Paige as NPOY

[jabstep]

Kind of funny how the landscape keeps shifting. Honestly, Clark has played her way into first team AA status. Her resume has gotten a lot better in the last two weeks (improved efficiency) and the last two hours (signature performance in a big win). If it was National Player of the Second Half of February, frankly she’d win by a landslide. But just being first team A-A is impressive, I think Paige and Clark will be the third and fourth to ever do it if it happens.

On the flip side, Clark did a favor when she helped knock Hillmon back a peg. UM has lost two games recently and doesn’t really have as impressive body of work as a team as they did two weeks ago. Hard to give NPOY to a player who lost by 30 to an unranked team. Similarly Evans had a clunker over the weekend ... and Boston isn’t even getting the ball any more and rarely scores 10 points. Howard had a poor effort against SC, Collier had a poor effort against Baylor, etc.

Paige has had pedestrian numbers the last two games which maybe hurts a little bit, in the sense of her overall scoring averages and percentages have taken a minor hit (scoring down from 21.3 to 20.1 - three point percentage down from 55 to 52). They were lopsided wins where we were up huge early, so it doesn’t really matter if you look closely, but if she does this twice more and finishes at 19.5 ppg, I could see losing a couple votes just by not having that first number start with a 2. Realistically, her resume was finished against Seton Hall - we had just beaten SC and she helped put SH away when they were hanging around - although Marquette has the potential to keep it tight Monday.

But as always, this is all just more in fun ... and the bigger issue is getting the team ready to roll for the postseason. Nika getting her shooting confidence back was way more important today than Paige scoring 20-25, and if we can do the same for Evina in the next couple games and keep CW rolling, we’ll be positioned better for March. If that means Paige scores 10-12 twice and loses NPOY, so be it.

Paige is doesn't play for numbers. She could get her shot off of screens all game long. What she does is try and get her teammates going if they are in a slump to build their confidence back up. She will look for her shot if her teammates are missing or are deferring to her. They know who she is and how good she is. Like in the game yesterday against Creighton, Liv Nelson Ododa had zero points in the first half and didn't need to score since Muhl was on fire but in the second half Paige ran some pick and rolls with Liv to get her into double figures and she is always looking to throw her Touchdown passes to Christyn Williams on fastbreaks. She is the consummate PG. She is as good as Sabrina was in her senior year and far superior to her as a freshman. She has my vote all the way.

 

[eebmg]

The more I think about it, the more convinced I am that Paige really does not want so much attention so early. Of course, when called upon in a big close game, she will do what is needed including take over the game if necessary but in these BE games, it is far more important to get everyone involved and feeling good about their games.

In particular, you have to take into account that most of the UConn players have very clear career goals to go to the next level (WNBA or at least international ball) so I think Paige takes seriously the idea that she needs to help her teammates, not overshadow them. From a personal standpoint, her career path into the WNBA and ultimately the National team is pretty obvious (now) so scoring 30pts a night and getting all the press clippings now as a Freshman having to carry her team (this was the focus of every news story) risks team chemistry and fosters underlying jealously.

I would not be surprised if Paige and Geno really talk about such stuff with Paige stubbornly insisting she must always facilitate first for team chemistry. Especially since she is with the team every minute of the day on and off the court so she can gauge her teammates feelings much better than the coaches.

Clearly, this is not an issue with Clark at Iowa. I am sure her teammates are more than happy to ride her game as far as they can and if it gets her the FPOY and who knows, NPOY??, I don't think Paige cares one iota.

 

[Argonaut]

As much as I want Paige to win every award there is to win, I'd argue that this stretch where she's slashed her points and doubled her assists is best for the team in the long run. It's getting more players involved and confident, which is exactly what we need going into the tournament.

We obviously shouldn't rely on Paige scoring 30+ a night (even though we know she can against nearly every team), but her teammates need to know that they can score and make an impact, too. What does Iowa do when Clark doesn't score 25-30?

At the end of the day, we know she believes that winning (and winning a NC) and being a good teammate are more important than any personal accolade she'll ever receive. Doesn't matter to her if she's NFOY or NPOY if she's sitting on the couch on April 4.

 

[SVCBeercats]

Does the NPOY depend more on the media's hyperbole? Is ESPN still pushing their NPOY choice, Rhyne Howard, at season start? Or are they now going to puch Collier since she is seen as the #1 WNBA draft pick? So. Caro. Boston? Can they ignore marketing (against FOX Sports' BE TV) and embrace objectivity? Objectivity as in what we, BoneYarders, possess about this topic.

The case for Paige Bueckers to win national player of the year

Bueckers has a convincing argument to become the first-ever freshman to take home the award.

www.theuconnblog.com

 

[CocoHusky]

Does the NPOY depend more on the media's hyperbole? Is ESPN still pushing their NPOY choice, Rhyne Howard, at season start? Or are they now going to puch Collier since she is seen as the #1 WNBA draft pick? So. Caro. Boston? Can they ignore marketing (against FOX Sports' BE TV) and embrace objectivity? Objectivity as in what we, BoneYarders, possess about this topic.

The case for Paige Bueckers to win national player of the year

Bueckers has a convincing argument to become the first-ever freshman to take home the award.

www.theuconnblog.com

I'm still not sure why some think there is an ESPN ant-UCONN or Anti-Paige "campaign" but... Charli Collier is not in conversation for POY.

Who's the top 2020-21 player of the year candidate in every women's college basketball conference?

From Louisville's Dana Evans in the ACC to Gonzaga's Jenn Wirth in the WCC, we break down which players have stood out in each conference.

www.espn.com

 

[Gurleyman]

I'm still not sure why some think there is an ESPN ant-UCONN or Anti-Paige "campaign" but... Charli Collier is not in conversation for POY.

Who's the top 2020-21 player of the year candidate in every women's college basketball conference?

From Louisville's Dana Evans in the ACC to Gonzaga's Jenn Wirth in the WCC, we break down which players have stood out in each conference.

www.espn.com

Interesting Conference POY picks. I felt like Boston has been sliding lately but they still have her No. 1 in SEC. Howard has struggled at times, but a couple recent big games (27 yesterday in a tight win over UGA). In the PAC, Neither McDonald nor Jones has been all that impressive this year. McDonald shoots poorly and Jones has become pretty ordinary. Feel like UCLA’s kid should sneak in there. Owusu has been overlooked a bit for Maryland so interesting to see her No. 2 behind Hillmon - she’s held that team together amid roster turnover so she’s worthy. I’d lean Smith over Mack in B12 for team success, but they are pretty close. Gondrezick for WV also gets overlooked a bit.

 

[j66kicker]

I'm still not sure why some think there is an ESPN ant-UCONN or Anti-Paige "campaign" but... Charli Collier is not in conversation for POY.

Who's the top 2020-21 player of the year candidate in every women's college basketball conference?

From Louisville's Dana Evans in the ACC to Gonzaga's Jenn Wirth in the WCC, we break down which players have stood out in each conference.

www.espn.com

I don't see an anti-UConn or anti-Paige bias on ESPN or their family of conference networks. There might be a couple individual announcers who are haters, but overall I think the opposite is true, if anything.

Example: Yesterday during the Kentucky-Georgia game on SECN (ESPN) Carolyn Peck was hyping up Rhyne Howard pretty good for SEC POY and national POY. But they showed a Paige-Rhyne side-by-side comparison graphic showing Paige ahead on PPG and APG with Rhyne ahead only on RPG. There was no real compelling need for them to bring Paige into the conversation. This is not something they would do if the network was anti-Paige or anti-UConn.

 

[CocoHusky]

I don't see an anti-UConn or anti-Paige bias on ESPN or their family of conference networks. There might be a couple individual announcers who are haters, but overall I think the opposite is true, if anything.

Example: Yesterday during the Kentucky-Georgia game on SECN (ESPN) Caroline Peck was hyping up Rhyne Howard pretty good for SEC POY and national POY. But they showed a Paige-Rhyne side-by-side comparison graphic showing Paige ahead on PPG and APG with Rhyne ahead only on RPG. There was no real compelling need for them to bring Paige into the conversation. This is not something they would do if the network was anti-Paige or anti-UConn.

That's kind of the way I've always seen it, not just this year but always. First of all, if ESPN was not covering WCBB I hate to think where WCBB would be. Second you can't effectively cover WCBB and ignore or even down play UCONN. Third you mention the ESPN affiliated networks like the SEC and I don't understand why some UCONN fans can't seem to comprehend that those networks have to be promoted with content and UCONN is not a part of that content.

 

[UConnCat]

Example: Yesterday during the Kentucky-Georgia game on SECN (ESPN) Carolyn Peck was hyping up Rhyne Howard pretty good for SEC POY and national POY. But they showed a Paige-Rhyne side-by-side comparison graphic showing Paige ahead on PPG and APG with Rhyne ahead only on RPG. There was no real compelling need for them to bring Paige into the conversation. This is not something they would do if the network was anti-Paige or anti-UConn.

Interesting that Peck is on the Howard bandwagon. I do my best not to pay attention to what Peck has to say so I don't know if she has consistently supported Howard for the award or if she's a recent convert. Howard has the talent to be NPOY but I've seen games in which she seemed indifferent to what was happening on the court. Both Tenn games come to mind. Heading in to the season I thought Boston would win it but there have been too many games with her not getting the ball enough.

As upperclassmen go I guess I favor Dana Evans.

 

[dtbtbtb]

Can ESPN get behind a player that they don't have the TV rights to promote and show her games?

 

[Waquoit]

Joens from ISU hung 32 on SC, but the Hawkeyes lost by 20+.

I believe you meant to say Cyclones?

It's called "pulling a Joe D.".

 

[Waquoit]

Paige isn't going to win but she will be 1st team AA. That's fine.

 

[TB12]

I agree Paige does not care for the award. I think to get it she would have to be getting 20 - 30 points per game this lsat stretch and the rest of the season. She hasn't so she will not get it. The voters do not watch her every game. she needs the points per game and % averages. WE know she is the NPOY. She however putting her team in the best possible position for a NC. SHE WANTS THAT! and so do I.

 

[Sluconn Husky]

Does the NPOY depend more on the media's hyperbole? Is ESPN still pushing their NPOY choice, Rhyne Howard, at season start? Or are they now going to puch Collier since she is seen as the #1 WNBA draft pick? So. Caro. Boston? Can they ignore marketing (against FOX Sports' BE TV) and embrace objectivity? Objectivity as in what we, BoneYarders, possess about this topic.

The case for Paige Bueckers to win national player of the year

Bueckers has a convincing argument to become the first-ever freshman to take home the award.

www.theuconnblog.com

Megan Gauer has an update since last night. I don't know how much the press looks at Win Shares, but if they do....

 

[Sluconn Husky]

Paige isn't going to win but she will be 1st team AA. That's fine.

So who do you believe will win? I keep coming back to who is a better player and I can't think of any. As noted below, Natasha Mack is having a spectacular season and, except for the fact that OSU is 17-7, should really be getting much more recognition. She's been better overall than Hillmon, imo. A big question is how much team record should matter. If we go on the eye test and statistics, I think I'd have it Bueckers, Mack, Clark, Howard, Evans, and Hillmon though I don't know where to put Collier.

 

[CocoHusky]

So who do you believe will win? I keep coming back to who is a better player and I can't think of any. As noted below, Natasha Mack is having a spectacular season and, except for the fact that OSU is 17-7, should really be getting much more recognition. She's been better overall than Hillmon, imo. A big question is how much team record should matter. If we go on the eye test and statistics, I think I'd have it Bueckers, Mack, Clark, Howard, Evans, and Hillmon though I don't know where to put Collier.

We keep talking POY as in singular when in reality there are multiple POY awards which have been split before. The awards could be split this way:

WBCA FOY.- Clark
Wade Trophy- Evans
Naismith- Bueckers
Honda- Hillmon
AP- Howard

 

[eebmg]

Megan Gauer has an update since last night. I don't know how much the press looks at Win Shares, but if they do....

Is their a website where the Winshares of all D1 players are calculated/displayed? I do not see it onthe NCAA.com website

 

[Sluconn Husky]

We keep talking POY as in singular when in reality there are multiple POY awards which have been split before. The awards could be split this way:

WBCA FOY.- Clark
Wade Trophy- Evans
Naismith- Bueckers
Honda- Hillmon
AP- Howard

Seems a bit odd to give Clark FOY if Paige gets a NPOY award.

 

[Sluconn Husky]

Is their a website where the Winshares of all D1 players are calculated/displayed? I do not see it onthe NCAA.com website

Her Hoops Stats has them but you have to pay $20 a year for their advanced stats.

The #1 source for women's basketball insight used by coaches, broadcasters, players, and fans

Traditional and Advanced Statistics for Teams and Players, Leaderboards, Ranks, Team Comparisons, Schedules, Rosters, Game Logs, and more

herhoopstats.com

 

[Cuango]

More often than not, within the past decade the NPOY as been on one of the top ranking teams, who also went relatively deep into the tourney. When players got it but, their teams didn’t do well in the tourney were:
1: the early Baylor exit due to Shoni Schimmel’s heroics
2: Kelsey Plum was averaging over 30 points a game, eventually becoming the scoring leader in Division 1
3: Napheesa being overlooked for Megan Gustafson
4: Sabrina Ionescu. Regardless of whatever participation banner is hanging in someone’s gym, we all know Oregon would have won it all last year

Of Hillsman, Paige, and Evans, only Pagie and Evans have a real opportunity in playing in April. I don’t believe Boston is in the running, as her numbers are not similar to the other three. That’s in large part due to her guards trying to get their points too.

Boston’s use on that team just makes you wonder what Dawn can possibly be thinking. Her last two games she has only taken four shots in each game, scoring 7 and 4 points respectively. How can you have a post player widely acknowledged as the best in the country (and certainly the best player on the team) taking 4 shots in consecutive games? Meanwhile, your guard is shooting 7 for 17 and 7 for 23 in the same games. That is .... perplexing, to say the least.

 

[j66kicker]

Can ESPN get behind a player that they don't have the TV rights to promote and show her games?

I don’t know about “get behind”, but go to the ESPN.com “NCAAW” page and start scrolling. Certainly no shortage of Paige Beuckers highlight videos.

 

[Gurleyman]

So who do you believe will win? I keep coming back to who is a better player and I can't think of any. As noted below, Natasha Mack is having a spectacular season and, except for the fact that OSU is 17-7, should really be getting much more recognition. She's been better overall than Hillmon, imo. A big question is how much team record should matter. If we go on the eye test and statistics, I think I'd have it Bueckers, Mack, Clark, Howard, Evans, and Hillmon though I don't know where to put Collier.

Team success always makes a big difference. You basically start looking for NPOY types by seeing who are the best players on the top handful of teams. Stewart didn’t win the stats war over the competition by any means, but it didn’t matter. Then there’s a bit of a sliding scale where an individual putting up crazy numbers and carrying a team (Gustafson, Plum, Stiles, etc.) can win outside the top 10 (Iowa and UW were ranked 12 or so, and SEMO was a 5 seed, so they were probably ranked). It’s not impossible for a Clark type to win putting up huge numbers without being ranked high, but it takes the top teams being balanced or having candidates whose resumes are flawed. Stanford, NC State, A&M and SC are indeed balanced, and if Paige and Evans at No. 6 had the same averages shooting 40 percent with more turnovers (say, Aari McDonald’s numbers), you could say candidates outside the top 10 were better by a margin significant enough to leapfrog.

Collier is one of those big numbers, low team success players, and looks like the top WNBA prospect, but her issue is poor performances in big spots. Ok State got rolled by Baylor, but Mack still got her 24+12 or thereabouts. Texas got rolled by Baylor and Collier had two points and five rebounds — and she had clunkers in other losses too. She might be fifth in her conference POY vote, depending on how you feel about Joens and Gondrezick.

But ultimately humans vote, and everyone will have their own biases and their own criteria (and perhaps their own levels of laziness with research).

 

[eebmg]

I know the NPOY awards don't include the NCAA tournament but do they take into account the Conference Tournaments?

 

[CocoHusky]

I know the NPOY awards don't include the NCAA tournament but do they take into account the Conference Tournaments?

No. The NPOY awards take into account regular season only.

 

[DefenseBB]

Interesting that Peck is on the Howard bandwagon. I do my best not to pay attention to what Peck has to say so I don't know if she has consistently supported Howard for the award or if she's a recent convert. Howard has the talent to be NPOY but I've seen games in which she seemed indifferent to what was happening on the court. Both Tenn games come to mind. Heading in to the season I thought Boston would win it but there have been too many games with her not getting the ball enough.

As upperclassmen go I guess I favor Dana Evans.

Carolyn "@#$@%^&" Peck is a constant shill for the SEC, be it SC, Texas A&M or Tennessee (how many times has she told us she was an assistant for Pat Summitt???) or Rhyne Howard, her very pointed comments ignore any statistics or logic. I now turn all the sound off on her telecasts. Rant over...