OT: Why do people consider South Carolina a tourney team?

[tzznandrew]

South Carolina is also 8-4 vs. the RPI Top 100. We are 6-10 vs the RPI Top 100.

I agree playing a tougher schedule is very important, but you have to win your games...I think their losses vs. Missouri, Tennessee, and Mississippi State should keep them out.

They are 14-3 vs. sub 100 teams. 6-1 vs. sub-200 teams.

I don't think they are in right now. They need to win @arkansas and probably win an SEC tourney game.

 

[CTBasketball]

They are 14-3 vs. sub 100 teams. 6-1 vs. sub-200 teams.

I don't think they are in right now. They need to win @arkansas and probably win an SEC tourney game.

I agree. LSU on the other hand, is still being discussed as a Last 4 Out team. How?! They have an RPI of 86 and a SOS of 154 with losses to 6 teams over RPI of 100. Lunardi has them 2 spots behind Tulsa (3.4.16)! Even if they beat Kentucky, they still don't get in, in my opinion. Ben Simmons factor should not give them a seed. That team is so bad, I don't care if Michael Jordan was on it.

 

[tzznandrew]

I agree. LSU on the other hand, is still being discussed as a Last 4 Out team. How?! They have an RPI of 86 and a SOS of 154 with losses to 6 teams over RPI of 100. Lunardi has them 2 spots behind Tulsa (3.4.16)! Even if they beat Kentucky, they still don't get in, in my opinion. Ben Simmons factor should not give them a seed. That team is so bad, I don't care if Michael Jordan was on it.

Agreed. 5 of their losses are missing key players, but I just don't see them as an NCAA factor. You can't lose to that many non-tournament teams--two in the last 2+ weeks--and make the tournament.

We'll see, though.

 

[tcf15]

I agree. LSU on the other hand, is still being discussed as a Last 4 Out team. How?! They have an RPI of 86 and a SOS of 154 with losses to 6 teams over RPI of 100. Lunardi has them 2 spots behind Tulsa (3.4.16)! Even if they beat Kentucky, they still don't get in, in my opinion. Ben Simmons factor should not give them a seed. That team is so bad, I don't care if Michael Jordan was on it.

Pretty sure ESPN is the only one putting LSU anywhere close to the bubble. And, honestly, wouldn't be surprised if ESPN is just doing that to keep Ben Simmons discussion alive on their network. They've been pushing Simmons and LSU all season long. Keeping LSU in bubble conversation = more opportunity to highlight Simmons.

 

[Jerry1714]

Yet South Carolina is throughly in the field. But Boneyard clowns like you have them out.

ha man today was not your day.

 

[Jerry1714]

They are 14-3 vs. sub 100 teams. 6-1 vs. sub-200 teams.

I don't think they are in right now. They need to win @arkansas and probably win an SEC tourney game.

They are in a very similar position as UConn, in now probably, but a solid chance of playing their way out. UConn and SC are separated by 2 teams on Lunardi's S curve, which is similar to most other "bracketologists" I have seen.

If you watch them play though, Kenpom and Sargain are right, they stink.

 

[Jerry1714]

Pretty sure ESPN is the only one putting LSU anywhere close to the bubble. And, honestly, wouldn't be surprised if ESPN is just doing that to keep Ben Simmons discussion alive on their network. They've been pushing Simmons and LSU all season long. Keeping LSU in bubble conversation = more opportunity to highlight Simmons.

I think after today we can, I hope, take this LSU team out of the at large debate

 

[gtcam]

Link the article where they would have more wins. You said they would have 8-9 losses in the AAC. Back it up! Dope. Just stop its pathetic on your part

wow - a little insecurity on your part?
The guy asked you to share something you quoted as fact
If you can't then most people will think you just throw things against the wall - with hopes that something will stick

 

[mauconnfan]

Probably for the same reason Lunardi thinks we are still in

 

[champs99and04]

St. Joe's has a very inflated RPI, but after a gruesome home loss to Duquesne today you have to figure they are in danger. Two top 50 wins (both at home, one against Princeton) and 5 top 100 wins.

 

[huskiesnyc]

My boys at South Carolina are now 24-7 and 11-7 in the SEC 3rd place. I'm told they would have 8-9 losses in the American Athletic Conference which would put them in 7th or 8th place in this pathetic league. Ummmm no

 

[tzznandrew]

My boys at South Carolina are now 24-7 and 11-7 in the SEC 3rd place. I'm told they would have 8-9 losses in the American Athletic Conference which would put them in 7th or 8th place in this pathetic league. Ummmm no

You mean you're impressed by them beating Arkansas today?

You're impressed about their best OOC win being Hofstra?

You think they'd have fewer losses in the AAC despite having 7 in the SEC despite not playing Kentucky, A&M, or Vandy more than once? Despite being swept by Georgia (a team worse than all six top AAC schools)? Despite losing to two sub-.500 teams?

Sorry, that team is a fraud, and the advanced stats show it. They'd have as many--or more--losses in the AAC if they had UConn's schedule. Or, put another way, in UConn were in the SEC and played South Carolina's garbage schedule they'd have a better record than USCe. I stand by that. Them beating Arkansas changes that somehow? No.

 

[huskiesnyc]

You mean you're impressed by them beating Arkansas today?

You're impressed about their best OOC win being Hofstra?

You think they'd have fewer losses in the AAC despite having 7 in the SEC despite not playing Kentucky, A&M, or Vandy more than once? Despite being swept by Georgia (a team worse than all six top AAC schools)? Despite losing to two sub-.500 teams?

Sorry, that team is a fraud, and the advanced stats show it. They'd have as many--or more--losses in the AAC if they had UConn's schedule. Or, put another way, in UConn were in the SEC and played South Carolina's garbage schedule they'd have a better record than USCe. I stand by that. Them beating Arkansas changes that somehow? No.

Their best OOC win is Hofstra? Pretty sure they beat Tulsa which is our second best conference win. And yes they won on the road at Texas AM the SEC Champions.

 

[tzznandrew]

One more thing here:

Conference RPI has SEC 6 and AAC 8.

SEC: 0.5538
AAC: 0.5371

The conferences aren't as different as their names suggest.

Sagarin--a better metric--has the SEC 6 and the AAC 7.

Central Mean: SEC - 80.07, AAC - 79.87
Simple Average: SEC - 80.78, AAC - 80.38
Win 50%: SEC - 80.25, AAC - 80.00

And South Carolina played a garbage in conference schedule.

 

[tzznandrew]

Their best OOC win is Hofstra? Pretty sure they beat Tulsa which is our second best conference win. And yes they won on the road at Texas AM the SEC Champions.

Indeed, they beat Tulsa in November. On a neutral court. By most metrics the 4th best team in the AAC. But I missed that and apologize. Still, though, that makes #45 Tulsa their best OOC win. Not impressed.

And they beat A&M on the road. They played them once, and when A&M was in a funk. Give them credit.

But they have the 159th highest SOS. They've lot to three sub-.500 teams.

And their advanced metrics--and RPI--is below the bulk of the AAC's good teams.

Again, I stand by my point: USCe stinks, and they're record is inflated by being in a mediocre conference and playing an easy schedule within it.

 

[huskiesnyc]

You should be a politician tzz. You said Hofstra was SC's best win which was a lie. Then back tracked and made an excuse that smoking Tulsa was an early lucky win for them. Joe Lunardi agrees with me and has them firmly in the tournament but congrats on getting the support of BY clowns like Jerry to back you. Me and Joey Brackets know what's up.

 

[champs99and04]

You should be a politician tzz. You said Hofstra was SC's best win which was a lie. Then back tracked and made an excuse that smoking Tulsa was an early lucky win for them. Joe Lunardi agrees with me and has them firmly in the tournament but congrats on getting the support of BY clowns like Jerry to back you. Me and Joey Brackets know what's up.

In reality Lunardi's opinion means the same as everyone else's. The committee will decide. I think South Carolina should be in, but they might need to win a game in the SEC Tournament.

 

[kobe]

You should be a politician tzz. You said Hofstra was SC's best win which was a lie. Then back tracked and made an excuse that smoking Tulsa was an early lucky win for them. Joe Lunardi agrees with me and has them firmly in the tournament but congrats on getting the support of BY clowns like Jerry to back you. Me and Joey Brackets know what's up.

I don't think a team that is 51 in the RPI, 52 in the KenPom with an OOC SOS of 267 is firmly in the tournament. I mean if they lose to Georgia for a third time or Mississippi State in their first SEC tournament, they could easily be left out. FWIW they are currently behind the top 5 AAC teams in the KenPom. That Thanksgiving tournament in the Bahamas is their saving grace at the moment.

 

[tzznandrew]

You should be a politician tzz. You said Hofstra was SC's best win which was a lie. Then back tracked and made an excuse that smoking Tulsa was an early lucky win for them. Joe Lunardi agrees with me and has them firmly in the tournament but congrats on getting the support of BY clowns like Jerry to back you. Me and Joey Brackets know what's up.

A lie? It was a mistake, which I readily admitted to. You want to call me a liar: they didn't smoke Tulsa. They jumped out to a huge lead (29-12), but from the 16 minute mark through the end of the game it was a tight game: Generally between 4-8 points, with USCe pushing it to 11 for a possession or two. It was a 2 possession game with under a minute left. Hardly smoking Tulsa.

And you made up that I said it was lucky: I merely pointed out that it was an early, neutral court game, and that despite the loss Tulsa still has better metrics. Luck had nothing to do with it.

Joe Lunardi isn't a particularly good bracketologist, FYI. Bracket matrix has USCe an average of 9, but a number have them out, and even more have them sitting on that 11 or 12 line. They aren't a slam dunk.

And to be fair, whether or not they are in the tournament itself is less what I've taken umbrage with. People pointed out their weak schedule, and then you argued they'd have fewer losses in the American than they do in the SEC. I disagree, both because--as I've shown you--the SEC is only marginally better than the American according to both Sagarin and the RPI, and because, even in the SEC, they didn't play a difficult in conference schedule (which, IMO, undermines their third place finish).

Their in-conference schedule had them play home and aways with: 63 Alabama, 72 Georgia, 139 Tennessee, 144 MSU, and 213 Missouri. And they lost every one of their road return games. They had 10 Top 100 conference games, and 6 were home games (bolded).

13 Kentucky L
20 @A&M W
46 Vandy W
54 Florida W
63 Alabama W
63 @Alabama L
72 Georgia L
72 @Georgia L
85 LSU W
88 @Ole Miss W

Look at the numbers and the locations. Is that a tougher schedule than UConn's 10 Top 100 conference games?

10 SMU W
10 @SMU L
45 Tulsa W
45 @Tulsa L
50 Cincy L
50 @Cincy L
58 Temple L
58 @Temple L
74 Houston L
74 @Houston W

Also, remember, they lost to 3 sub-100 teams, all of whom are under .500, and one of whom was sub-200 RPI. I just don't get what they've done in their mediocre conference that suggests to you they wouldn't have done as poorly--or worse, given the more difficult schedule--in our mediocre conference.

 

[Jerry1714]

You should be a politician tzz. You said Hofstra was SC's best win which was a lie. Then back tracked and made an excuse that smoking Tulsa was an early lucky win for them. Joe Lunardi agrees with me and has them firmly in the tournament but congrats on getting the support of BY clowns like Jerry to back you. Me and Joey Brackets know what's up.

My point was that your statement South Carolina would not have 6 losses in the AAC was unsupported and stupid. You still you have provided zero support for this and your saying that Lunardi has them in the field does not support that (I mean I at least hope you do think it does, no one could actually be that dense). Anytime you want to provide support for this statement I would love to hear it. But hey you think beating Ole Miss is great, so I should understand who I am talking to.

 

[kobe]

Just lost to Georgia for a THIRD time. They have the most mid-major resume of any P5 team like ever. Should be discussed with Monmouth and St. Mary's.

 

[tcf15]

I know, I know..."what do you expect the coach to say" but come on

 

[methodology]

Going to be interesting. St Bonaventure choked away their game tonight to Davidson.

Lots of teams on a tight bubble. Really need to beat temple tomorrow to seal the deal and not leave things in the committee hands

 

[tzznandrew]

Going to be interesting. St Bonaventure choked away their game tonight to Davidson.

Lots of teams on a tight bubble. Really need to beat temple tomorrow to seal the deal and not leave things in the committee hands

Lunardi has both the Bonnies and South Carolina in the field as 10s. They have no wins against worthwhile teams outside of conference...I just don't see how they get in. South Carolina has 1 Top 50 win, and 3 sub-100 losses. Their unbalanced SEC schedule did them no favors, as I pointed out in this thread. They're as mid-major as you can get, and are hanging their hat entirely on that win against A&M.

 

[methodology]

Lunardi field is fluid. If the tourney started today that's who he has in. There still Davidson, long Beach st, lsu and Georgia that could cause a lot of chaos.

South Carolina along with the bonnies are gonna be sweating things out if one of those teams win their tournament