OT: World Cup

[Da_Aisijimo_Gou]

Small nitpick but actually they both advanced with a 1-0 West Germany win. Once they got the goal they just kicked it around

thanks Stevie

 

[stamfordhusky]

fifa changed all game 3s to play simultaneously because of what germany did in the past, playing conservatively to net a tie. by playing at the same time, the theory is that no team can mail it in. unless, of course, the two teams that are playing both advance with a tie.

And in this case, both teams do advance with a tie. Germany will try to win - but without taking any risks that could possibly produce a loss.

 

[djct1999]

And in this case, both teams do advance with a tie. Germany will try to win - but without taking any risks that could possibly produce a loss.

Yes, Germany wins the group with a tie!

 

[intlzncster]

Yes it sucked. Tim Howard falling down didn't help either. That was very poor goalie play as well.

I agree that Timmy played that one poorly and am sure he'd want to have it back. That said, you can't hang a goalie out to dry more than that; tough spot to be in. Plus, he absolutely saved our bacon later on.

 

[HuskyHawk]

I agree that Timmy played that one poorly and am sure he'd want to have it back. That said, you can't hang a goalie out to dry more than that; tough spot to be in. Plus, he absolutely saved our bacon later on.

Not complaining about his overall performance...just saying that after the horrible header failed to clear, he was in the right position to make a save, but fell down (may have slipped). Kudos to him for his positioning on that actually.

It just points to a lucky point for Portugal. I though the U.S. had the run of play throughout the match, and Portugal was very lucky Bradley didn't score on his mostly open net. It could have easily been a 3-0 U.S. win.

 

[intlzncster]

Couldn't disagree more. If Germany and the US tie, Germany wins the group. The question to me is how aggressive does the US come out and play. Usually in a decisive game 3 where a tie advances both teams, you will net a nil-nil result. Germany will almost certainly sit back, play conservatively, and by the 70th minute, have its 3 key players on the bench resting. The wild card for once is us.

As I said above, can Germany take the chance of playing for the tie? This group HAS to be won. 2nd place gets Belgium, one of the strongest sides in the tournament.

If Germany plays for the tie, and the US manages to poke one home late, that is a disaster scenario. Belgium might even be a better team than Germany (ok I like them). I think Germany will play to win to be assured of avoiding Belgium.

 

[intlzncster]

Not complaining about his overall performance...just saying that after the horrible header failed to clear, he was in the right position to make a save, but fell down (may have slipped). Kudos to him for his positioning on that actually.

It just points to a lucky point for Portugal. I though the U.S. had the run of play throughout the match, and Portugal was very lucky Bradley didn't score on his mostly open net. It could have easily been a 3-0 U.S. win.

Sorry, I meant "played that particular play poorly". Positioning was good, but that doesn't mean much when you go down early. I don't think he slipped, but that's just me going on memory (drunk and angry at the time).

Timmy actually played well overall.

 

[intlzncster]

Talking to a German colleague right now...he skipped the work topic and went straight to the World Cup. He says they are worried, but that the Ghana game was a wake up call for the German team. So they won't be complacent or take us lightly.

I told him Klose worries me, as he is so good at converting crosses, and we have been so terrible defending them.

As I said in another post. Klose is my favorite all time World Cup player. I gave a primal scream at the Tele the other day when he scored: "KLOOOOOOOOSEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" All Klose does is score goals.

So yeah, he worries me. Him and Mueller and Ozil.

 

[intlzncster]

So play hard now while running the risk of being eliminated or play conservative now with the chance of playing four more games and winning it all? Klose will have plenty of time to net that goal. Think about it.

The Chance of being eliminated is so small though. Ghana or Portugal would need to swing the goal differential by 5/6 (along with a few other details).

 

[CallMeBruce]

As I said above, can Germany take the chance of playing for the tie? This group HAS to be won. 2nd place gets Belgium, one of the strongest sides in the tournament.

If Germany plays for the tie, and the US manages to poke one home late, that is a disaster scenario. Belgium might even be a better team than Germany (ok I like them). I think Germany will play to win to be assured of avoiding Belgium.

I was hot for the Belgians coming into the tournament, but they have NOT impressed me, which is par for the course for most of these Euro sides. Very few impressive wins for Euro teams over non-Euro teams in this tournament.

 

[intlzncster]

I was hot for the Belgians coming into the tournament, but they have NOT impressed me, which is par for the course for most of these Euro sides. Very few impressive wins for Euro teams over non-Euro teams in this tournament.

Very true, but we are talking about a European team vs another European team here. So that metric won't matter in this particular knockout game.

I mean, give me Algeria any day of the week. But yes, you want to avoid South American sides at this point.

 

[CallMeBruce]

Very true, but we are talking about a European team vs another European team here. So that metric won't matter in this particular knockout game.

I mean, give me Algeria any day of the week. But yes, you want to avoid South American sides at this point.

I guess I'm speaking from the American perspective. Yes, I'd obviously much rather have Algeria, but at this point, I think that Belgium is beatable. And for the US, it's really just about making the knockout stage in the first place. I consider 2010 a successful tournament, even if they should have beaten Ghana. I'll consider this WC successful if I get to watch a knockout game featuring the US, provided it's not a blowout.

I've historically felt the same way about UConn and the NCAAs, in that I was happy if they made the second weekend, but now I think I'm getting to the point where anything short of a Final Four is a little disappointing.

 

[intlzncster]

I guess I'm speaking from the American perspective. Yes, I'd obviously much rather have Algeria, but at this point, I think that Belgium is beatable. And for the US, it's really just about making the knockout stage in the first place. I consider 2010 a successful tournament, even if they should have beaten Ghana. I'll consider this WC successful if I get to watch a knockout game featuring the US, provided it's not a blowout.

Oh absolutely. I was merely talking about the game from the perspective of the Germans wanting to win it. It would take an enormously unlikely series of events for them not to go through. Lose and have the goal differential swing by 5/6 in the two games (yes, with a few more details in there too).

For the US, it is just about going through. That is all. We must tie or win. The Germans are a team that can afford to look/plan ahead a bit. The US are decidedly not.

As for a successful US tournament, if they make the knockout stage from this group, that is an astronomical performance from a US perspective. I'd consider that a big step up for US Soccer. This is a group that they would not have a prayer of making it out in the past. To have 4 points after 2 games, I'm very happy with that positioning. I just wish they weren't facing the Germans.

 

[intlzncster]

Again, for those who like barstool, this is funny:

Joel Embiid Tweets That Ronaldo Is His Boy…It Doesn’t Go Over Well

Some of the responses are hilarious; I particularly like, "yeah cool foot". Here's a few:

 

[Pudge]

Not to pick on you in particular, as I think you are in the majority, but...
The idea that Germany is so much better than the USA, as the above comments seem to suggest, is plain wrong. You are absolutely right, the USA has a quality team. The USA plays very good soccer ("in my country they call it 'futbal'"). They create chances and play with spirit and skill. Their defense is suspect at times, but otherwise, they are very good. There is a misconception, I think, that the USA is not on the same level as the other "name" teams. I do not buy it. It makes no difference that "there is no USA player good enough to make the German team". It is meaningless. Furthermore, things change. I have seen Costa Rica, Algeria, Iran, Australia, the USA and my eyes tell me a different story. There is a new age of soccer ahead of us.

As for today's game, Cameron screwed up in the beginning and Bradley in the end. I was upset the referee gave 5 minutes of stoppage. It was too much IMO.

I think this is absolutely the story of this World Cup.

Spain. England. Russia. These teams we have seen & heard talked about played really blah. Then, Costa Rica, Mexico, Algeria & Iran played really spirited fun styles ... and well. I think the USA has played FAR better than previous trips; we need to have a transformative mindbend to think that we aren't what we used to be. What we become is the question. How good?

I, frankly, am tired of listening to my English friends boasting. They sucked. I think the tournament has opened eyes on lots of trends changing in this sport worldwide.

 

[SubbaBub]

Not complaining about his overall performance...just saying that after the horrible header failed to clear, he was in the right position to make a save, but fell down (may have slipped). Kudos to him for his positioning on that actually.

It just points to a lucky point for Portugal. I though the U.S. had the run of play throughout the match, and Portugal was very lucky Bradley didn't score on his mostly open net. It could have easily been a 3-0 U.S. win.

The Portuguese player faked a shot then went high. Plus, Tim was scrambling nearly the full goal width to get across. It looked worse than it was. Really had no chance at that range. Made two other saves that people will forget when they say the US was the better team. Portugal had to think they should have had at least 3 before the last header.

Our back line is porous, but they recover most of the time. They are not good by any stretch.

 

[Gurleyman]

The Portuguese player faked a shot then went high. Plus, Tim was scrambling nearly the full goal width to get across. It looked worse than it was. Really had no chance at that range. Made two other saves that people will forget when they say the US was the better team. Portugal had to think they should have had at least 3 before the last header. Our back line is porous, but they recover most of the time. They are not good by any stretch.

His two best saves were actually set up by his own miscues. He failed to redirect the long shot wide of the post (it was a rocket that was probably knuckling, so it was a tricky one to handle, but he was right there in position to tip it wide and just missed it - or barely grazed it) and then he whiffed trying to punch away a clearance and had to make a save instead. He recovered both times, so no harm done and he couldn't be faulted on either goal. At first In live action, I thought he should have come off his line on the last goal, but once I saw the replay I knew I was wrong. The cross was driven and bending away from him - he had to trust his D to handle it and stay on his line. Maybe if he sizes up the guy's angle on his approach, he could have anticipated the neat post header and guessed that way, but that's asking him to make a miracle save.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

As I said above, can Germany take the chance of playing for the tie? This group HAS to be won. 2nd place gets Belgium, one of the strongest sides in the tournament.

If Germany plays for the tie, and the US manages to poke one home late, that is a disaster scenario. Belgium might even be a better team than Germany (ok I like them). I think Germany will play to win to be assured of avoiding Belgium.

Belgium has underperformed so far. Not as dangerous as I thought, so far. Russia has been mediocre. Algeria is physical; but too many defensive lapses.

Another question is who do you want to play after the round of 16. The likely path looks to be for 1G France and then Brazil versus Argentina and then the Netherlands. Does Germany have a preference?

 

[DarthGrumpy]

His two best saves were actually set up by his own miscues. He failed to redirect the long shot wide of the post (it was a rocket that was probably knuckling, so it was a tricky one to handle, but he was right there in position to tip it wide and just missed it - or barely grazed it) and then he whiffed trying to punch away a clearance and had to make a save instead. He recovered both times, so no harm done and he couldn't be faulted on either goal. At first In live action, I thought he should have come off his line on the last goal, but once I saw the replay I knew I was wrong. The cross was driven and bending away from him - he had to trust his D to handle it and stay on his line. Maybe if he sizes up the guy's angle on his approach, he could have anticipated the neat post header and guessed that way, but that's asking him to make a miracle save.

Agree, on the tying goal, he was left open by the center backs failing to mark and you can tell his guessed wrong with which direction the header was going. It was a 50/50 guess, can’t blame Howard for that.

 

[intlzncster]

Belgium has underperformed so far. Not as dangerous as I thought, so far. Russia has been mediocre. Algeria is physical; but too many defensive lapses.

Another question is who do you want to play after the round of 16. The likely path looks to be for 1G France and then Brazil versus Argentina and then the Netherlands. Does Germany have a preference?

I have no idea, but I'd guess avoid Brazil in the later stages at all costs? Host country, refs, and all that.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

I was hot for the Belgians coming into the tournament, but they have NOT impressed me, which is par for the course for most of these Euro sides. Very few impressive wins for Euro teams over non-Euro teams in this tournament.

Netherlands and France looked surprisingly good. Germany looked deadly in game one and did their usual in game 2. Overall, I agree with the refs of the Euro teams looking week or off. It will be interesting to see how they play as the games progress in the heat. Brazil has not looked impressive either though. I believe with them it is the pressure.

 

[intlzncster]

His two best saves were actually set up by his own miscues. He failed to redirect the long shot wide of the post (it was a rocket that was probably knuckling, so it was a tricky one to handle, but he was right there in position to tip it wide and just missed it - or barely grazed it) and then he whiffed trying to punch away a clearance and had to make a save instead. He recovered both times, so no harm done and he couldn't be faulted on either goal. At first In live action, I thought he should have come off his line on the last goal, but once I saw the replay I knew I was wrong. The cross was driven and bending away from him - he had to trust his D to handle it and stay on his line. Maybe if he sizes up the guy's angle on his approach, he could have anticipated the neat post header and guessed that way, but that's asking him to make a miracle save.

That shot off the post was a tough one. He had the angle, but that thing was moving. And as you say, had a bit of knuckle to it. I can't fault Tim for missing it. Great recovery too. That's the mark of a great goalie; the first shot often makes it through (rebound/post/or whatever), but can they make the second save? Howard's proven he can.

Definitely no chance for him on that last goal; it was moving and bending too quickly. He has to think the defenders flanking Alvera are going to make the play as well.

 

[intlzncster]

Netherlands and France looked surprisingly good. Germany looked deadly in game one and did their usual in game 2. Overall, I agree with the refs of the Euro teams looking week or off. It will be interesting to see how they play as the games progress in the heat. Brazil has not looked impressive either though. I believe with them it is the pressure.

If history is any indication, Brazil typically gets stronger as the tournament progresses. Also, do you really want to contend with refs of a Brazil game in the knockout stages? I'd prefer to avoid that scenario if I'm the opposing team.

 

[intlzncster]

I think this is absolutely the story of this World Cup.

Spain. England. Russia. These teams we have seen & heard talked about played really blah. Then, Costa Rica, Mexico, Algeria & Iran played really spirited fun styles ... and well. I think the USA has played FAR better than previous trips; we need to have a transformative mindbend to think that we aren't what we used to be. What we become is the question. How good?

I, frankly, am tired of listening to my English friends boasting. They sucked. I think the tournament has opened eyes on lots of trends changing in this sport worldwide.

What in god's name are your English friends boasting about? England is the most overrated soccer 'power' in the world. Frankly, they suck in the World Cup.

 

[intlzncster]

The Portuguese player faked a shot then went high. Plus, Tim was scrambling nearly the full goal width to get across. It looked worse than it was. Really had no chance at that range. Made two other saves that people will forget when they say the US was the better team. Portugal had to think they should have had at least 3 before the last header.

Our back line is porous, but they recover most of the time. They are not good by any stretch.

That is not a recipe for success, especially against a team with clinical finishers (of which, Germany is definitely one).

 

[upstater]

I think Spain's great generation peetering out and England looking untalented (which they are) has people thinking too much about Europe.

Germany and Holland have performed well, and I think Belgium is actually coming on. France looks dangerous. Though Italy is a huge question mark.

When you look at the backdrop, it should not surprise that England has underwhelmned. Spain had to go through this sooner or later. It happened to France several years ago--same thing.

As for the USA, I love the way they are playing, though I'd personally put Claudio Reyna's South Korean edition as the top US squad I've ever seen. This one may come very close if the core stays together another 4 years.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Very true, but we are talking about a European team vs another European team here. So that metric won't matter in this particular knockout game.

I mean, give me Algeria any day of the week. But yes, you want to avoid South American sides at this point.

It is no foregone conclusion that it will be Algeria as the #2 in Group H. Russia is not out of this yet.

 

[intlzncster]

It is no foregone conclusion that it will be Algeria as the #2 in Group H. Russia is not out of this yet.

You are correct. I was just using them to make a point of emphasis. The idea was that you want to face any of those sides over Belgium, despite their showing so far.

 

[intlzncster]

Picking England in the World Cup is like picking Syracuse in the NCAA Tournament. A fool's errand at best.

I might have just made the best analogy ever.

 

[Gurleyman]

It is no foregone conclusion that it will be Algeria as the #2 in Group H. Russia is not out of this yet.

Not foregone that Belgium is the 1 either since thy would lose to Algeria on goal differential, but Korea would have to pull a shocker that doesn't look likely. Belgium has been a bit disappointing, but the pressure to advance is off now so they could raise their game a notch playing free and easy.