OT: World Cup

[housekeys]

Yeah, I'm probably a little irrational right now. A bit drunk, and frankly, gutted. But I'll be surprised if the US goes through now. Mainly, it's due to the fact that I believe Portugal is the worst team in this group (as they are currently constituted and playing).

Hence, Ghana will beat Portugal; the unknown is the margin of victory. I wouldn't be surprised to see Ghana crush Portugal.

I also think that Germany will win the game against the US; the unknown is the margin of victory.

It will be tough to make it through with those two results.

I do not think Germany will beat the USA. On the contrary, if Germany is willing to risk beating the USA, they will lose.

 

[Strummer]

We lost . . .

No we didn't, but I feel your pain.

 

[upstater]

You wrote: "I can't put either goal on the defenders other than to say Cameron had a bad clearance. Ronaldo's ball came from way out. And it's hard to say where it was going to go."

So I was saying that you CAN put the first goal on the defender. My point was that it wasn't just "a bad clearance". That goal was 100% on Cameron (a defender). Whether you meant it or not, your post reads as though, "ah, it was just a bad touch...it happens." That is a ball that has to be cleared 100% of the time. Your statement would have been closer to the truth if you said it was one of the worst defensive plays in the history of American soccer (note: I'm not saying that it was).

On the second point. Ronaldo's cross came from way out, yes. But the defenders, who were flanking Varela, had just as much opportunity to see the cross as Varela did. It should have been cleared.

I can't see where in the world we disagree on Cameron. The first post I responded to criticized the defenders on that goal. I didn't think anyone was at fault other than Cameron. You seem to disagree?

On the Ronaldo cross, there are times when things are so perfectly done that you tip your hat. You can't expect a defender to be perfectly positioned n those situations.

 

[intlzncster]

Not to pick on you in particular, as I think you are in the majority, but...
The idea that Germany is so much better than the USA, as the above comments seem to suggest, is plain wrong. You are absolutely right, the USA has a quality team. The USA plays very good soccer ("in my country they call it 'futbal'"). They create chances and play with spirit and skill. Their defense is suspect at times, but otherwise, they are very good. There is a misconception, I think, that the USA is not on the same level as the other "name" teams. I do not buy it. It makes no difference that "there is no USA player good enough to make the German team". It is meaningless. Furthermore, things change. I have seen Costa Rica, Algeria, Iran, Australia, the USA and my eyes tell me a different story. There is a new age of soccer ahead of us.
As for today's game, Cameron screwed up in the beginning and Bradley in the end. I was upset the referee gave 5 minutes of stoppage. It was too much IMO.

This is the problem though. The US back line is not strong. Germany's attack is so deadly, far superior to Portugals (even with one of the top 2 players in the world); they run Mueller, Ozil, Khedira and crew at you and it's tough to stop. Khedira hasn't even played his best yet. Then if they want, they can bring Podalski, Schweinsteiger, and the great Miroslav Klose in to continue pummeling you. They are fit and athletic, just like the US.

I don't particularly fear their defense though. If we can get two goals, we should stand a good chance to tie.

I will be elated to be wrong. I'm going to go sulk now.

 

[intlzncster]

I can't see where in the world we disagree on Cameron. The first post I responded to criticized the defenders on that goal. I didn't think anyone was at fault other than Cameron. You seem to disagree?

On the Ronaldo cross, there are times when things are so perfectly done that you tip your hat. You can't expect a defender to be perfectly positioned n those situations.

I'm not fired up at you or anything. I guess I would have phrased it differently than "I can't put either goal on the defenders other than to say Cameron had a bad clearance".

 

[housekeys]

Here's a short clip of the moment of Bradley's turnover. Man, he could have kicked that ball almost anywhere and it would've resulted in a win for the US. Hurts, man.

https://vine.co/v/MTlw9hwUAva

You know, that was a foul. Notice that Bradley is first to the ball and posses it (even though he does not touch it), the Portuguese player makes no contact with the ball, but pushes Bradley off, allowing him to gain possession. If they reached the ball at the same time, or there was contact with the ball, the same time, I would see it different.

Of course, it should never come to that. That is the pisser.

 

[Gurleyman]

I've personally never been a huge proponent of the chase and harry technique. Let them kick it around in the back and waste time. Clog the middle and create a clusterf_ck whenever they try to move it forward. Heck, we would have been better served by simply clearing full field. I'm aware of the second point, and you are not wrong. But the back line cost us the game (along with a garbage play from Bradley). Which is why I would have liked to see Yedlin go back, as he was warmed up.

You still want to put the trailing team under a little bit of token pressure just to kill some time. And if you clear the ball out of your box and your one guy up top can be the first one to it, he may be able to clear it all the way downfield or draw a foul and then you can kill 30 more seconds to a minute and take a breather. You're basically having one guy do the work of 2 or 3 up top and giving players some sort of target when they clear it. Abandoning all the space up to the top of your defensive third and not even fighting for clearances just means balls continually pinged into the box, and the more chances for a crazy bounce or hand ball or something going wrong.

If we replaced a center back late in the game for something other than an injury, it would be the first time I've ever seen it. Although we could have blamed it on conditions and aomeone being too fatigued to continue. The closest I've seen is a team putting a mid in for a center back and having a defensive mid who is already warn and into the flow of the game, slide back to center back. Not sure if Jones or Beckerman could do that.

 

[upstater]

You know, that was a foul. Notice that Bradley is first to the ball and posses it (even though he does not touch it), the Portuguese player makes no contact with the ball, but pushes Bradley off, allowing him to gain possession. If they reached the ball at the same time, or there was contact with the ball, the same time, I would see it different.

Of course, it should never come to that. That is the pisser.

It was a foul but why isn't he blasting the ball away before it even gets to that?

 

[upstater]

You still want to put the trailing team under a little bit of token pressure just to kill some time. And if you clear the ball out of your box and your one guy up top can be the first one to it, he may be able to clear it all the way downfield or draw a foul and then you can kill 30 more seconds to a minute and take a breather. You're basically having one guy do the work of 2 or 3 up top and giving players some sort of target when they clear it. Abandoning all the space up to the top of your defensive third and not even fighting for clearances just means balls continually pinged into the box, and the more chances for a crazy bounce or hand ball or something going wrong.

If we replaced a center back late in the game for something other than an injury, it would be the first time I've ever seen it. Although we could have blamed it on conditions and aomeone being too fatigued to continue. The closest I've seen is a team putting a mid in for a center back and having a defensive mid who is already warn and into the flow of the game, slide back to center back. Not sure if Jones or Beckerman could do that.

The thing is, Portugal had no one strong in the box who could go over the top. Ronaldo is a little weak when it comes to that. When you pack it in like say a Greece would do in that situation, the way to make a team pay for doing that is to keep going for a header. But who on Portugal can threaten like that?

 

[housekeys]

It was a foul but why isn't he blasting the ball away before it even gets to that?

Exactly, that is what I meant by it should not come to that (hoping to get a call from the ref). He absolutely should have blasted it out. In retrospect, I am sure he would agree.

 

[intlzncster]

If we replaced a center back late in the game for something other than an injury, it would be the first time I've ever seen it. Although we could have blamed it on conditions and aomeone being too fatigued to continue. The closest I've seen is a team putting a mid in for a center back and having a defensive mid who is already warn and into the flow of the game, slide back to center back. Not sure if Jones or Beckerman could do that.

Heck, he seems to be able to do everything else, so why not?

 

[intlzncster]

No we didn't, but I feel your pain.

Yeah I know that's poor phraseology....I'm just pissed off.

 

[intlzncster]

I think I'm starting to calm down. Not sure though.

 

[stamfordhusky]

No, you want to win the group. Better matchup the next round. Germany will be playing to win.

Germany automatically wins the group with a draw. They will likely play conservatively.

 

[intlzncster]

Germany automatically wins the group with a draw. They will likely play conservatively.

Then they are playing to lose. Good for the US.

 

[Gurleyman]

The thing is, Portugal had no one strong in the box who could go over the top. Ronaldo is a little weak when it comes to that. When you pack it in like say a Greece would do in that situation, the way to make a team pay for doing that is to keep going for a header. But who on Portugal can threaten like that?

The more balls get pinged into the box easily, the more chances something weird can happen. It's not always the first touch, but the second that causes problems. The US can win a header in a crowd, but the ball can deflect off another head or shoulder, or there can be a foul low (bump, jersey tug, etc.) that the referees miss that causes a US player to mistime his jump, so it skims off his head. Or a US defender can go for a header too aggressively and not see a Portuguese player slide in underneath him and get called for a foul in the box (that happened to Onyewu against Ghana the first time). Or we could shank a clearance.

I'm not saying come out of a shell or anything - just that the standard thing to do is to keep one guy up as a target to try to chase things down and not allow the other team to just gather clearances, dribble right up and serve the ball right back in with nobody in front of them. The advantage gained by having a tenth guy in or around the box instead of nine is minimal (diminishing returns) compared to the time that one guy can kill by running around up top (although everyone typically comes back on a free kick or corner). If that one guy can win a clearance and draw a foul or make a play (Wondo dribbling into the corner for example), it can kill a minute and relieve pressure for a while. You'll see that lone forward sub from the leading team in the final 10 minutes all the time in group stages or in Premier League (no overtime) - Italy pulled Balitelli with a one-goal lead on England, for example. The fresh legs are more valuable than a better finisher who is tired.

We were doing it right until the very, very end - which is a big caveat, I know. But we weren't hanging on for dear life. We got the ball 90 yards from our goal and milked the clock. We only had to deal with one dangerous situation (given that five guys were offsides on their other one) instead of a constant barrage. We just didn't deal with it.

 

[Mots010]

Where the hell did the 5 minutes of stoppage time come from, anyways? That seemed a bit excessive. We just need to go out and get a result against Germany. If Ghana can do it, so can we.

 

[intlzncster]

Best tweet I've seen about it yet:

Men in Blazers ✔ @MenInBlazers
Follow
This may be as close as you will ever come to feeling English America

8:02 PM - 22 Jun 2014

 

[Gurleyman]

Where the hell did the 5 minutes of stoppage time come from, anyways? That seemed a bit excessive. We just need to go out and get a result against Germany. If Ghana can do it, so can we.

We had a couple guys down go down late - Besler and Beasley, who had to come off and go back on. Dempsey for a few moments too up near the corner flag. And you can typically figure a minute of stoppage per goal (and we had two). I figured it would be at least five - was fearing 6.

 

[housekeys]

This is the problem though. The US back line is not strong. Germany's attack is so deadly, far superior to Portugals (even with one of the top 2 players in the world); they run Mueller, Ozil, Khedira and crew at you and it's tough to stop. Khedira hasn't even played his best yet. Then if they want, they can bring Podalski, Schweinsteiger, and the great Miroslav Klose in to continue pummeling you. They are fit and athletic, just like the US.

I don't particularly fear their defense though. If we can get two goals, we should stand a good chance to tie.

I will be elated to be wrong. I'm going to go sulk now.

I agree with you here. The thing that is decisively different between the USA and Germany is that Germany has ample "finishers". I mean it is one thing to create scoring chances, which both teams do, but another to finish them by scoring the goals. Germany is superior in this most critical skill.

 

[UConnDan97]

Germany automatically wins the group with a draw. They will likely play conservatively.

Germany will likely NOT play conservatively. Let's put aside for a moment the fact that they are Germany and only think one way when playing soccer. Put yourself in their shoes: you have a large goal differential on both Ghana and Portugal, to the point that even if you were to be aggressive and let a goal through from the USA, you are still through to the next round. However, you would want to secure the knockout round date with Algeria and NOT Belgium.

My guess is that they are going to go for it, and we are going to play conservatively for at least the first 30 minutes to see if we can counter. The outcome of that first 30 minutes, along with whatever is happening in the Ghana-Portugal game at that point, will dictate the rest of the USA philosophy for the final 60 minutes...

 

[intlzncster]

Germany will likely NOT play conservatively. Let's put aside for a moment the fact that they are Germany and only think one way when playing soccer. Put yourself in their shoes: you have a large goal differential on both Ghana and Portugal, to the point that even if you were to be aggressive and let a goal through from the USA, you are still through to the next round. However, you would want to secure the knockout round date with Algeria and NOT Belgium.

My guess is that they are going to go for it, and we are going to play conservatively for at least the first 30 minutes to see if we can counter. The outcome of that first 30 minutes, along with whatever is happening in the Ghana-Portugal game at that point, will dictate the rest of the USA philosophy for the final 60 minutes...

Exactly. I can't understand people's mentality with this one. Germany will play to win. I'm not sure yet if the US plays conservatively. Does JK want them to get on their back foot and let Germany dictate pace? It's tough to stop die mannschaft when it gets rolling. Not just that, this is Jurgen against his former team. I think the US plays similar to the way they did against Portugal, making the appropriate adjustments for personnel and opposing tactics.

 

[intlzncster]

One final criticism of Bradley, that hardly anyone has mentioned, but how in the hell do you not slot that into a keeperless goal in the 55th minute or so? Should have been poked home.

Carlisle's grades match up well with my assessment:

D Geoff Cameron, 4 - Over the entire match, Cameron was solid for the most part, but the nightmarish first eight minutes and his failure to mark Varela on the goal can't be ignored. He simply had to do better in both situations.

M Michael Bradley, 5 - Looked back to his old self early, and just needed to find the range on his shots more. Should have done better on opportunity set up by Johnson, and seemed to fade a bit late. Made a poor pass that led to Ronaldo gaining possession and setting up the equalizer.​

Ok. Got that out of my system. No more ripping the USMNT for me. On to the next one.

 

[UConnDan97]

Exactly. I can't understand people's mentality with this one. Germany will play to win. I'm not sure yet if the US plays conservatively. Does JK want them to get on their back foot and let Germany dictate pace? It's tough to stop die mannschaft when it gets rolling. Not just that, this is Jurgen against his former team. I think the US plays similar to the way they did against Portugal, making the appropriate adjustments for personnel and opposing tactics.

Get used to Dempsey having to do a lot of stuff up top on his own. That's really the only way that we can play from here on out. Although I have to say, the amount of time we had on the ball during this game against Portugal shocked me. Still...Germany is not Portugal...

 

[intlzncster]

Get used to Dempsey having to do a lot of stuff up top on his own. That's really the only way that we can play from here on out.

At this stage, I'm riding the Jermaine Jones bandwagon until the end!

Although I have to say, the amount of time we had on the ball during this game against Portugal shocked me. Still...Germany is not Portugal...

Ya, Germany's counter kicks you in the teeth with consistency. Portugal didn't really generate many great chances. Germany does, and when they do, they finish (as housekeys pointed out). For example, I fear Mueller to a far, far greater extent than I do Ronaldo, player 'rankings' aside.