OT: Well It Is About Time

[stamfordhusky]

I don't believe that this video is new to either the NFL or the Raven's organization

I disagree. So does the N.J. Attorney General.

 

[vtcwbuff]

And what I also find concerning about the whole mess is that she married him! I am concerned that this may be part of a sick culture. Remember the NFL players gave Vick "comeback player" when his comeback was from jail after horrific animal abuse.

Or it may just be that he's her high end meal ticket.

 

[temery]

With all I've yet heard, I still think he gets his 9.5 mil minus the 500k+fine for this year
and god know-how much when he sues the NFL.

And I think a segment of public opinion will side with him from a legal perspective.
I mean, if you can't play,
at least collect the big bucks from these clowns.
Whose lawyers obviously can't shoot straight.

I don't side with the idiot. He is in the entertainment industry. He has no value if people wont pay to see him play. His contract likely reflects this fact.

 

[JRRRJ]

You seem to be in the trap that says no one can reform, change their behavior, be forgiven, etc.

I know of a family situation where someone had to change their abusive (verbal, primarily) behavior in the long run for their relationship to work. Both sides wanted it to, and yes, the behavior changed. It took time and patience (on both sides), true understanding (on both sides) and a lot of love. Over a quarter of a century later, one of the happiest married couples I know. It wasn't easy on the rest of us, either, as we all made snap judgments, also on both sides, incidentally.

People do reform in other areas, as well, my argument above remains that I feel actions like his probably should take away your privilege to (for example) play in the NFL; it doesn't mean I don't think he can reform and have a happy marriage and if so should be successful otherwise.

But she has made a log-odds bet. Waiting for some extended proof of sincerity would have been very prudent. People can change, but they very often fail.

And even when they do succeed in the long run , they often backslide during the process of change. In cases such as this, the results of backsliding can be catastrophic for her.

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

But she has made a log-odds bet. Waiting for some extended proof of sincerity would have been very prudent. People can change, but they very often fail.

And even when they do succeed in the long run , they often backslide during the process of change. In cases such as this, the results of backsliding can be catastrophic for her.

I don't disagree, but we act in a vacuum of additional information - for all I know (maybe others do) this could have been their first fight; or their 100th. This could have been the first time he physically threatened (never mind assaulted) her or it could have been the 100th. We don't know.

Since we don't know, it is a bit difficult to analyze their personal relationship. What I object to are the pundits who immediately are psychoanalyzing her for staying with him, without knowing any more about their personal relationship than I do.

Kibitzer made a point earlier about this being a very brief incident of loss of control. That may or may not be true, either, but is a point of view that cannot be completely disregarded - same reasoning, we don't know anything except the incident itself.

 

[JRRRJ]

I don't disagree, but we act in a vacuum of additional information - for all I know (maybe others do) this could have been their first fight; or their 100th. This could have been the first time he physically threatened (never mind assaulted) her or it could have been the 100th. We don't know.

Since we don't know, it is a bit difficult to analyze their personal relationship. What I object to are the pundits who immediately are psychoanalyzing her for staying with him, without knowing any more about their personal relationship than I do.

Kibitzer made a point earlier about this being a very brief incident of loss of control. That may or may not be true, either, but is a point of view that cannot be completely disregarded - same reasoning, we don't know anything except the incident itself.

Sorry, but that's way over my line as an apologist for bad behavior.

I haven't seen the video, but the descriptions I've read say he:
1. Knocked unconscious someone he knew well enough to marry shortly thereafter
2. Dragged her unceremoniously out of the elevator.
3. Stood by while others saw to her well-being.

This is not a "brief" demonstration of callous disregard for another human. It's an extended display of doing what is important to you while ignoring the results of your actions on others.

 

[Kibitzer]

I don't side with the idiot. He is in the entertainment industry. He has no value if people wont pay to see him play. His contract likely reflects this fact.

No value? When he was introduced recently at a game, he got a rousing ovation from the fans.

Same folks that admired Ray Lewis so much that his statue resides right outside the stadium.

 

[temery]

No value? When he was introduced recently at a game, he got a rousing ovation from the fans.

Same folks that admired Ray Lewis so much that his statue resides right outside the stadium.

No value, IF ...

 

[HuskyNan]

Or it may just be that he's her high end meal ticket.

Do you think that pro athletes are attracted to models and actresses because they think they'll enjoy lively intellectual debates with the women? Almost everyone is attracted to their partner for some kind of superficial reason - money and looks are two common reasons - but most marry because they care for the other person.

I am going to assume you didn't think that the VICTIM in this case is overlooking being assaulted by Rice because she thinks she'll get a nice payoff. It would be more likely that she is suffering from Battered Woman's Syndrome.

 

[genosguy]

Seems social media occasionally do serve the ends of society and justice. The leaked elevator tape on Rice's abominable attack on his girlfriend forces Ravens to man up and sack the B**tar*!

http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2014/09/08/newly-surfaced-video-shows-ray-rice-punching-fiancee/

Unfortunately---any reduction in this guys pay OR the Stoppage of that PAY had a very large effect on the Woman knocked out.
She (stupidly) is now his wife so his prospects for the future are tied to hers. She could divorce him (smarttest move) but I doubt she will soon. So the decent thing for the NFL and Court system is to get him into a Anger Management Program, and keep him there, and tell him and his spouse that any further actions of this type will kill his future, if it hasn't already.
What everyone forgets is that Pro, College and even HS football requires aggressive, tough, guys with chips on their shoulders--it's how the NFL and HS's get the kids ready for games---pound em, hit em, punch em, knock em down and walk all over them.

 

[Beemer]

Unfortunately---any reduction in this guys pay OR the Stoppage of that PAY had a very large effect on the Woman knocked out.
She (stupidly) is now his wife so his prospects for the future are tied to hers. She could divorce him (smarttest move) but I doubt she will soon. So the decent thing for the NFL and Court system is to get him into a Anger Management Program, and keep him there, and tell him and his spouse that any further actions of this type will kill his future, if it hasn't already.
What everyone forgets is that Pro, College and even HS football requires aggressive, tough, guys with chips on their shoulders--it's how the NFL and HS's get the kids ready for games---pound em, hit em, punch em, knock em down and walk all over them.

There are plenty of aggressive, tough guys with chips on their shoulders in college & pro football who don't beat the snot out of their significant others. There is no excuse or explanation for what Ray Rice did to his wife.

I just pray Rice doesn't take this out on her and she ends up in the hospital or worse.

 

[genosguy]

I don't disagree, but we act in a vacuum of additional information - for all I know (maybe others do) this could have been their first fight; or their 100th. This could have been the first time he physically threatened (never mind assaulted) her or it could have been the 100th. We don't know.

Since we don't know, it is a bit difficult to analyze their personal relationship. What I object to are the pundits who immediately are psychoanalyzing her for staying with him, without knowing any more about their personal relationship than I do.

Kibitzer made a point earlier about this being a very brief incident of loss of control. That may or may not be true, either, but is a point of view that cannot be completely disregarded - same reasoning, we don't know anything except the incident itself.

Sound thinking--but among the few. The MEDIA's business is all about hype--the Today's show has this guy dead and buried. One upon a time (and no fairy tale) the Media offered only the facts, not how they feel about a story. That's how news is presented--and it gets the blood boiling of us all and we over react (I call knee jerking). We have today, event sponsored laws from Newtown to the assault rifle bank robbery in Calif (never happened again) that fathered laws. Maybe some good but most only take away personal freedoms. Too bad most are too young to remember the real freedom of the old common sense USA.
Remember they have a child--evidently the relationship is over 9 months long.

 

[genosguy]

There are plenty of aggressive, tough guys with chips on their shoulders in college & pro football who don't beat the snot out of their significant others. There is no excuse or explanation for what Ray Rice did to his wife.

I just pray Rice doesn't take this out on her and she ends up in the hospital or worse.

What you failed to say---for all you know. No stats on the subject, not you nor I can make either judgement. I was just saying that aggressive behavior is expected in football (not my favorite game--I'd prefer to stay with Uc WBB). It was not intended as an excuse--no excuse is acceptable, just what could be his mentality and it was a reaction--not an action. If she ends up in the hospital you'll know about it instantly. Point is take money away from him, you take money away from her and the kid.

 

[genosguy]

There are plenty of aggressive, tough guys with chips on their shoulders in college & pro football who don't beat the snot out of their significant others. There is no excuse or explanation for what Ray Rice did to his wife.

I just pray Rice doesn't take this out on her and she ends up in the hospital or worse.

Can you deny that Pro down to HS coaches don't demand aggressive behavior or that you have not hear a football coach use the terms hit em, pound em, dump em, knock em down, step on em. If you haven't you haven't been near the coaches.

 

[genosguy]

Michael McCann's over lawyerly baloney in SI glosses over essential issues.

1. It is and was a matter of known fact that Rice violently struck his wife which had the effect of causing her to be unconscious.
The fact that a tape emerges that shows the act in living color does not alter that information. He went through a legal
process and was convicted and punished by the state of New Jersey and by the NFL. Less clear is the situ with his team. But the Ravens are on the
record of supporting the NFL's handling of the affair and making numerous public statements to that effect. In any grey area they lose
in a civil proceeding.

2. All this legal mumbo jumbo is being tendered by experts (?) who are have surely not pursued Ray's specific contract. Neither have I.
I suspect that his manager retained the services of a knowledgeable contract lawyer and that the document itself has numerous
protections.

3. if you think that the player's Union is going to be enthusiastic about players being punished multiple times for the same offense, then
you are a tooth fairy candidate.

When a person is punished for breaking a law or some infraction, get punished by his company, by the STATE, I ask what happened to double jeopardy ?? Since when is the MEDIA the judge of what is LEGAL and right (the same media that gave us Norman Lear). The media's job once was to report the news, now it modifies its, makes social commentary during the news, and effects how the companies rules and the law is delivered outside of the Consititution. We must take care of Crowd Mentality and allowing masses to effect the outcome of our legal processes. That was the French Revolution--kill the SOB/s regardless of their part in social injustice.

 

[UcMiami]

I find the video very disturbing, but ... what did people think happened in that elevator? And the video that has been out there for ever was pretty disturbing showing Rice in caveman mode violently dragging an unconscious woman from an elevator which is in some ways more disturbing. People do snap and react violently in a moment (see bar fights, etc.) but usually they are remorseful immediately, and especially to a friend/family member.
So, I do think all this media attention to the video is pretty disingenuous. Do you really have to see the punch to understand the violence?!
And unless Rice said he pushed her and she lost her footing and hit her head on the rail when interviewed by both the NFL and the Ravens, their reaction now is more PR than anything else. If he did lie in the interviews, I think that probably solves the legal 'issues' for the NFL.
On his contract - he got a huge signing bonus and he gets to keep that, but this and future years are not guaranteed and an NFL team can cut a player at anytime. I doubt anyone would try to prove collusion if no team is interested in signing him if he is reinstated into the NFL. Lots of players with bad track history aren't signed - Richie Incognito being the current example.
I do think a lifetime ban is an extreme reaction - I don't condone violence of any kind, but if this were a bar fight and Rice had cold cocked some chump in a bar, he'd be done for assault and might be banned for a year. Because it was a woman, do we make that a lifetime ban? There are players in the league who have committed vehicular manslaughter, and various other pretty nasty things. To take away a person's livelihood for ever is pretty drastic for a first offense regardless of what that offense was (short of murder and a few other things.) I have no idea of what kind of person Rice is, but I have never heard any report of previous violent behavior and I think we would have had there been any.
I do agree that people are jumping from a single occurrence to 'serial abuser' very quickly.

 

[Kibitzer]

One upon a time (and no fairy tale) the Media offered only the facts, not how they feel about a story.

There was never such a time. The rule (as old as the printing press) for reporting in print medium (later to visual) has always been:

"If it bleeds, it leads,"​

 

[msf22b]

This whole horrible episode is morphing into a whole new story
The AP is now reporting that the NFL had the tape

And lied to us?


What a mess, becoming much bigger story that Ray Rice's left hook to the kisser.
(If that's possible).

 

[sarals24]

Brief incident? He could have killed her. She's in a cycle of abuse...it's not only physical, it's psychological. She apologized FOR GETTING KNOCKED IN THE FACE.

 

[pinotbear]

I disagree. So does the N.J. Attorney General.

check today's AP report.

 

[Wally East]

There was never such a time. The rule (as old as the printing press) for reporting in print medium (later to visual) has always been:

"If it bleeds, it leads,"​

Ugh, seriously. The myth that journalism used to be this pure thing but isn't any more is harmful. It was newspapers that pushed the US into the Spanish-American War so they could sell newspapers. It's not new.

 

[msf22b]

Wolves are closing in on the commish!

LA Times: http://www.latimes.com/sports/nfl/la-sp-rice-goodell-plaschke-20140911-column.html

NY Post: http://nypost.com/2014/09/11/roger-goodell-is-now-on-the-hot-seat/

The Punch line (hah) of the latter is: perhaps Ray Rice's left hook decked Goodell as well as his wife.

Honey, the toast is burning.

 

[UcMiami]

Ugh, seriously. The myth that journalism used to be this pure thing but isn't any more is harmful. It was newspapers that pushed the US into the Spanish-American War so they could sell newspapers. It's not new.

I agree that there has always been an agenda with news reporting. But ... I think we are living in an era where actual hard national and international news is very hard to come by and 'news' programs have almost entirely been replaced by punditry, political talk shows, and sensationalism.
The 24 hour cable news channel used to actually have a few hours of straight news - now it is almost impossible to find unless we have an OJ car chase or a Boston bombing or a missing Malaysian airplane, and then that 24 hr coverage devolves very quick in wild speculation and theorizing, with delightful 'live' reporter moments of 'I think I just heard something, yes you can see there, its a car. I don't know anything about this car but is moving down this street so it might be important. No it is just my producer. Back to you, Bob!'
And with the consolidation of news media and the reduction of actual reporters and the greater reliance on AP wire service there is less and less actual news being reported and stories being investigated at every level down to the local newspapers. I picked up one of the local newspapers in CT for a train trip into NYC a few weeks ago and was amazed that I could read it basically cover to cover in 15 minutes.