Paige Doing Paige Stuff

[CamrnCrz1974]

I actually think the first thing they need to do is replace their coach. I also think they need to bring in "culture" players, because right now they don't seem to have a particularly good culture right there.

Arike Ogunbowale was drafted in 2019. During that time frame (seven seasons, including this one), Dallas has had four head coaches -- and only one season above .500:

• Brian Agler
• Vickie Johnson
• Latricia Trammell
• Chris Koclanes

The primary issue is not coaching.
Rather, one of the main questions is whether Ogunbowale is a player around whom a championship contender can be built. Four coaches have not been able to harness Arike's immense talent into being an efficient player who makes her teammates better.

Given how ball dominant she is, her career shooting averages (39.1% from the floor, 34.8% from three), effective field goal percentage, and true shooting percentages do not translate into a player for a team with championship aspirations.

The question I have is if Dallas is willing to build around Bueckers and make the decision to trade Ogunbowale, possibly to one of the expansion franchises (Portland and Toronto) for next year in exchange for a package including first round picks.

 

[BobbyJ]

Arike Ogunbowale was drafted in 2019. During that time frame (seven seasons, including this one), Dallas has had four head coaches -- and only one season above .500:

• Brian Agler
• Vickie Johnson
• Latricia Trammell
• Chris Koclanes

The primary issue is not coaching.
Rather, one of the main questions is whether Ogunbowale is a player around whom a championship contender can be built. Four coaches have not been able to harness Arike's immense talent into being an efficient player who makes her teammates better.

Given how ball dominant she is, her career shooting averages (39.1% from the floor, 34.8% from three), effective field goal percentage, and true shooting percentages do not translate into a player for a team with championship aspirations.

The question I have is if Dallas is willing to build around Bueckers and make the decision to trade Ogunbowale, possibly to one of the expansion franchises (Portland and Toronto) for next year in exchange for a package including first round picks.

I agree with your point that this is a management problem, not a coaching one. I would also add that the numbers you provided don't describe a "immense talent". They describe a below average volume shooter who does nothing else to impact winning. I don't even think there's a market for her that would return first round picks. I'd trade her tomorrow if I thought there was any market at all.

 

[oldude]

Arike Ogunbowale was drafted in 2019. During that time frame (seven seasons, including this one), Dallas has had four head coaches -- and only one season above .500:

• Brian Agler
• Vickie Johnson
• Latricia Trammell
• Chris Koclanes

The primary issue is not coaching.
Rather, one of the main questions is whether Ogunbowale is a player around whom a championship contender can be built. Four coaches have not been able to harness Arike's immense talent into being an efficient player who makes her teammates better.

Given how ball dominant she is, her career shooting averages (39.1% from the floor, 34.8% from three), effective field goal percentage, and true shooting percentages do not translate into a player for a team with championship aspirations.

The question I have is if Dallas is willing to build around Bueckers and make the decision to trade Ogunbowale, possibly to one of the expansion franchises (Portland and Toronto) for next year in exchange for a package including first round picks.

Ogunbowle is on a 1-yr contract like just about every other veteran in the W. Unless she dramatically picks up her play during the rest of the season, I can’t see the Wings resigning her.

 

[CL82]

Arike Ogunbowale was drafted in 2019. During that time frame (seven seasons, including this one), Dallas has had four head coaches -- and only one season above .500:

• Brian Agler
• Vickie Johnson
• Latricia Trammell
• Chris Koclanes

The primary issue is not coaching.
Rather, one of the main questions is whether Ogunbowale is a player around whom a championship contender can be built. Four coaches have not been able to harness Arike's immense talent into being an efficient player who makes her teammates better.

Given how ball dominant she is, her career shooting averages (39.1% from the floor, 34.8% from three), effective field goal percentage, and true shooting percentages do not translate into a player for a team with championship aspirations.

The question I have is if Dallas is willing to build around Bueckers and make the decision to trade Ogunbowale, possibly to one of the expansion franchises (Portland and Toronto) for next year in exchange for a package including first round picks.

I don't disagree with your point, however, Kolcanes doesn't seem to be doing much with the talent he has. I think he's in over his head.

 

[oldude]

I don't disagree with your point, however, Kolcanes doesn't seem to be doing much with the talent he has. I think he's in over his head.

It’ll all get fixed tonight. I notice that Curt Miller is sitting in the front row, deeply engaged in conversation with Geno, who has 3 former players to check out: Paige, Kaitlyn & Tiffany.

 

[Bald Husky]

The coach in the season opening presser said they would control Paige's minutes, but that did not occur. You are right to be concerned. The game I saw had her in the mid 30s.

Last night against Golden State Paige played 39 minutes. As Geno once said, it looks bad out there if Paige isn't on the court, and that's when she played with good players. LOL

 

[HuskyNan]

I agree with your point that this is a management problem, not a coaching one. I would also add that the numbers you provided don't describe a "immense talent". They describe a below average volume shooter who does nothing else to impact winning. I don't even think there's a market for her that would return first round picks. I'd trade her tomorrow if I thought there was any market at all.

Geno recruited Arike. He seemed to think she has talent.

What could she have been if she’d been coached at UConn?

 

[BobbyJ]

Geno recruited Arike. He seemed to think she has talent.

What could she have been if she’d been coached at UConn?

There's a large difference between talent and "immense talent". GA probably believes that every player he recruits has talent but I doubt that he thinks they all have immense talent. That would be delusional as he likes to say. At UConn she would have had to learn to play defense or she would've been gone in a year due to lack of PT.

 

[HuskyNan]

There's a large difference between talent and "immense talent". GA probably believes that every player he recruits has talent but I doubt that he thinks they all have immense talent. That would be delusional as he likes to say. At UConn she would have had to learn to play defense or she would've been gone in a year due to lack of PT.

Fair enough. But I think Arike would have been more effective as a more well-rounded basketball player rather than a shooter. She’s forcing shots now and when they don’t go in, doesn’t have another effective facet to her game to go to.

Every UConn fan knows when shots don’t fall, players work to tighten up the defense, set a screen for a teammate, focus on rebounding, or drive to the hoop- anything that helps the team. Geno harps on this. Coaching matters

 

[oldude]

As a naysayer, I’ll give Arike her due. She had a nice all-around game last night. Yes, she took the most shots (1 more than Paige) but she also distributed the ball, rebounded and forced some turnovers.

The woeful CT Sun are up next. Let’s see if the Paige/Arike combo can continue to play well off each other and maybe the Wings can have their first 2-game winning streak of the season.

 

[BobbyJ]

Fair enough. But I think Arike would have been more effective as a more well-rounded basketball player rather than a shooter. She’s forcing shots now and when they don’t go in, doesn’t have another effective facet to her game to go to.

Every UConn fan knows when shots don’t fall, players work to tighten up the defense, set a screen for a teammate, focus on rebounding, or drive to the hoop- anything that helps the team. Geno harps on this. Coaching matters

I agree and that’s why I described her game as doing nothing to impact winning on a regular basis. Dallas is paying for nothing but a big name from college.

 

[CamrnCrz1974]

I don't disagree with your point, however, Kolcanes doesn't seem to be doing much with the talent he has. I think he's in over his head.

In terms of the talent he has, Nalyssa Smith has never been a reliable shooter from the midrange or beyond the arc. That tempers the offensive options for a team with a true center (Teaira McCowan) whose game is in the restricted area.
And while DiJonai Carrington is a very good perimeter defender, she is not a consistent shooter.
Pairing them with a ball dominant and inconsistent shooter in Arike Ogunbowale is not a recipe for success, even with Arike's immense talent and Paige's elite point guard skills.

Kolcanes did not put the roster together.

 

[CamrnCrz1974]

Fair enough. But I think Arike would have been more effective as a more well-rounded basketball player rather than a shooter. She’s forcing shots now and when they don’t go in, doesn’t have another effective facet to her game to go to.

Every UConn fan knows when shots don’t fall, players work to tighten up the defense, set a screen for a teammate, focus on rebounding, or drive to the hoop- anything that helps the team. Geno harps on this. Coaching matters

The thing is, at Notre Dame, Arike Ogunbowale was a far more efficient shooter/scorer --- 44% from the floor, 39.3 percent from three, and 77.0 percent from the line.
She also averaged 4.6 rebounds per game for her career. And in her last two seasons, she put up 3.3 assists per contest with a career A/TO of nearly 2-to-1.

But after four coaches (Agler, Johnson, Trammel, and Kolcanes) have been unable to harness her tremendous talent into being a highly efficient player (or even a moderately good efficient one) in the professional ranks, one wonders if this is just who she is going to be as a WNBA player.

 

[BobbyJ]

In terms of the talent he has, Nalyssa Smith has never been a reliable shooter from the midrange or beyond the arc. That tempers the offensive options for a team with a true center (Teaira McCowan) whose game is in the restricted area.
And while DiJonai Carrington is a very good perimeter defender, she is not a consistent shooter.
Pairing them with a ball dominant and inconsistent shooter in Arike Ogunbowale is not a recipe for success, even with Arike's immense talent and Paige's elite point guard skills.

Kolcanes did not put the roster together.

Again I agree with your overall points except for Ogunbowale. Between being as you say an inconsistent shooter and playing no defense, where or what is her immense talent?

 

[CL82]

In terms of the talent he has, Nalyssa Smith has never been a reliable shooter from the midrange or beyond the arc. That tempers the offensive options for a team with a true center (Teaira McCowan) whose game is in the restricted area.
And while DiJonai Carrington is a very good perimeter defender, she is not a consistent shooter.
Pairing them with a ball dominant and inconsistent shooter in Arike Ogunbowale is not a recipe for success, even with Arike's immense talent and Paige's elite point guard skills.

Kolcanes did not put the roster together.

On the other hand, in the games, I've watched there are a lot of questionable decisions, including drives into three defenders on the break while the trailer has an open lane to the basket, jacking up logo threes instead of swinging the ball or looking for the cutter. I've seen multiple times where Paige cuts to the basket hands up only to be ignored. That's what I mean when I talk about not doing much with the talent he has. Basically, the team plays like a boys AAU summer team.

I haven't seen a game for a while, so that may have changed. I noticed in the most recent box score. The scoring was more or less equally split between Paige and Arike, and Arike had five assists. That's a good sign.

 

[HuskyNan]

The thing is, at Notre Dame, Arike Ogunbowale was a far more efficient shooter/scorer --- 44% from the floor, 39.3 percent from three, and 77.0 percent from the line.
She also averaged 4.6 rebounds per game for her career. And in her last two seasons, she put up 3.3 assists per contest with a career A/TO of nearly 2-to-1.

But after four coaches (Agler, Johnson, Trammel, and Kolcanes) have been unable to harness her tremendous talent into being a highly efficient player (or even a moderately good efficient one) in the professional ranks, one wonders if this is just who she is going to be as a WNBA player.

ND had scorers (Mabrey #1, Jackie Young, Brianna Turner, Jessica Shepard) that forced defenders to decide who to guard. Arike capitalized, as she should have. Now, she’s the only threat and is drawing double teams from the best guards in the country and shots aren’t as easy to find. So, she’s trying too hard, forcing shots, and doesn’t know what to do when the shots don’t fall. She is a shooter - even her ND bio highlights her scoring.

I’m guessing she’s thrilled Paige is there to draw the defense away but Arike is not capitalizing.

 

[CamrnCrz1974]

Again I agree with your overall points except for Ogunbowale. Between being as you say an inconsistent shooter and playing no defense, where or what is her immense talent?

Arike's ability to generate offense one-on-one is truly elite. Her handle/crossover to cause defenders to shift, thereby creating space,, is elite. She is considered one of the most prolific scorers in the league -- and has been for some time.

 

[baggerbob]

Fair enough. But I think Arike would have been more effective as a more well-rounded basketball player rather than a shooter. She’s forcing shots now and when they don’t go in, doesn’t have another effective facet to her game to go to.

Every UConn fan knows when shots don’t fall, players work to tighten up the defense, set a screen for a teammate, focus on rebounding, or drive to the hoop- anything that helps the team. Geno harps on this. Coaching matters

I agree, she got away with being a gunner at Notre Dame because that was the kind of offense McGraw ran . Whoever had the first open shot took it.

 

[BobbyJ]

Arike's ability to generate offense one-on-one is truly elite. Her handle/crossover to cause defenders to shift, thereby creating space,, is elite. She is considered one of the most prolific scorers in the league -- and has been for some time.

We obviously have different opinions of what immense and truly elite mean. It doesn't take elite talent to shoot 39%-34% and give it away at the other end but look good doing it. I see her game as one dimensional and nothing special. A lot of WNBA guards could score 18-22 ppg if they shot between 500 and 750 shots a season.

 

[CamrnCrz1974]

We obviously have different opinions of what immense and truly elite mean. It doesn't take elite talent to shoot 39%-34% and give it away at the other end but look good doing it. I see her game as one dimensional and nothing special. A lot of WNBA guards could score 18-22 ppg if they shot between 500 and 750 shots a season.

You did not read my post as to what I said made her elite.
Post in thread 'Paige Doing Paige Stuff'
Paige Doing Paige Stuff

 

[RockyMTblue2]

A nice relaxing pregame warmup ... right?

 

[BobbyJ]

You did not read my post as to what I said made her elite.
Post in thread 'Paige Doing Paige Stuff'
Paige Doing Paige Stuff

Yes, I read it. She has flashy crossover moves that shift the D and create space for her to miss a lot of shots while her teammates watch in a stagnant offense. This allows her to score a prolific 18-22 ppg while doing nothing to get her teammates involved and contribute to winning many games. I don’t consider that to be elite talent but will watch to see which if any GMs will be willing to pay top money for it in her free agency this coming offseason.

 

[Bone Dog]

This is just an unhinged assessment backed by no evidence, but unless she’s forced to go, I don’t expect Paige will try to leave Dallas. I also wouldn’t be surprised to hear that she wants to make it work with Arike, just as I think (along with @HuskyNan) that Arike wants this too. Events may intervene and prevent it, but on her side Paige is not a quitter. She does not give up on teammates.

On her side, Arike seems to harbor a grudge against the league (or the world) about lack of respect for her talent. The arrival of Paige could have exacerbated this, but instead she seems to have embraced this development. Perhaps she recognizes a turning point in her career and sees working with Paige as a way to make the best of it. I will be surprised if she ends up trying to leave a situation with Paige that might just retrieve her career.

I don’t care for ball-dominant players generally. But I feel for Arike in this moment. She has to rethink her game with little help from her coaches or most of her teammates. All there is for her to work with is Paige, and lucky for her Paige is the player most willing to try to make it work with her teammates. It’s a new idiom for Arike and she may not be all that comfortable in it and minor missteps abound along the way.

I’m reminded of a transition play a few games ago in which Paige tipped a pass away and it ended up in Arike’s hands. Naturally, Paige streaks down the floor and Arike follows dribbling the ball. She failed to do the smart thing and simply hit Paige with a long pass from midcourt. But she hangs on to it for too long and finally only gives the ball up to Paige around the free throw line. Paige scores, though it’s a more difficult finish then if Arike had passed it much sooner. This play looks to me like it encapsulates Arike’s dilemma and how difficult it is for her to change all her habits on the fly. I don’t think Paige will want to give up on her.

 

[YKCornelius]

This is just an unhinged assessment backed by no evidence, but unless she’s forced to go, I don’t expect Paige will try to leave Dallas. I also wouldn’t be surprised to hear that she wants to make it work with Arike, just as I think (along with @HuskyNan) that Arike wants this too. Events may intervene and prevent it, but on her side Paige is not a quitter. She does not give up on teammates.

On her side, Arike seems to harbor a grudge against the league (or the world) about lack of respect for her talent. The arrival of Paige could have exacerbated this, but instead she seems to have embraced this development. Perhaps she recognizes a turning point in her career and sees working with Paige as a way to make the best of it. I will be surprised if she ends up trying to leave a situation with Paige that might just retrieve her career.

I don’t care for ball-dominant players generally. But I feel for Arike in this moment. She has to rethink her game with little help from her coaches or most of her teammates. All there is for her to work with is Paige, and lucky for her Paige is the player most willing to try to make it work with her teammates. It’s a new idiom for Arike and she may not be all that comfortable in it and minor missteps abound along the way.

I’m reminded of a transition play a few games ago in which Paige tipped a pass away and it ended up in Arike’s hands. Naturally, Paige streaks down the floor and Arike follows dribbling the ball. She failed to do the smart thing and simply hit Paige with a long pass from midcourt. But she hangs on to it for too long and finally only gives the ball up to Paige around the free throw line. Paige scores, though it’s a more difficult finish then if Arike had passed it much sooner. This play looks to me like it encapsulates Arike’s dilemma and how difficult it is for her to change all her habits on the fly. I don’t think Paige will want to give up on her.

Bone Dog, I agree on both assessments that neither Paige or Arike will want to give up on the situation. That said, I believe the decision to stay or leave in Arike's case should not be left to her - even to influence. There is a lot that has to change in her game, and it requires a lot of energy, time and commitment to change from her. And the clock is ticking....

Arike's defense is horrendous. Not surprisingly (??), the Wings TV commentators have noted that Arike led the league last year in steals, and have presented that factoid as proof that she is a good defender. Utter nonsense. I have subscribed to watching WNBA games and replays on TV for the past five three years, and Arike's steals largely occur from trying to swipe at dribblers and passers - that's it. Furthermore, those deflections almost always occur before the opponent sets up their offense. It is evident to me that time and time again - including this year - the opponent is trying to isolate their guard play on Arike, knowing her defense is bad and that Arike (seemingly) doesn't want to risk picking up fouls. If Arike misses at swiping at the ball, her opponent has blown by her.

I am convinced, however, she will not be able to change on her own. AND, it will be difficult to change substantially in mid-season. I believe she and at least one dedicated coach need to sit down together and go through game film ad nauseum. She needs to somehow learn exactly what and when specific offensive and defensive actions need to be taken in order to be part of a successful team concept on both sides of the court. Presuming she learned any defense at ND, she has to be taught how to adjust that knowledge so that it translate at the faster, more talented level in the WNBA.

I think the best path for Arike is to hope that either of the expansion teams (Toronto and Portland) will have an interest in her. I can't see any of the current clubs wanting to have to deal with trying to integrate her into a team concept.

 

[WiseWillie]

This is just an unhinged assessment backed by no evidence, but unless she’s forced to go, I don’t expect Paige will try to leave Dallas. I also wouldn’t be surprised to hear that she wants to make it work with Arike, just as I think (along with @HuskyNan) that Arike wants this too. Events may intervene and prevent it, but on her side Paige is not a quitter. She does not give up on teammates.

On her side, Arike seems to harbor a grudge against the league (or the world) about lack of respect for her talent. The arrival of Paige could have exacerbated this, but instead she seems to have embraced this development. Perhaps she recognizes a turning point in her career and sees working with Paige as a way to make the best of it. I will be surprised if she ends up trying to leave a situation with Paige that might just retrieve her career.

I don’t care for ball-dominant players generally. But I feel for Arike in this moment. She has to rethink her game with little help from her coaches or most of her teammates. All there is for her to work with is Paige, and lucky for her Paige is the player most willing to try to make it work with her teammates. It’s a new idiom for Arike and she may not be all that comfortable in it and minor missteps abound along the way.

I’m reminded of a transition play a few games ago in which Paige tipped a pass away and it ended up in Arike’s hands. Naturally, Paige streaks down the floor and Arike follows dribbling the ball. She failed to do the smart thing and simply hit Paige with a long pass from midcourt. But she hangs on to it for too long and finally only gives the ball up to Paige around the free throw line. Paige scores, though it’s a more difficult finish then if Arike had passed it much sooner. This play looks to me like it encapsulates Arike’s dilemma and how difficult it is for her to change all her habits on the fly. I don’t think Paige will want to give up on her.

BD, I think you have described the current situation Erike vis a vis Paige pretty darn well. Nothin more to add except that if ever there was a player to depend on for helping a team it is Paige. She is the consummate teammate always pushing herself to improve and striving for the best in herself and her teammates.