OT Yankees Giradi Fired | The Boneyard

OT Yankees Giradi Fired

Technically he wasn't fired. His contact was up and they parted ways.

Girard was a good manager, but I got the sense the players didn't love him.

Baseball manager is one of the most over analyzed and overrated (in terms of importance), roles in all of sports.

I trust Cashman to make a solid choice as a replacement.

Anyone who overreacts to this on either extreme is very misguided.
 
Seems this choice was made prior to playoff run. GM's want more control over teams and you don't get that with a manager about about to sign a 3-5 year contract getting paid $5M a year. He's been there 10 years, Yankees will go for a younger (cheaper) voice. Seems not too many were surprised by this.
 
ConnHuskBask said:
Technically he wasn't fired. His contact was up and they parted ways.

Girard was a good manager, but I got the sense the players didn't love him.

Baseball manager is one of the most over analyzed and overrated (in terms of importance), roles in all of sports.

I trust Cashman to make a solid choice as a replacement.

Anyone who overreacts to this on either extreme is very misguided.
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minidarren said:
Just a little surprised by this as the team overachieved this year and should be pretty good for the next few years.
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No one expected this team to play in the ALCS in the beginning of the year.
 
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As a Red Sox fan I'm happy about this. By most accounts the Yankees exceeded expectations this year, happy with some turmoil to bring them back a bit next season. Over long-haul I can see how with a mostly young core it was time for a new voice. Viewing based on what he's paid is nonsensical, at least until we see who they hire.
 
Don't love it, but it is what it is. Agree with @ConnHuskBask in that baseball managers are probably the least important head coaching positions in professional sports. You only notice when you have an exceptionally bad one.

I'm curious to see who they get. Jason Giambis name has been floated around
 
Baseball managers might be the most important managers of all sports ists 162-game season (8 months) keeping the clubhouse in order and having good chemistry and managing your Bullpen and pitching staff are essential to being a good manager and not every manager can do it

That's why catchers and career minor Leaguers are usually the better managers rather than All-Star Superstar players

Girardi got a raw deal
 
methodology said:
Baseball managers might be the most important managers of all sports ists 162-game season (8 months) keeping the clubhouse in order and having good chemistry and managing your Bullpen and pitching staff are essential to being a good manager and not every manager can do it

That's why catchers and career minor Leaguers are usually the better managers rather than All-Star Superstar players

Girardi got a raw deal
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That's just not true at all. The in-game decisions can be made by the average Joe fan in terms of bullpen management and setting a lineup. I think the clubhouse aspect of managing personalities is overstated as well. I believe that falls way more on the leadership of player's on the team.

If you're a likable guy and your team plays hard, that's about the extent of being a manager in MLB.

Joe is a good manager, Joe will get another shot, I don't know if who the Yankees bring in will be as good as Joe. That said, unless you are complete buffoon, the results in terms of games won/loss is immaterial.
 
methodology said:
Baseball managers might be the most important managers of all sports ists 162-game season (8 months) keeping the clubhouse in order and having good chemistry and managing your Bullpen and pitching staff are essential to being a good manager and not every manager can do it

That's why catchers and career minor Leaguers are usually the better managers rather than All-Star Superstar players

Girardi got a raw deal
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Raw deal? He kept his job for 10 years. That doesn't happen in professional sports anymore
 
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AntG168 said:
Raw deal? He kept his job for 10 years. That doesn't happen in professional sports anymore
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I hate the Yankees so that isn't coming from a homer. His team overachieved this year and he had to guide them through getting rid of the overpaid, over the hill players that started to handcuff the team. Cashman started building the farm system again and now when it starts to pay dividends and they surpass expectations he more or less gets canned

Raw deal after he's been a career Yankee and won a WS as a coach
 
aburks41 said:
Cashman is the most important guy in the organization. He'll make the right choice for manager
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This right here. Cashman and his inner circle are the most important people in the organization over anyone that hits or pitches.


Horatio said:
This is the Yankee way. In the end , They eat their winning managers.
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5 playoff appearances in 10 seasons (nobody counts the play-in game). No losing seasons to his credit.

He did well, he is a likable guy. There's something to be said about changing it up and bringing in a fresh face that could possibly better guide this young group to titles.
 
methodology said:
I hate the Yankees so that isn't coming from a homer. His team overachieved this year and he had to guide them through getting rid of the overpaid, over the hill players that started to handcuff the team. Cashman started building the farm system again and now when it starts to pay dividends and they surpass expectations he more or less gets canned

Raw deal after he's been a career Yankee and won a WS as a coach
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It's not a raw deal and was pretty well known his time with the Yankees had run it's course. People thought Showalter got a raw deal and Torre was a bad choice, it turned out pretty good in the end.
 
Cashman is a buffoon. He may have finally learned how to be a GM with the moves he made in 2016 but, before that, he sucked as a GM and lived off the good moves made before he got there. I hope, if he stays, that he remains on this path.

Girardi is a great manager when he isn't handed a team full of egomaniacal primadonnas. He got a team like that this year and it went well. Every down year since the late-90s has been Cashman's fault, not Torre or Girardi. Torre was a good manager too. Showalter was a dead fish.

If Cashman stays due to the turnaround this year, so should have Girardi.
 
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The moves that Cashman made last couple years has set the Yankees up for the next 8-10 years, so he’s done very well. Joe Girardi had little personality but the players seemed to like him. Honestly with that type of roster I could write the names in and win. And the roster will be better next year. This is not about winning this year or challenging the play, and over a 3 year deal they will probably save at least 6 million dollars. Joe would have needed a raise from 4 million per. Just wonder if all the staff goes too?
 
Paesano said:
Cashman is a buffoon.
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Let's see here:

-4 World Series as GM
-6 AL Pennants as GM
-0 Losing Seasons
-Most recently, since given full control, navigated a complete rebuild without tanking and just made the ALCS.
-Remember that trade where the Yankees gave up that top prospect and they went on the regret it? Yeah me either.
-Didi, Hicks, Castro for castoffs.
-Drafted Judge, signed Severino and Sanchez.
-Traded two closers. Yes, closers for Gleyber Torress (consensus #1 prospect in MLB), Clint Frazier and Justus Sheffield.
-Purged the old salary and should be under the luxury tax, with one of the best young cores in MLB.

Counter those facts.
 
ConnHuskBask said:
Let's see here:

-4 World Series as GM
-6 AL Pennants as GM
-0 Losing Seasons
-Most recently, since given full control, navigated a complete rebuild without tanking and just made the ALCS.
-Remember that trade where the Yankees gave up that top prospect and they went on the regret it? Yeah me either.
-Didi, Hicks, Castro for castoffs.
-Drafted Judge, signed Severino and Sanchez.
-Traded two closers. Yes, closers for Gleyber Torress (consensus #1 prospect in MLB), Clint Frazier and Justus Sheffield.
-Purged the old salary and should be under the luxury tax, with one of the best young cores in MLB.

Counter those facts.
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Well besides that, what has he done?
 
ConnHuskBask said:
Let's see here:

-4 World Series as GM
-6 AL Pennants as GM
-0 Losing Seasons
-Most recently, since given full control, navigated a complete rebuild without tanking and just made the ALCS.
-Remember that trade where the Yankees gave up that top prospect and they went on the regret it? Yeah me either.
-Didi, Hicks, Castro for castoffs.
-Drafted Judge, signed Severino and Sanchez.
-Traded two closers. Yes, closers for Gleyber Torress (consensus #1 prospect in MLB), Clint Frazier and Justus Sheffield.
-Purged the old salary and should be under the luxury tax, with one of the best young cores in MLB.

Counter those facts.
Expand ...

Well 3 of his 4 World Series came when he inherited a team with a core of hall of famers/borderline hall of famers not even entering their prime yet, and that had already won a world series and made the playoffs 3 straight years. Nice job adding pieces for the next 3 years? Sure. But if we're going to diminish managers for saying a lot of people could do their job, which i agree with, we can also say it wasn't exactly difficult to find complimentary pieces when you have the core 4 plus Bernie making limited money, and a huge budget.

Then post 2001, our budget got even bigger, and year after year he failed to give us the pitching to win a title. The complete control thing isn't accurate, he had that since 2005, and he stated back then the minor leagues would finally be a priority. That has finally come to fruition after over a decade.

He has done a great job the last 2 years which I believe the other poster said. But we've remained competitive with a pretty old and overpaid roster for the years leading up to that. Now that we have a promising roster for the future Girardi deserves to lead it.
 
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The difference between a good manager and a bad one is very little however the difference between a bad manager and a horrible manager is huge. You just don’t want horrible
 
ConnHuskBask said:
Let's see here:

-4 World Series as GM
-6 AL Pennants as GM
-0 Losing Seasons
-Most recently, since given full control, navigated a complete rebuild without tanking and just made the ALCS.
-Remember that trade where the Yankees gave up that top prospect and they went on the regret it? Yeah me either.
-Didi, Hicks, Castro for castoffs.
-Drafted Judge, signed Severino and Sanchez.
-Traded two closers. Yes, closers for Gleyber Torress (consensus #1 prospect in MLB), Clint Frazier and Justus Sheffield.
-Purged the old salary and should be under the luxury tax, with one of the best young cores in MLB.

Counter those facts.
Expand ...

Gene Michael, Bob Watson and Buck Showalter built the Yankees dynasty of the 90's and Torre guided the way.

Cashman has had a nice last two years though. His deal with the White Sox at the trade deadline this year almost got the Yankees to the WS.
 
kemba said:
Well 3 of his 4 World Series came when he inherited a team with a core of hall of famers/borderline hall of famers not even entering their prime yet, and that had already won a world series and made the playoffs 3 straight years.
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RJScootin said:
Inherited doesn't work on this board, I tried with Ollie in 2014.
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Brian Cashman worked in the Yankees front office for a decade before being named General Manager.
Brian Cashman was assistant farm director from 1990-92.
Brian Cashman was associate GM from 1993-96.


Its amazing how, apparently, none of that ever matters. Nope. He just showed up for the first time ever in 1996 and had nothing to do with building those teams.

Brian Cashman built the dynasty as much as anyone else. Anyone. Including Stick.
 
zls44 said:
Brian Cashman worked in the Yankees front office for a decade before being named General Manager.
Brian Cashman was assistant farm director from 1990-92.
Brian Cashman was associate GM from 1993-96.


Its amazing how, apparently, none of that ever matters. Nope. He just showed up for the first time ever in 1996 and had nothing to do with building those teams.

Brian Cashman built the dynasty as much as anyone else. Anyone. Including Stick.
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For the record I think Cashman is the Man! Manager is overrated in baseball. Madden was awful last year and they won. Get talent .....Cashman has been a beast at that. Save the $5M+ on Girardi.
 
Stinger92860 said:
Well besides that, what has he done?
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Ill add to that you go back to the dynasty days the Knoblauch deal he traded away Guzman who turned out ok, Eric Milton who was a so so starter, Kenny Rogers for Brosius, David Wells Lloyd and Bush for Clemens Ricky Ledee for Justice (no 3 peat without Justice).

He waited it out for CC Sabathia in 09, when everyone was begging for him to trade away his prospects for Johan Santana, was able to keep Hughes and Joba (yeah they didnt turn out what people were expecting but they helped win that ring in 09). You see how Santana turned out vs CC. Trading away Wilson Betemeit for Nick Swisher, then getting a compensatory pick for Swisher which happened to be Aaron Judge. Cashman hasn't been perfect and he did make some signing that were stupid but overall he has an excellent track record and he has hit about 99.99 percent in trades.
 
My biggest beefs with the Yankee front office were the Joba rules and signing Ellsbury to that massive deal after letting Cano walk. Joba pitching so well out of relief when he first came up was ironically detrimental to his career as he got pigeon holed into a reliever and then yanked back and forth. Also, letting Cano was understandable (as much as it sucked to see him leave) but going out and signing Ellsbury was horrible the moment the pen hit the ink.

The Yankees have had a salary advantage over the years, which nobody can argue, but the fact they haven't finished beneath .500 since 1992 (!!!!) And under Cashman they went through a transition and missed the playoffs 5 times in the past decade, but all the teams have been competitive.

I don't think most people realize how hard it is to rebuild without tanking, even with the resources the Yankees have.

So, if it isn't apparent yet, I have complete faith in Cashman and believe that if he thinks the Yanks are better off to move on from Girardi, I'm inclined to defer to his 20 year run of excellence.
 
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