OT: Well It Is About Time | The Boneyard

OT: Well It Is About Time

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KnightBridgeAZ

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Like some others, I assumed there was a reason why prosecutors didn't throw the book at him, and was prepared to give him a second chance.

Forget about it. Sadly, have to hope he never plays again. I don't wish him ill with life, I'm not someone who thinks folks cannot change. What I do think, however, is that committing this act means you should not play football.

That said, I would love to see the same punishment dished out for folks who DUI, engage in weapons violations, etc.
 

pinotbear

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It's hard to reconcile the "slap on the wrist" two-game suspension, and the Raven's initial reaction, with what they're saying and doing now. I don't believe that this video is new to either the NFL or the Raven's organization - and, if it hadn't come out, Rice would be still a valued Raven and NFL player. Tells you all you need to know about the League and the franchise - reality doesn't matter a dam' bit, it's all public perception.
 

KnightBridgeAZ

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It's hard to reconcile the "slap on the wrist" two-game suspension, and the Raven's initial reaction, with what they're saying and doing now. I don't believe that this video is new to either the NFL or the Raven's organization - and, if it hadn't come out, Rice would be still a valued Raven and NFL player. Tells you all you need to know about the League and the franchise - reality doesn't matter a dam' bit, it's all public perception.
While I agree about the league in general . . . the article I read specifically stated that the NFL claimed they asked for all videos and were never given this one. Actually, with this video, I can't understand why the prosecutor couldn't throw the book at him.
 

msf22b

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I'm really troubled by the double jeopardy problem here.
This is just not the American way of dealing with crime and punishment.
And the former ballplayer has, in my view excellent grounds for several lawsuits.

It was well known and not contested that he caused his girlfriend, (now his wife) to be knocked unconscious.
And that the released video at the time, showed him dragging her out of the elevator with enormous disrespect and malice.
(to me, in some sense worse than the punch itself).
Punishment was boggled by all.

Now that we see the punch itself, from a propaganda/marketing point of view everything is changed.

But in my view, not legally.

If I was a lawyer (with regard the future lawsuits)
i'd much rather be on Ray Rice's side, that the NFL or the Ravens.

it's going to cost them millions to settle this.
 

Icebear

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I'm really troubled by the double jeopardy problem here.
This is just not the American way of dealing with crime and punishment.
And the former ballplayer has, in my view excellent grounds for several lawsuits.

It was well known and not contested that he caused his girlfriend, (now his wife) to be knocked unconscious.
And that the released video at the time, showed him dragging her out of the elevator with enormous disrespect and malice.
(to me, in some sense worse than the punch itself).
Punishment was boggled by all.

Now that we see the punch itself, from a propaganda/marketing point of view everything is changed.

But in my view, not legally.

If I was a lawyer (with regard the future lawsuits)
i'd much rather be on Ray Rice's side, that the NFL or the Ravens.

it's going to cost them millions to settle this.
The court of public opinion nor private enterprise has no obligation to double jeopardy. That is only a legal standard.
 

Orangutan

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I'm really troubled by the double jeopardy problem here.
This is just not the American way of dealing with crime and punishment.
And the former ballplayer has, in my view excellent grounds for several lawsuits.

It was well known and not contested that he caused his girlfriend, (now his wife) to be knocked unconscious.
And that the released video at the time, showed him dragging her out of the elevator with enormous disrespect and malice.
(to me, in some sense worse than the punch itself).
Punishment was boggled by all.

Now that we see the punch itself, from a propaganda/marketing point of view everything is changed.

But in my view, not legally.

If I was a lawyer (with regard the future lawsuits)
i'd much rather be on Ray Rice's side, that the NFL or the Ravens.

it's going to cost them millions to settle this.

NFL contracts are non-guaranteed. Teams have always been able to cut players at any time, risk-free.
 

msf22b

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With all I've yet heard, I still think he gets his 9.5 mil minus the 500k+fine for this year
and god know-how much when he sues the NFL.

And I think a segment of public opinion will side with him from a legal perspective.
I mean, if you can't play,
at least collect the big bucks from these clowns.
Whose lawyers obviously can't shoot straight.
 

RockyMTblue2

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I would bet "the lawyers" didn't get a vote on this one. This is the NFL protecting its already battered image and if they had to pay this mug some money to be rid of him it would be cheap at the price. And don't these contracts all have both morals clauses and the one about doing anything to bring disrepute to the team? That video not only showed that hideous hit, it showed his absolutely callous behavior thereafter, including having her lay on that floor for quite a while, then dragging her to a slumped semi-sitting position, then walking aside and letting a stranger protect her from the elevator door.
 

msf22b

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This is on topic: http://www.si.com/nfl/2014/09/08/ray-rice-video-legal-fallout-roger-goodell-baltimore-ravens

Synopsis: The NFL is within the bound of the personal conduct policy, as agreed to in the CBA, if they did not know about this video. The Ravens can cut him for pretty much any reason.

Michael McCann's over lawyerly baloney in SI glosses over essential issues.

1. It is and was a matter of known fact that Rice violently struck his wife which had the effect of causing her to be unconscious.
The fact that a tape emerges that shows the act in living color does not alter that information. He went through a legal
process and was convicted and punished by the state of New Jersey and by the NFL. Less clear is the situ with his team. But the Ravens are on the
record of supporting the NFL's handling of the affair and making numerous public statements to that effect. In any grey area they lose
in a civil proceeding.

2. All this legal mumbo jumbo is being tendered by experts (?) who are have surely not pursued Ray's specific contract. Neither have I.
I suspect that his manager retained the services of a knowledgeable contract lawyer and that the document itself has numerous
protections.

3. if you think that the player's Union is going to be enthusiastic about players being punished multiple times for the same offense, then
you are a tooth fairy candidate.
 

HuskyNan

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3. if you think that the player's Union is going to be enthusiastic about players being punished multiple times for the same offense, then you are a tooth fairy candidate.
I think even the players' union would find it distasteful to defend a man that would knock a person out cold, leave her on the floor without even checking to see if she's breathing, then drag her out of the elevator to be cared for by someone else.
 

msf22b

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Distasteful yes, the whole matter reeks.
But the lawyers will have a field day
And as much as the players union will have to hold their collective noses,
They simply cannot allow the precedent to stand.
 

msf22b

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Forbes seems to think Rice has a slightly better chance of mounting a legal challenge: http://www.forbes.com/sites/darrenh...nite-suspension-of-ray-rice-survive-scrutiny/

Slightly, you say? :)

A much better analysis of the legal options than SI's
More or less my position but more info and better stated (I'm not a lawyer, but I did stay at…)
I think the union will grieve
Rice will sue
And there may be further protections in his contract.

And by next season, he'll be playing for the Raiders.
 
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There will be a lawyer to convince Rice that he's an aggrieved party, and there may be a payday...but the team and the league are finally taking the appropriate action. It's a shame they had to be shamed into it...
 

Kibitzer

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NFL conracts are not guaranteed (like baseball). When a player signs, he grabs all the "bonus for signing" that he can get. For salary cap purposes, the value of the bonus is amortized over the life of the contract (but the player has banked the dough).

Players can be cut anytime. (Has to be that way if only because of unforeseen career ending injuries.)

As I see it, Rice has no legal gripe with the Ravens. The indefinite or lifetime suspension by the league may be legally contestible. So if that element of punishment is tossed, there remains the possibility that no team would sign him. Then, here we go again, that could be perceived as collusion.

My view is that the original punishment was ridiculous and now everbody is piling on. Yes, he must be punished for losing control of himself for a very brief time and, in a rage, committing a brutal assault. Once suitably punished, allowance should be made for redemption. His wife and father-in-law have apparently done so.
 

KnightBridgeAZ

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My view is that the original punishment was ridiculous and now everbody is piling on. Yes, he must be punished for losing control of himself for a very brief time and, in a rage, committing a brutal assault. Once suitably punished, allowance should be made for redemption. His wife and father-in-law have apparently done so.
What I try to separate out is how doing what he did should affect his role as a representative of a sports league / franchise as opposed to what legal actions are taken against him as opposed to his personal future.

I just don't think that the folks in pro sports that use drugs, drink and drive, commit assaults, etc. , who are, after all, "brand representatives" and theoretical role models should be in that position. In a variation of the old "to whom much is given much is expected" I personally don't care if he ever plays football again and I strongly think he shouldn't for a very long time, by which point . . .

Separately, as a person, he very well may have seriously regretted his actions, may intend never to do any such thing again, and has perhaps re-earned the trust of his wife and father-in-law. So I have no problem once he has settled whatever legal issues the incident has caused, that he have success. I just feel that he might have forfeited his opportunity to have that success in the NFL.
 

msf22b

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Just as a little aside; Goodell, has ignored his own, very recently stated policy of 6 games suspension for a first offense.
Doesn't it remind you of certain folks at the NCAA?
 

Kibitzer

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Just as a little aside; Goodell, has ignored his own, very recently stated policy of 6 games suspension for a first offense.
Doesn't it remind you of certain folks at the NCAA?

Goodell, like the NCAA, has neither a policy nor any conviction. His response to this situation is to focus solely on the PR aspect of this issue. He (and the Ravens' owner) care ONLY about minimizing damage to the image of the league and the team. The PSU spin managers are being tried in court for similar offenses.
 
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And what I also find concerning about the whole mess is that she married him! I am concerned that this may be part of a sick culture. Remember the NFL players gave Vick "comeback player" when his comeback was from jail after horrific animal abuse.
 

JRRRJ

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Slightly, you say? :)

A much better analysis of the legal options than SI's
More or less my position but more info and better stated (I'm not a lawyer, but I did stay at…)
I think the union will grieve
Rice will sue
And there may be further protections in his contract.

And by next season, he'll be playing for the Raiders.

It first must be "deemed that the Ravens’ release of Rice is considered “discipline”" for section 4 to be applicable . Whether firing (which most articles I've seen mention explicitly is allowed for almost any reason) is discipline may be argued, but it seems in my uninformed view unlikely to be upheld.
 

KnightBridgeAZ

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And what I also find concerning about the whole mess is that she married him! I am concerned that this may be part of a sick culture. Remember the NFL players gave Vick "comeback player" when his comeback was from jail after horrific animal abuse.
You seem to be in the trap that says no one can reform, change their behavior, be forgiven, etc.

I know of a family situation where someone had to change their abusive (verbal, primarily) behavior in the long run for their relationship to work. Both sides wanted it to, and yes, the behavior changed. It took time and patience (on both sides), true understanding (on both sides) and a lot of love. Over a quarter of a century later, one of the happiest married couples I know. It wasn't easy on the rest of us, either, as we all made snap judgments, also on both sides, incidentally.

People do reform in other areas, as well, my argument above remains that I feel actions like his probably should take away your privilege to (for example) play in the NFL; it doesn't mean I don't think he can reform and have a happy marriage and if so should be successful otherwise.
 
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