within the requirements of the law to report to superiors. There was a state investigation ongoing. They thought that by retiring Sandusky and restricting access to the Locker Rooms and sending him for Counseling the problem was handled. Ultimately it wasn't Paterno's decision. Paterno isn't the one who consulted with Univerity Lawyers and mapped out a strategy

Picking nits here... they were GOING to report the 2001 incident, and emails state that after their conversation with JoePa they decided on not reporting.

Burn the program

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

 

[RS9999X]

Picking nits here... they were GOING to report the 2001 incident, and emails state that after their conversation with JoePa they decided on not reporting.

Burn the program

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

This is where the nitpicking comes in. The email doesn't say that. That's a very narrow spin on what the email says/ It says they decided to inform Sandusky of the charges.. after talking to Paterno. That would be the humane thing to do and to get him into counciling first.

 

[dapriest]

This is where the nitpicking comes in. The email doesn't say that. That's a very narrow spin . . .

You must be a defense lawyer.
The thing you're calling "spin" is not "spin." It's very reasonable inference.
Regarding why he wasn't indicted - he wasn't indicted because he died. If he was alive right now, there's a very, very good chance there would be charges pending against him.

You're not "nitpicking" - you're struggling mightily (and failing) to find reasonable doubt that Paterno effectively was a blocking back for Sandusky running straight up the middle into child rape red zones.

 

[upstater]

You must be a defense lawyer.
The thing you're calling "spin" is not "spin." It's very reasonable inference.
Regarding why he wasn't indicted - he wasn't indicted because he died. If he was alive right now, there's a very, very good chance there would be charges pending against him.

You're not "nitpicking" - you're struggling mightily (and failing) to find reasonable doubt that Paterno effectively was a blocking back for Sandusky running straight up the middle into child rape red zones.

I'm for giving the program the death penalty, and I believe Paterno tried to cover this up. That being said, I don't think you've read the Freeh report. Freeh did not release the handwritten note by Schultz and Spanier that showed the Pres and Veep had mapped out the ultimate cowardly strategy they took long before the Curley/Paterno meeting.

Here is how it went:
1. Sandusky rapes the kid
2. McQueary talks to doctor (mandatory reporter) that night
3. Paterno talks to McQueary next morning
4. Paterno talks to Curley/Schultz the next day
5. Curley/Schultz talk to Spanier the next day, the lawyers are brought in to oversee strategy, the afternoon of 2/12/01, Schultz and Spanier write down the strategy which was to go to Sandusky first and "unless he confesses" to go to authorities.
6. Curley doesn't speak to Sandusky for three weeks.
7. No one knows what happened between the Schultz/Spanier memo and the Curley/Paterno meeting. We can speculate they spoke to McQueary and may have changed tactics after talking to him, and then perhaps Paterno changed Curley's mind, but the President, VEEP and lawyers were all predisposed to sweeping it under the rug. TRhis much is evidenced in the Freeh report.

Furthermore, this isn't the first time these people swept child molestation under the rug. They did it in the case of a professor as well, so... don't be too easy on the admins.

I'm betting that Paterno, Spanier and the lawyers designed the cover-up a few days after the rape.

 

[babysheep]

So, the players are also responsible for covering the rapes up?

 

[8893]

So, the players are also responsible for covering the rapes up?

You don't read too well, do you?

 

[sparky]

Take it down like Sadaam's. It's a sham just like PSU shut the football program down for 3 years.

 

[sparky]

So, the players are also responsible for covering the rapes up?

no the players aren't responsible. The whole institution is top to bottom including the community. Shut it down and let the players play elssewhere.

 

[geordi]

"Furthermore, this isn't the first time these people swept child molestation under the rug. They did it in the case of a professor as well, so... don't be too easy on the admins."

That's right. Let's give the death penalty to the Physics Department too. Get rid of all those other Physics profs and the kids majoring in Physics. It's only right.

 

[Rico444]

So, the players are also responsible for covering the rapes up?

Let the players transfer and play immediately.

There, now your argument is completely out the window.

 

[jleves]

"Furthermore, this isn't the first time these people swept child molestation under the rug. They did it in the case of a professor as well, so... don't be too easy on the admins."

That's right. Let's give the death penalty to the Physics Department too. Get rid of all those other Physics profs and the kids majoring in Physics. It's only right.

Huge difference - the physics department is not earning millions for the school with TV contracts. Fans aren't lining up to watch experiments. The institute was so concerned with keeping the football product making money that they allowed horrific things to happen for over a decade. And yes, you definitely get rid of the physics professor and anyone else involved with sweeping it under the rug. The bottom line is the school and the NCAA cannot allow the football program to continue to earn revenue until the entire cult following around it is killed.

 

[businesslawyer]

The report said that Paterno, along with officials Tim Curley, Gary Schultz, and former president Graham Spanier, "repeatedly concealed critical facts relating to Sandusky's child abuse from the authorities," and it blamed those four men for failing to stop Sandusky and protect other chidlren from his harm.

The four officials showed a "striking lack of empathy" for the victims of Sandusky's abuse and empowered the former assitant coach to continue abusing, the report said.

Found this in a CBS news write up. Disgraceful and disgusting. some are arguing that child abuse and child molestation are not covered by NCAA rules. I can see why the NCAA wouldn't have a formal policy on it, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't act given the findings. I mean, the former FBI director came up with the report after his investigation. Guilty on all counts, and the NCAA should step up. Let PSU try to sue the NCAA for taking football away for 5 years.

Child molesting (as well as armed robbery, assault and battery and insider trading) are not covered by NCAA rules because they are not about sports. They are about crimes governed and punished by society.

The reason for the death penalty is not because Sandusky was a pedophile. The reason for the death penalty (whether you support it or not) is because PSU covered up crimes that were being repeated to protect the reputation of their football program.

 

[geordi]

In for a penny, in for a pound.

 

[DrewDog85]

No, Jerry Sandusky is the reason kids were raped, not the football team. The players are especially not responsible. Clear out the officers and coaches if you like, but the players don't deserve to have their team taken away.

Wow It's not Their Team !!

 

[babysheep]

You people just want PSU football to be gone. You just want a death penalty now that the possibility is floating around. There is literally no benefit of doing it. Doing it for the victims? Everyone involved is being investigated, will surely be prosecuted (the future of this is in no way dependent on the continuation of the football team), and justice will be done. Sending a message? What message, that cover-ups of this magnitude are not going to be tolerated? Do you think most people don't get that message already?

 

[UConn990411]

Sending a message? What message, that cover-ups of this magnitude are not going to be tolerated? Do you think most people don't get that message already?

The people at Penn State don't seem to get that at all.

 

[dapriest]

Do you think most people don't get that message already?

I'm quite certain that the Sandusky situation will occur again at some point in the future.
What a "death penalty" against PSU will do is put the idea in everybody's head that when you are faced with this choice:

ratting out a dude when you first find out about his evil, thereby hurting the program, but sparing his future victims OR covering up for the dude, thereby sparing the program immediate harm to the detriment of his future victims

and your moral compass, like Paterno's, is lost and/or broken, you have extra incentive to pick choice one, because if you don't the long term harm will far outweigh any short term gain.

I love your idealism, however.

I think a fair punishment for the program would be 10 years, no postseason, or 5 years, no football, your choice. Every current athlete should be allowed an immediate transfer.

 

[babysheep]

The people at Penn State don't seem to get that at all.

Of course the people involved in the cover-up knew/know that what they did will not be tolerated at all; they just didn't care/ were willing to take the risk of getting caught for the sake of Joe Paterno's reputation

 

[UConn990411]

I'm not talking about those people - I'm talking about the nutjobs at that school and who reside in that community.

Paterno is still just as beloved as he was before.

 

[babysheep]

I'm quite certain that the Sandusky situation will occur again at some point in the future.
What a "death penalty" against PSU will do is put the idea in everybody's head that when you are faced with this choice:

ratting out a dude when you first find out about his evil, thereby hurting the program, but sparing his future victims OR covering up for the dude, thereby sparing the program immediate harm to the detriment of his future victims

and your moral compass, like Paterno's, is lost and/or broken, you have extra incentive to pick choice one, because if you don't the long term harm will far outweigh any short term gain.

I love your idealism, however.

I think a fair punishment for the program would be 10 years, no postseason, or 5 years, no football, your choice. Every current athlete should be allowed an immediate transfer.

Assuming that anybody above the age of 6 needs to be taught that if you see someone committing a heinous crime, you report it ASAP and do everything you can to bring justice, you don't get rid of a football program to give out some lesson on morality. The punishments for the people who were actually involved are what teach that lesson.

 

[babysheep]

I'm quite certain that the Sandusky situation will occur again at some point in the future.
What a "death penalty" against PSU will do is put the idea in everybody's head that when you are faced with this choice:

ratting out a dude when you first find out about his evil, thereby hurting the program, but sparing his future victims OR covering up for the dude, thereby sparing the program immediate harm to the detriment of his future victims

and your moral compass, like Paterno's, is lost and/or broken, you have extra incentive to pick choice one, because if you don't the long term harm will far outweigh any short term gain.

I love your idealism, however.

I think a fair punishment for the program would be 10 years, no postseason, or 5 years, no football, your choice. Every current athlete should be allowed an immediate transfer.

Assuming that anybody above the age of 6 needs to be taught that if you see someone committing a heinous crime, you report it ASAP and do everything you can to bring justice, you don't get rid of a football program to give out some lesson on morality. The punishments for the people who were actually involved are what teach that lesson.

 

[babysheep]

I'm not talking about those people - I'm talking about the nutjobs at that school and who reside in that community.

Paterno is still just as beloved as he was before.

You sound like your finger is RIGHT on the pulse of the PSU student body and alumni.