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Ouch! It must really suck

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4 is just terrible in this draft, you have the two big studs and then Russell.
 
Justice Winslow. Putting him with Melo immediately balances out your wing and brings in an athletic active, high-level defender with pro size who improved immensely on O over the course of a season at Duke. He can finish with authority but also draws fouls a decent rate and should be a good 3-point shooter. Also, I know this will draw criticism, but give me the kid from Duke who was remarkable in the tourney over the one who chose to play pro in China for a year. Nothing personal, get that paper.

Screw the triangle, start small with Melo at the 4.

Now for a Complete Fantasy

Dragic/P Beverly
D Green/Hardaway Jr.
Winslow/IDK
Melo/D West
Gasol/Lopez (I wold imagine Monroe is far more likely)

If you can get rid of Clderon without taking back money this might actually fit under the salary cap and would leave room to spare when it skyrockets next season. Close to $30 mil in both the back court and the front court, but they would only have about $23 mil committed originally. Deadly from 3 but can go huge with west at the 4 and winslow at the 2. Beverley and Winslow at the 2-3 is lockdown duo with Gasol protecting them at the rim. Easily top 2 in the east and a title contender.
 
Scoe said:
How many titles did Jordan/Pippen, Shaq/Kobe win before he got there.
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Not only that, but look at how the Lakers face-planted once Phil left. Meanwhile, after Jordan - the consensus best basketball player of all-time - left to play baseball, Jackson still had the Bulls over 50 wins.

FWIW I think his system & priorities are out-dated, and so far he's a terrible GM. But he was an an amazing basketball coach.
 
Matrim55 said:
Not only that, but look at how the Lakers face-planted once Phil left. Meanwhile, after Jordan - the consensus best basketball player of all-time - left to play baseball, JACKSON STILL HAD THE BULLS OVER 50 WINS.

FWIW I think his system & priorities are out-dated, and so far he's a terrible GM. But he was an an amazing basketball coach.
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Not only that but if it wasnt for a bs foul call on Pippen vs the Knicks the Bulls go to another NBA Finals.
 
nyhusky89 said:
Justice Winslow. Putting him with Melo immediately balances out your wing and brings in an athletic active, high-level defender with pro size who improved immensely on O over the course of a season at Duke. He can finish with authority but also draws fouls a decent rate and should be a good 3-point shooter.
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I think a lot of people are sleeping on Winslow. He can shoot and is going to get better. Can slash to the basket and score against contact and he can post up pretty good and with a 6`10 wingspan he can score over most g/sf wholl guard him. Hes got a lot of versatility in his game and i think hes going to be an all star on the next level. If im the knicks and Russell is off the board i take Winslow even though he plays the same position as Melo.
 
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The whole draft I wanted Mudiay or Russell so it didnt matter unless we get pick #5

I want Jordan Mickey later in the draft if we can get another pick
 
TheChamps990411 said:
The hate is strong with you. What players did Riley have? Auerbach? Popovich? How many titles did those players have before Phil? After?
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He's a good coach no better or worse than the others, I don't I so how to tell you thins another way he's an arse. Believe it if you want or don't ip to you.
 
Let me clarify

He's a good coach - no better or worse than the others top tier coaches of their respective generations. The triangle was Tex Winters, the literally wrote the book on it -called "The Triple Post" - and Jackson applied it to the personnel that Krause or Mitch provided, Krause hired Tex in Chicago, they had some relationship that I can't recall the specifics of before Tex got hired there. Tex really taught the triangle and the various nuances of it, not Phol.

I don't know how to tell you this another way he's an arse. That wasn't always the case to the degree it is now, but accolades can do that to people sometimes. Always a fineline between arrogance and confidence - he kind of nudged past that in LA, but it was tolerated because of the success - we'll see how the knick fans toleratte the "I'm the smartest guy in the room act" as GM without success.

Hos ability to be a isnt made up - lots of data points on that, believe it or not that's up to you. It's not hate, I just don't enjoy arrogant people. Theres lots of personal and anecdotal support for support my perspective.
 
Northbound said:
Let me clarify

He's a good coach - no better or worse than the others top tier coaches of their respective generations. The triangle was Tex Winters, the literally wrote the book on it -called "The Triple Post" - and Jackson applied it to the personnel that Krause or Mitch provided, Krause hired Tex in Chicago, they had some relationship that I can't recall the specifics of before Tex got hired there. Tex really taught the triangle and the various nuances of it, not Phol.

I don't know how to tell you this another way he's an arse. That wasn't always the case to the degree it is now, but accolades can do that to people sometimes. Always a fineline between arrogance and confidence - he kind of nudged past that in LA, but it was tolerated because of the success - we'll see how the knick fans toleratte the "I'm the smartest guy in the room act" as GM without success.

Hos ability to be a isnt made up - lots of data points on that, believe it or not that's up to you. It's not hate, I just don't enjoy arrogant people. Theres lots of personal and anecdotal support for support my perspective.
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I agree with you that at about any given time in the NBA, 20 of the coaches are about the same in terms of ability. But there are always about 5 that distinctly make their team better, and he's one of them. He never had a losing season, and in 20 seasons he won at least 50 games 17 times.

It seems like you dislike him personally for some reason and are letting that cloud your judgement.
 
This is absurd.

1) Phil Jackson's won 11 NBA championships. That's an number in arguments like this.

2) Tex Winter's won zero titles at any level. He spent two decades getting fired everywhere he went until the Bulls hired him.

The head coach, not the assistant coach, runs the show. Winter coached the triangle because Phil Jackson wanted to run the triangle - Jackson put Winter into the Hall of Fame, not the other way around.

(And, not for nothing, but while he wrote a book, Winter didn't invent the triangle. He, like Jackson, added to it, but Winter's college coach Sam Berry invented it. He wrote the book before Tex Winter wrote the book. These days, there's also a guy coaching women's basketball who seems to be using it to win championships every year....)
 
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After Dolan forced Donnie Walsh out, I gave up. I will not watch another minute of the Knicks while Dolan owns them. They are dead to me.
 
Fishy said:
This is absurd.

1) Phil Jackson's won 11 NBA championships. That's an number in arguments like this.

2) Tex Winter's won zero titles at any level. He spent two decades getting fired everywhere he went until the Bulls hired him.

The head coach, not the assistant coach, runs the show. Winter coached the triangle because Phil Jackson wanted to run the triangle - Jackson put Winter into the Hall of Fame, not the other way around.

(And, not for nothing, but while he wrote a book, Winter didn't invent the triangle. He, like Jackson, added to it, but Winter's college coach Sam Berry invented it. He wrote the book before Tex Winter wrote the book. These days, there's also a guy coaching women's basketball who seems to be using it to win championships every year....)
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Dude we all should petition you to be on Jeopardy. You make many of us feel embarrassed (I didn't say stupid).

You're like a living wikipedia/google. . . . . . . . . . Ummmmmmm wait a.. . . . . . . . Nah, you the man for Jeopardy.
 
This is a continuing curse for us that has been strengthened into perpetuity because Dolan hired Isiah for the WNBA.
 
Kitaman said:
Dude we all should petition you to be on Jeopardy. You make many of us feel embarrassed (I didn't say stupid). You're like a living wikipedia/google. . . . . . . . . . Ummmmmmm wait a.. . . . . . . . Nah, you the man for Jeopardy.
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There's this cool thing on a computer called a Google search. You can type words and hit enter. You will get information about those words.

One of my favorite things to do is sit quietly at a dinner table and when a topic comes up in which everyone is stumped as to answers or details, I slickly Google the subject, brush up on it, then answer all of their questions. People are always amazed at how much "I know". Cool thing is, from then on, I do know.
 
champs99and04 said:
You don't like Mudiay?
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I've seen very little of Mudiay and it was against high schoolers, he has some talent but I'm not sold on him. Definitely like Okafor, Towns and Russell more than him.
 
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If the Knicks stay flat and pick Mudiay at #4 I think they get the best player in the draft. I do not think C's have the same value they once did.

I would also be VERY aggressive trying to pick up a later 1 to pair Jordan Mickey with him and I like Josh Richardson either as a 50+ pick if we can acquire one or take my chances that he drops to UDFA.


That would give me two BIG athletic guards 6-5 and 6-6 who can both play PG and maybe the most under rated player in the draft Mickey.

Id then put all my efforts into grabbing Greg Monroe to be my C. He fits the triangle very well and at C with more space he should be really good. Finally to finish off Id cut Calderon and offer Carroll 50mm and grab Jerrelle Benimon and yes Hasheem Thabeet from the D league as my back up third string C and cutting Calderon to save 3.7mm towards the cap


Line up

C-Monroe (acquired 4 years 64mm)
PF Anthony
SF Carroll(acquired 4 years 50mm)
SG Galloway
PG Alexy Schvyed(signed using team MLE)


C Cole Aldrich
PF Mickey(acquired for 2017 #1 restricted to lottery)
F Thomas
G Hardaway
G Mudiay

C-Thabeet(vet minimum)
F Benimon 3 years 3mm non guaranteed
F Early
G Thansis A
PG Josh Richardson
 
If you don't like arrogant people how on earth can you follow sports? Or does that mandate root for losers?
Sure there's an occasional humble Tim Duncan but 95% of those in professional athletics are going to be full of themselves. Not too different in the rest of the world, though perhaps less tangible albeit possibly more meaningful reasons for it.
 
scrappy2.0 said:
If the Knicks stay flat and pick Mudiay at #4 I think they get the best player in the draft. I do not think C's have the same value they once did.

I would also be VERY aggressive trying to pick up a later 1 to pair Jordan Mickey with him and I like Josh Richardson either as a 50+ pick if we can acquire one or take my chances that he drops to UDFA.


That would give me two BIG athletic guards 6-5 and 6-6 who can both play PG and maybe the most under rated player in the draft Mickey.

Id then put all my efforts into grabbing Greg Monroe to be my C. He fits the triangle very well and at C with more space he should be really good. Finally to finish off Id cut Calderon and offer Carroll 50mm and grab Jerrelle Benimon and yes Hasheem Thabeet from the D league as my back up third string C and cutting Calderon to save 3.7mm towards the cap


Line up

C-Monroe (acquired 4 years 64mm)
PF Anthony
SF Carroll(acquired 4 years 50mm)
SG Galloway
PG Alexy Schvyed(signed using team MLE)


C Cole Aldrich
PF Mickey(acquired for 2017 #1 restricted to lottery)
F Thomas
G Hardaway
G Mudiay

C-Thabeet(vet minimum)
F Benimon 3 years 3mm non guaranteed
F Early
G Thansis A
PG Josh Richardson
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That team would absolutely suck.
 
superjohn said:
That team would absolutely suck.
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The Knicks won 17 games last year. I dont think adding three athletic rookies Monroe and Carroll would have a negative effect. I think Mickey is the next Serge Ibaka and I love Mudiay but I dont see them starting year 1. If you can show me a way to be better Id like to see it:))) my bet is you would have no clue!
 
scrappy2.0 said:
If the Knicks stay flat and pick Mudiay at #4 I think they get the best player in the draft. I do not think C's have the same value they once did.

I would also be VERY aggressive trying to pick up a later 1 to pair Jordan Mickey with him and I like Josh Richardson either as a 50+ pick if we can acquire one or take my chances that he drops to UDFA.


That would give me two BIG athletic guards 6-5 and 6-6 who can both play PG and maybe the most under rated player in the draft Mickey.

Id then put all my efforts into grabbing Greg Monroe to be my C. He fits the triangle very well and at C with more space he should be really good. Finally to finish off Id cut Calderon and offer Carroll 50mm and grab Jerrelle Benimon and yes Hasheem Thabeet from the D league as my back up third string C and cutting Calderon to save 3.7mm towards the cap


Line up

C-Monroe (acquired 4 years 64mm)
PF Anthony
SF Carroll(acquired 4 years 50mm)
SG Galloway
PG Alexy Schvyed(signed using team MLE)


C Cole Aldrich
PF Mickey(acquired for 2017 #1 restricted to lottery)
F Thomas
G Hardaway
G Mudiay

C-Thabeet(vet minimum)
F Benimon 3 years 3mm non guaranteed
F Early
G Thansis A
PG Josh Richardson
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This team would lose 70 games.....Alexy Schvyed lol
 
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scrappy2.0 said:
The Knicks won 17 games last year. I dont think adding three athletic rookies Monroe and Carroll would have a negative effect. I think Mickey is the next Serge Ibaka and I love Mudiay but I dont see them starting year 1. If you can show me a way to be better Id like to see it:))) my bet is you would have no clue!
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The goal isn't to go from 17 wins to 22 wins and add more cr@p to the team.
 
All I wanted all season was a Top 3 pick. Those two wins the last week of the regular season, SMH. Leave it to the Knicks...

#4 isn't awful from a general POV, I think Mudiay will be a good pro but based on his tape he's an awful fit for the Triangle. He's a typical modern NBA point guard who must be in a spread-the-floor/drive-and-kick offense where he's the centerpiece. He can't shoot, you don't want him playing off-the-ball and he won't space the floor. Also in the back of my mind I'm worried that he'll be a bust. I thought Dante Exum was unjustly hyped up last year and he was far from impressive this year. Russell would have been perfect but there is absolutely no way he doesn't go in the first three picks.

If they take Mudiay then Phil & Fisher have to be on the same page and agree to abandon the Triangle. Fisher may be willing to do so but it's all on Phil since he's making the pick and I don't think he'll want to ditch the system him that won him 11 titles. Ideally they'd move on from the Triangle, draft Mudiay, pursue a FA big like D. Jordan and move Melo back to the 4.

Winslow is a nice player but we undoubtedly have the worst roster in the NBA, it's not even close. A player like Winslow won't be a big enough of an impact guy IMO. I see him as a great glue guy but a 3rd/4th option on a good playoff team, we need more especially since we don't have our 1st rounder next year. Wonder if we'll lookin into Hezonja.

Really what I'm holding out hope for is that Russell/Mudiay impress the hell out of LA and go #2 to the Lakers. They have a lot of cap space and plenty of roster holes and there are some good free agent bigs but the PGs are garbage. They could draft a dynamic guard and then go grab a free agent big man like Gasol or potentially Aldridge/Love. If that happens then there is no way Philly will take the remaining big that Minny didn't draft #1 and Towns/Okafor will drop to us at #4. It's a pipedream but it's about all I have right now. :(
 
One ting ya gotta say 'bout dem Knick fans: dey got big dreams.
 
Northbound said:
Hos ability to be a isnt made up - lots of data points on that, believe it or not that's up to you. It's not hate, I just don't enjoy arrogant people. Theres lots of personal and anecdotal support for support my perspective.
Expand ...

I'm curious to see the data points. Have you charted this in excel? Do you have a line graph that tracks how Phil Jackson's doucheness has grown over time?
 
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