OUCH: Huffington Post singles out McCombs for assault

[EdgewoodNHV]

All this BS about the rape trail is a side show. The truth is, I find it extremely believable that UConn administrators and/or police officers did not take sexual assault allegations seriously because that is the culture we live in today. Already in this thread we've seen people denigrating the term "feminist" and asking why, if the victim was so scared, she didn't move, you know, because, you know, if she feels threatened, that's her problem, not the school's, right?

It sucks but I find it pretty likely. It legit happens all the time. Ask all the women you know in your life how believable it is. Because chances are, you know someone who has experienced this.

 

[BlueDogs]

Note the retraction at the bottom. Changes the facts rather significantly. Sounds like Lyle was being verbally abusive and yelling but there no physically abuse or obvious signs of physical abuse and the "witness" was reporting hearsay.

Nonetheless, it sounds like the University did not handle this well at all.

 

[huskymedic]

Look - there is clearly a national agenda in filing of the Title IX lawsuit (happening to universities all over the country) as well as the subsequent Federal lawsuit filed by the four students. Once Allred was involved - it was too late.

That doesn't mean that some of the allegations in the student lawsuit are not true and indicative of a bigger issue on campus. I would suggest folks read the actual 38 page lawsuit in this article. http://www.ctmirror.org/story/2013/11/01/uconn-students-file-federal-lawsuit-over-universitys-handling-sexual-assaults (you need to eliminate spaces btwn s and e and e and x in the link or it won't work--- wtf!)

Even taking out the "lawsuit language hyperbole" - it's eye opening. I'm sure the truth is some where in the middle, maybe even closer to the university's side for a few of the cases but still...

 

[UConn07]

All this BS about the rape trail is a side show. The truth is, I find it extremely believable that UConn administrators and/or police officers did not take s e xual assault allegations seriously because that is the culture we live in today. Already in this thread we've seen people denigrating the term "feminist" and asking why, if the victim was so scared, she didn't move, you know, because, you know, if she feels threatened, that's her problem, not the school's, right?

It sucks but I find it pretty likely. It legit happens all the time. Ask all the women you know in your life how believable it is. Because chances are, you know someone who has experienced this.

I have a hard time believing that a state school, with a woman President, does not take sexual assaults seriously. This is going to be a he said she said scenario. I keep coming back to the fact that a number of these girls went to authorities, had their assaults investigated by the police and the police found no evidence of what they are saying happened. The police INVESTIGATED and could not do anything because there was no evidence. Is the police department 100% incompetent? Do they really not care about the students they serve? OR Are the girls in this looking for publicity and with it free money?

 

[Husky25]

I have a hard time believing that a state school, with a woman President, does not take s e xual assaults seriously. This is going to be a he said she said scenario. I keep coming back to the fact that a number of these girls went to authorities, had their assaults investigated by the police and the police found no evidence of what they are saying happened. The police INVESTIGATED and could not do anything because there was no evidence. Is the police department 100% incompetent? Do they really not care about the students they serve? OR Are the girls in this looking for publicity and with it free money?

You say you went to UConn. Do you remember anything about your time there? I have no problem believing the police investigation could have been sub-par. During my tenure (late 90's), the police seemed to resent the students. They filled more of a babysitter roll, as opposed to law enforcement. They worked to protect the school itself. Never once did I think the UConn Police where there for the greater good of the student body.

 

[Jerry1714]

As opposed to FSU?

This post is not only irrelevant but stupid.

This is a Uconn issue here, if you can kill someone at FSU and play do you think we should have those standards here?

Who cares about FSU, lets fix our own problems instead at pointing at others.

 

[freescooter]

Irish Loop, on the moving issue I'm saying that there isn't a shred of evidence, she doesn't even make an accusation, that anyone did anything to threaten her. She called the cops over a fight between two other people. Neither of them seem to have bothered her after the fact. If she claimed that one of them assaulted her,pushed her, threatened her, stalked her, yelled at her, even said things to her, I'd agree with you. But she makes no such claim. Somehow she got it in her mind that he was going to retaliate even though he didn't, he made no move in that direction that anyone reports at least, including the woman in question. Again, I think UConn seems to be doing a terrible job on this issue both in terms of how it handles things and in terms of public relations. And how is the university supposed to know she is "uncomfortable" living upstairs from a person who had a fight with his girlfriend unless she asks? If the standard is that every kid who has a fight with his/her significant other makes you uncomfortable, there isn't a dorm on campus where anyone can stay.

 

[upstater]

I wrote this because one of her questions against the UCONN administration in the original article is they didn't voluntarily move her housing location.

From her written piece in the Huffington Post: "Even if McCombs was entitled to know who his accusers were, why didn't she offer to move my living assignment or instate a no-contact policy?"

This is a common courtesy that law authorities offer witnesses. She's right, someone shouldn't be dissuaded form offering testimony out of fear.

 

[upstater]

I have a hard time believing that a state school, with a woman President, does not take s e xual assaults seriously. This is going to be a he said she said scenario. I keep coming back to the fact that a number of these girls went to authorities, had their assaults investigated by the police and the police found no evidence of what they are saying happened. The police INVESTIGATED and could not do anything because there was no evidence. Is the police department 100% incompetent? Do they really not care about the students they serve? OR Are the girls in this looking for publicity and with it free money?

Go to the other thread where I gave you an example of a state school, with a woman president, dropping the ball on sexual abuse of children by a music professor at UConn. The ball was dropped multiple times.

 

[uconnric]

Why should she have to move? She's not the one who is accused of committing a crime.

So why did she feal unsafe? There is nothing in that "article" that would lead me to believe that her safety was in jeopardy.

 

[UConn07]

Well I am currently on page 11 of the 38 page document and I've seen absolutely nothing that UCONN should have done differently. Maybe there will be something in the next 27 pages. They have so far claimed that UCONN should have been responsible and trained all members of a study abroad program in sexual assault in Spain. UCONN should have done something when someone in Spain, away from the UCONN sponsored hotel touched a girl inappropriately. Another claim is UCONN failed to act properly when Caroline Luby received threats and bad messages on facebook and twitter.

I'd be interested to see what some here wrote about Ms. Luby when that article broke about the new logo....I'm sure the thread is still around here somewhere...

 

[Penfield]

What I don't understand is why administrators at Universities all over the country don't take this stuff more seriously? It seems like it is being ignored all over the place and it makes no sense to me. Top it off with the fact that in this case it involves women being insensitive to the claims of other women. I guess it just flies in the face of all things I consider morally right and logical.

First - This stuff can not be ignored. It is simply wrong to do so. All accusations of s e xual assault need to be taken seriously. We should all understand this by now.

Second - when will these administrators realize that this stuff always comes back to bite you in the . The only logical reason I can think of that they cover this stuff up is to "protect" the schools (or whatever institution) and make them look better. In the end it only makes everyone look worse. If you really want to protect the school then protect the students. Get the perps off campus and protect the safety of the people entrusted to you that should be able to trust in you.

 

[EdgewoodNHV]

I have a hard time believing that a state school, with a woman President, does not take s e xual assaults seriously. This is going to be a he said she said scenario. I keep coming back to the fact that a number of these girls went to authorities, had their assaults investigated by the police and the police found no evidence of what they are saying happened. The police INVESTIGATED and could not do anything because there was no evidence. Is the police department 100% incompetent? Do they really not care about the students they serve? OR Are the girls in this looking for publicity and with it free money?

What does sexual assault evidence look like? A lot of the time, it looks exactly the same as consensual sex. there's no such thing as "proof." So if someone denies sexual assault, do we automatically believe them over the victim? How do we tell? As a society, the "burden of proof" breaks down severely in this situation, but given that 1 in 4 women on college campuses have experienced some kind of assault (nevermind how many are unreported), I don't think just assuming "no proof = no assault" is working particularly well.

Also, the idea that because we have a female President at UConn somehow affectgs what some beat cop tells some assault victim at 3 am on a Wednesday is comical at best.

 

[freescooter]

This is a common courtesy that law authorities offer witnesses. She's right, someone shouldn't be dissuaded form offering testimony out of fear.

There are probably a few thing at work here. Like she didn't witness Whitey Bulger gunning down a bystander in South Boston. She "witnessed" what turned out to be a spat between 2 college kids that apparently deteriorated into the pair spitting at each other. They were both arrested and apparently released without any further action. They probably both deserved to be sent to timeout for 10 minutes. Actually it was sort of like they were from the sounds of things. And from the quote she attributes to the administrator, she sounds like she has had some other issues, though again we don't know for sure. Nor does she indicate that she requested to have her housing assignment moved. One problem with only gettin gone side of the story is that you only get one side of the story.

 

[Penfield]

So why did she feal unsafe? There is nothing in that "article" that would lead me to believe that her safety was in jeopardy.

I would feel unsafe if I was in her position. She called the cops on her next door neighbor who happens to be a football player. On top of that she called the cops because he was assaulting another woman.

 

[EdgewoodNHV]

So why did she feal unsafe? There is nothing in that "article" that would lead me to believe that her safety was in jeopardy.

The folks at the center said they'd have to tell McCombs about her report. And she just watched this dude shove his girlfriend in front of everybody and nobody did anything. I'd probably feel a little afraid, too.

 

[EdgewoodNHV]

Irish Loop, on the moving issue I'm saying that there isn't a shred of evidence, she doesn't even make an accusation, that anyone did anything to threaten her. She called the cops over a fight between two other people.

It's a common notion that people who rat other people out to police are probably not safe. Especially when the police themselves admit they'll tell the perpetrator, who also happens to be a) way bigger and stronger than you, and b) apparently above the law.

I'd be afraid too.

 

[upstater]

What I don't understand is why administrators at Universities all over the country don't take this stuff more seriously? It seems like it is being ignored all over the place and it makes no sense to me. Top it off with the fact that in this case it involves women being insensitive to the claims of other women. I guess it just flies in the face of all things I consider morally right and logical.

First - This stuff can not be ignored. It is simply wrong to do so. All accusations of s e xual assault need to be taken seriously. We should all understand this by now.

Second - when will these administrators realize that this stuff always comes back to bite you in the . The only logical reason I can think of that they cover this stuff up is to "protect" the schools (or whatever institution) and make them look better. In the end it only makes everyone look worse. If you really want to protect the school then protect the students. Get the perps off campus and protect the safety of the people entrusted to you that should be able to trust in you.

It's because they are afraid of lawsuits, and their jobs. If you press the issue and become an advocate, then you are sticking your neck out. if you send them over to the police, well then you have done your duty. If the police drop the ball, well then....

 

[upstater]

There are probably a few thing at work here. Like she didn't witness Whitey Bulger gunning down a bystander in South Boston. She "witnessed" what turned out to be a spat between 2 college kids that apparently deteriorated into the pair spitting at each other. They were both arrested and apparently released without any further action. They probably both deserved to be sent to timeout for 10 minutes. Actually it was sort of like they were from the sounds of things. And from the quote she attributes to the administrator, she sounds like she has had some other issues, though again we don't know for sure. Nor does she indicate that she requested to have her housing assignment moved. One problem with only gettin gone side of the story is that you only get one side of the story.

Were you there? Sounds like you were there.

 

[freescooter]

What does s e xual assault evidence look like? A lot of the time, it looks exactly the same as consensual s e x. there's no such thing as "proof." So if someone denies s e xual assault, do we automatically believe them over the victim? How do we tell? As a society, the "burden of proof" breaks down severely in this situation, but given that 1 in 4 women on college campuses have experienced some kind of assault (nevermind how many are unreported), I don't think just assuming "no proof = no assault" is working particularly well.

Also, the idea that because we have a female President at UConn somehow affectgs what some beat cop tells some assault victim at 3 am on a Wednesday is comical at best.

This wasn't a case of s e xual assault. If anything it was simple assault but I think they were both charged with a misdemeanor like breach of peace. That is a huge difference. That this case gets included with infinitely more serious allegations like rape and s e xual assault is in its own way a problem. In many respects this case is completely and entirely separate from that whole issue, and if Lyle McCombs happened to be not a football player it would never have been brought up. Somehow the UConn football program, which frankly has had fewer serious problems than many national programs and for that matter fewer than some other UConn programs we could name, is being targeted. In part I suspect that it is a bit of guilt by association. But this case wasn't about s e x ual assault at all. I'mnot sure how it even relates.

 

[freescooter]

It's a common notion that people who rat other people out to police are probably not safe. Especially when the police themselves admit they'll tell the perpetrator, who also happens to be a) way bigger and stronger than you, and b) apparently above the law.

I'd be afraid too.

I'll grant you a) but how was a guy who GOT ARRESTED apparently above the law? he was taken away in cuffs for gawd sakes. Had to post bail apparently to go home. And he was not even accused of s e xual assault. He apparently had a fight with his girlfriend where they pushed and spit at each other. Stupid? Yep. Childish? Yep. S e xual assault? Not even on the same planet.

 

[CL82]

Here's what I don't get...

"According to the report, UConn police responded to LaFlesche [on-campus apartments] after an alarmed resident called and said that a male and female were involved in a domestic dispute late Thursday night. According to the police report, it was learned that McCombs was yelling and had spit at and pushed his girlfriend while outside of a residential hall.

McCombs was arrested at 12:19 a.m. Friday; Jones, of Stratford, was arrested an hour later and charged with the same thing, second-degree breach of peace. She was released on a $500 non-surety bond, according to the report, which also said Jones was yelling, had spit on and scratched and pushed her boyfriend outside of a residential hall."

So the girlfriend was arrested/charged for the same thing as Lyle, but this witness seems to be making a much larger deal out of what Lyle did without mentioning that the girlfriend was also charged. Is that because the police decided not to charge him with what he really did, or is it because she did not see what the girlfriend also did in the altercation since she admittedly did not see the entire event?

Thank you.

When a third party witness felt McCombs punishment was too lax, her concern was taken seriously and referred to Community Standards. She made a statement but want to do so anonymously. When she was told, properly that her statement was going be part of a public record, she backed off saying that she was concerned about her safety. The university representative said, properly my view, if you are concerned about your safety don't make the statement (because it will be part of the public record.) I'm having trouble finding that to be objectionable.

 

[huskymedic]

This wasn't a case of s e xual assault. If anything it was simple assault but I think they were both charged with a misdemeanor like breach of peace. That is a huge difference. That this case gets included with infinitely more serious allegations like rape and s e xual assault is in its own way a problem. In many respects this case is completely and entirely separate from that whole issue, and if Lyle McCombs happened to be not a football player it would never have been brought up. Somehow the UConn football program, which frankly has had fewer serious problems than many national programs and for that matter fewer than some other UConn programs we could name, is being targeted. In part I suspect that it is a bit of guilt by association. But this case wasn't about s e x ual assault at all. I'm not sure how it even relates.

This is how it relates: "I am one of seven girls who has filed a claim against UConn under Title IX with violations specific to my case including, but not limited to, hostile environment, inadequate sanctions foster hostile environment, and discouragement from reporting." It's a bigger picture view.

 

[freescooter]

Just to be clear, if McCombs was accused or s e xual assault, I'd want him gone. And I absolutely think UConn needs to get its act together and deal with that issue in a consistent way. But this is a goofy example that shows none of that.

 

[CL82]

This is how it relates: "I am one of seven girls who has filed a claim against UConn under Title IX with violations specific to my case including, but not limited to, hostile environment, inadequate sanctions foster hostile environment, and discouragement from reporting." It's a bigger picture view.

Accurate statement. Of course the other allegations include a logo of dog that encourages sexual assault and allegation that UConn administrators encouraged violence against woman by having a trail. I agree that this allegation is every bit as valid as those two.

 

[freescooter]

This is how it relates: "I am one of seven girls who has filed a claim against UConn under Title IX with violations specific to my case including, but not limited to, hostile environment, inadequate sanctions foster hostile environment, and discouragement from reporting." It's a bigger picture view.

But to be a hostile environment doesn't somebody have to do something, you know, hostile? thinking that somebody might do something when they have given no indication that they will nor do they act in any hostile way, isn't exactly the same thing. Fact is if this didn't involve a football player, if it were an incident between two "normal students" it owuld never have been brought up.

 

[huskymedic]

But to be a hostile environment doesn't somebody have to do something, you know, hostile? thinking that somebody might do something when they have given no indication that they will nor do they act in any hostile way, isn't exactly the same thing. Fact is if this didn't involve a football player, if it were an incident between two "normal students" it owuld never have been brought up.

Both lawsuits are portraying this as a "culture" issue. Read this to get the broad angle on the "hostile environment" - http://knowyourix.org/title-ix/title-ix-the-basics/ "Title IX doesn't just cover sexual assault. It protects victims of all forms of gender-based violence, including relationship abuse."

No argument what-so-ever that the "football player" involvement get's it more attention and into a different media stream.

Whole new world out there...

 

[Santini35]

Both lawsuits are portraying this as a "culture" issue. Read this to get the broad angle on the "hostile environment" - http://knowyourix.org/title-ix/title-ix-the-basics/ "Title IX doesn't just cover s e xual assault. It protects victims of all forms of gender-based violence, including relationship abuse."

No argument what-so-ever that the "football player" involvement get's it more attention and into a different media stream.

Whole new world out there...

Odd that that says Title IX is supposed to prevent all sex based discrimination in education, but no one seems to have used it yet to get rid of the whole "if a man doesn't register for the draft he can't get federal scholarships or jobs, while women don't have to" problem now that they have removed the women in combat restrictions

 

[SubbaBub]

What does s e xual assault evidence look like? A lot of the time, it looks exactly the same as consensual s e x. there's no such thing as "proof." So if someone denies s e xual assault, do we automatically believe them over the victim? How do we tell? As a society, the "burden of proof" breaks down severely in this situation, but given that 1 in 4 women on college campuses have experienced some kind of assault (nevermind how many are unreported), I don't think just assuming "no proof = no assault" is working particularly well.

Also, the idea that because we have a female President at UConn somehow affectgs what some beat cop tells some assault victim at 3 am on a Wednesday is comical at best.

You are absolutely correct about the difficulty of the burden of proof. That doesn't mean we ignore it. No proof does not equal no assault any less than an accusation equals one. They are matters that require very intense investigation because they are serious accusations and the evidence is almost always muddled. It's also why on a college campus such accounts are both too common and too often dismissed, through no fault of the administration.

The attack on the woman jogging behind HBH by a delivery driver was taken very seriously. Drunken encounters in a dorm room are more difficult to verify. Time is critical as is the willingness of the accuser to participate in the investigation. Filing a complaint even a day later hinders any case almost to the point of hopelessness.

I would ask if the Town of Mansfield should be held liable for safety and conviction for an accusation in an off-campus apartment? This is the same thing. The University as with most universities, has more public safety features than almost any other facility. Once you are in the privacy of your residence, what else are they supposed to do? Short of allowing a convicted offender back on campus, I don't know what case the plaintiff can bring.

 

[ruskin]

Not that Lyle is an angel but sounds like he ought to get some legal representation soon and bite back at Allred and her ilk. Like 'quit calling my client a rapist' for starters