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OT: USA 3 Panama 2

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Mots010 said:
Back to the game, anyone else excited about this Johannsson kid? It looked like he dropped back into the midfield a bit in the second half the other day, and his play in the build up was impressive. He has some instincts and skills that few, if any, of the players on our team possess, and i can see why Klinsy spent a year recruiting him. I could see him being an x factor next summer.
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If the US stays with the 4-5-1 formation that seems to be the one that works well, I see Johannsson as a quality late-match offensive sub that the US can use to spell Altidore at the end of the game or add a second striker when a goal is needed. Every team needs a spark like that and it helps that his game is different from both Altidore & Eddie Johnson.
 
Waquoit said:
Nah, I know guys like you. I coached rec league soccer. They asked me because they were basically out of options. I had no soccer background but my youngest brother was on the team and I had a friend who played in college and they knew he would pitch in. It was basically me or they disband the team. I gave it my best shot, but that didn't stop a few soccer snobs like yourself from giving me a ton of on occaision. You say I wasn't "giving" my time, but "wasting" my time? Ef you.
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You poor thing, i hope you can get the help needed to get over it.

Soccer snob? If you saw coaches put five year olds on a regulation baseball diamond, have them pitch to each other, and play a nine inning game, what would you do? Cause if you suggest to them they aren't helping the kids learn properly, they are wasting everyone's time, and there are better ways to do things then you are a baseball snob giving some poor guys a bunch of .

Playing 9v9 or 11v11 with five year olds on a youth field with regulation goals is a waste of time and if someone politely tries to explain that to you they aren't a snob they are someone you should listen to. Unless your arrogance and ego won't allow it.

Youth games shouldn't involve more than 4v4 in an area smaller than the penalty box with small cones for goals.

I'm sorry that you wasted your time. Sometimes we have to learn lessons the hard way.ay e next time you'll use the internet to do some research about sonde things you can do at the youth level instead of looking to pick a fight because you think you know someone based off one post.
 
Waquoit said:
Nah, I know guys like you. I coached rec league soccer. They asked me because they were basically out of options. I had no soccer background but my youngest brother was on the team and I had a friend who played in college and they knew he would pitch in. It was basically me or they disband the team. I gave it my best shot, but that didn't stop a few soccer snobs like yourself from giving me a ton of on occaision. You say I wasn't "giving" my time, but "wasting" my time? Ef you.
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Waquoit, it's great that you helped out when the kids needed you. Sounds like it was you or nothing, and it's always better to have someone that's willing to devote his/her time than to have nothing at all.

But if we are all being honest about why the US, a country of over 300 million and with more resources / fields than any other country in the world, cannot compete for a World Cup, the answer is exactly what you just supplied us with. The fact that too many of our youth teams are not properly coached. It's not your fault, but it is exactly what it is.

And to Samcro, who believes that our youth are trained to a higher technical level than the youth of England, I'll just say that I have some land in the everglades to sell you. I can tell you with great certainty, at least when it comes to a comparison with Italy, that the youth here are light-years behind. In fact, while many of our 15 and 16 year-olds are battling on high school fields, many of the elite Italians are already connected with professional teams' "junior sides". Some even with contracts that would make you say "screw college."

Can I blame the US? Not really. You need professionals to train professionals, and we don't have enough supply. Also, as some have already alluded to, we don't value this as our main national sport. That means that we aren't all that concerned about whether someone's older brother is coaching or not. Those are the types of things that have to change if we really want to get serious about the World Cup...
 
As an addendum, my next door neighbor coaches his daughter's 6-7 year old team. He literally....and I mean LITERALLY...just learned about the rules by picking up a book at the library. I don't blame him, because like Waquoit, he's donating his time and effort to help foster some growth and interest in the game. But let's be honest about it: that doesn't happen in countries that are competing for World Cups. Plain and simple...
 
UConnDan97 said:
As an addendum, my next door neighbor coaches his daughter's 6-7 year old team. He literally....and I mean LITERALLY...just learned about the rules by picking up a book at the library. I don't blame him, because like Waquoit, he's donating his time and effort to help foster some growth and interest in the game. But let's be honest about it: that doesn't happen in countries that are competing for World Cups. Plain and simple...
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Most of those countries don't have super programs for the girls. That's one area the US has an edge over most on.
 
ZooCougar said:
Most of those countries don't have super programs for the girls. That's one area the US has an edge over most on.
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That's true. Most of those countries don't value the female soccer player (or maybe even the female athlete). That is one area where the United States has always been a world-leader; a fact that I'm very proud of. And it also makes it clear why we are ALWAYS competing for the women's World Cup. Are we just technically better on the women's side than the men's? No. It's just that the rest of the world doesn't care about their women players...
 
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The cost concern is changing somewhat with the MLS academies not costing the same as other older teams, and with an avenue to a pro contract, they will vacuum up the quality players in their region. MLS is where US soccer will grow. The league is getting better each and every year.

Go Dynamo!
 
WingU-Conn said:
You poor thing, i hope you can get the help needed to get over it.

Soccer snob? If you saw coaches put five year olds on a regulation baseball diamond, have them pitch to each other, and play a nine inning game, what would you do? Cause if you suggest to them they aren't helping the kids learn properly, they are wasting everyone's time, and there are better ways to do things then you are a baseball snob giving some poor guys a bunch of .

Playing 9v9 or 11v11 with five year olds on a youth field with regulation goals is a waste of time and if someone politely tries to explain that to you they aren't a snob they are someone you should listen to. Unless your arrogance and ego won't allow it.

Youth games shouldn't involve more than 4v4 in an area smaller than the penalty box with small cones for goals.

I'm sorry that you wasted your time. Sometimes we have to learn lessons the hard way.ay e next time you'll use the internet to do some research about sonde things you can do at the youth level instead of looking to pick a fight because you think you know someone based off one post.
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Who says I wasted my time? Besides you, that is. I just ran into a kid I coached the other day. Actually not a kid, he's in his late-30's. We had a few laughs and went on our way. It was fun. Like rec sports should be.
 
I am a realist in that I know it unlikely my boys will get a sports scholarship, much less a MLS contract when they grow-up. Thus, I want to keep my boys in just the rec program for now so that they can play soccer, baseball, basketball, hockey, lacrosse (my wife refuses to let my sons play football, even if my oldest has a heck of a spiral for his age) for now. Let them have fun. When they hit 10 or if they ask, then I will let them focus on 2 sports and then 1 or 2 in high school. I want them to have fun, enjoy being on a team, and stay busy. Down the road, a scholarship would just be an extra benefit.

I have one boy on my son’s soccer team who is already playing soccer 10 months a year. I rarely see him smile or laugh on the field. I can tell his Dad drives him hard and he’s not even 8. He is very good; but, more likely than not, he will be burnt-out by high school. A kid on another team who is only 7 is so drilled to score goals he pushed his own teammates out of the way and got tossed last week for continuing to kick at the ball after the goalkeeper covered-up the initial shot. His Dad, where the issue truly lies, was furious that he was tossed; but, kicking the goalkeeper well after a save is a Red Card in any level of soccer. Now, I have to have a rec meeting with both this weekend to see what do to next. I feel bad for the kid.
 
UConnDan97 said:
And to Samcro, who believes that our youth are trained to a higher technical level than the youth of England, I'll just say that I have some land in the everglades to sell you. I can tell you with great certainty, at least when it comes to a comparison with Italy, that the youth here are light-years behind. In fact, while many of our 15 and 16 year-olds are battling on high school fields, many of the elite Italians are already connected with professional teams' "junior sides". Some even with contracts that would make you say "screw college."
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I didn't say I believed or didn't believe it how well coached US youth soccer was compared to England, just passed along what a Brit friend shared with me from his experience when talking about the coaching his kids are getting in the US. I am sure with your experience coaching youth soccer in both the UK and the US you would know best though.... You're also talking about 15 and 16 year olds, he was referencing 8-9-10 year olds.
 
UConnDan97 said:
Waquoit, it's great that you helped out when the kids needed you. Sounds like it was you or nothing, and it's always better to have someone that's willing to devote his/her time than to have nothing at all.

But if we are all being honest about why the US, a country of over 300 million and with more resources / fields than any other country in the world, cannot compete for a World Cup, the answer is exactly what you just supplied us with. The fact that too many of our youth teams are not properly coached. It's not your fault, but it is exactly what it is.

And to Samcro, who believes that our youth are trained to a higher technical level than the youth of England, I'll just say that I have some land in the everglades to sell you. I can tell you with great certainty, at least when it comes to a comparison with Italy, that the youth here are light-years behind. In fact, while many of our 15 and 16 year-olds are battling on high school fields, many of the elite Italians are already connected with professional teams' "junior sides". Some even with contracts that would make you say "screw college."

Can I blame the US? Not really. You need professionals to train professionals, and we don't have enough supply. Also, as some have already alluded to, we don't value this as our main national sport. That means that we aren't all that concerned about whether someone's older brother is coaching or not. Those are the types of things that have to change if we really want to get serious about the World Cup...
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High School Fields??? So is it safe to say you've never heard of The Developmental Academy?
http://academy.demosphere.com/Clubs/index_E.html
http://academy.demosphere.com/Clubs/index_E.html
 
The best youth soccer in America isn't being played in the high schools. That model just won't work, the season is too short and they don't play enough.
 
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ZooCougar said:
The best youth soccer in America isn't being played in the high schools. That model just won't work, the season is too short and they don't play enough.
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aren't most of the high school kids on premier clubs too? At least that's how it seems in my town - so they are playing virutally year round.
 
John said:
aren't most of the high school kids on premier clubs too? At least that's how it seems in my town - so they are playing virutally year round.
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As noted before, if the club is one of the ‘official’ developmental academies, ten he (and now she) is not allowed to play High School soccer anymore.
 
Mr. Conehead said:
As noted before, if the club is one of the ‘official’ developmental academies, ten he (and now she) is not allowed to play High School soccer anymore.
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Don't believe that to be true in CT unless it changed very, very recently. I've seen a female player play on both premier and ODP regional teams with international travel between junior and senior high school seasons? Are we talking two different things?
 
huskymedic said:
Don't believe that to be true in CT unless it changed very, very recently. I've seen a female player play on both premier and ODP regional teams with international travel between junior and senior high school seasons? Are we talking two different things?
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I might be confused too on what's "premier". I'm thinking organizations like Acedemia Futbol Club in Cheshire, etc. I'm prety sure those kids play on both AFC and High School teams.
 
.-.
UConnDan97 said:
But if we are all being honest about why the US, a country of over 300 million and with more resources / fields than any other country in the world, cannot compete for a World Cup, the answer is exactly what you just supplied us with. The fact that too many of our youth teams are not properly coached. It's not your fault, but it is exactly what it is...[/I]
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Coaching is the least of the problems, much bigger issues are:

1-elite players in other countries are identified by the time they are 10 and sign with professional teams to develop.
2-The college model does not serve the international game well for player development. I know exceptions can be identified, but the American messi won't be developed in the NCAA structure
3-the mentality that soccer is a scholarship vehicle
4-Americans buck international rules (substitution, etc)
5-if we are all being honest, not enough of the 300 million give a f!ck about the game.
 
Waquoit said:
Who says I wasted my time? Besides you, that is. I just ran into a kid I coached the other day. Actually not a kid, he's in his late-30's. We had a few laughs and went on our way. It was fun. Like rec sports should be.
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Congratulations.

If you're done playing a martyr, maybe you'll realize you are still missing the point.
 
SAMCRO said:
I didn't say I believed or didn't believe it how well coached US youth soccer was compared to England, just passed along what a Brit friend shared with me from his experience when talking about the coaching his kids are getting in the US. I am sure with your experience coaching youth soccer in both the UK and the US you would know best though.... You're also talking about 15 and 16 year olds, he was referencing 8-9-10 year olds.
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I love it. How about this; you take your anecdotal evidence from that one story you heard, and I'll take the rest of soccer (or footballing, if you like) history on my side. Which one do you think wins?

And yes, I was specifically talking about 15 year olds on the Juniors sides, but they also have even younger players, like on the Pulcini or Giovanissimi versions:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juventus_F.C._Youth_Sector

What I'm telling you is that the top players in other major soccer countries are getting a higher level of technical training than our top players. And it's not even debatable....so I'm sorry if that upsets you...
 
FrostyNuggets said:
Coaching is the least of the problems, much bigger issues are:

1-elite players in other countries are identified by the time they are 10 and sign with professional teams to develop.
2-The college model does not serve the international game well for player development. I know exceptions can be identified, but the American messi won't be developed in the NCAA structure
3-the mentality that soccer is a scholarship vehicle
4-Americans buck international rules (substitution, etc)
5-if we are all being honest, not enough of the 300 million give a f!ck about the game.
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I agree with everything that you said, except for the first sentence. I would argue that your points numbered 1 and 2 are directly related to the fact that coaching is a big problem here. In other countries, coaches are the ones identifying the talent in the younger squads, and coaches are the ones that are developing players at ages younger than college.

But you are absolutely correct in all five points...
 
Nobody is arguing with you ... if your point is that the US is lagging behind the rest of the world when it comes to developing elite level soccer talent. That point is pretty obvious based on results.

However, when you mention the difference in developing talent as US high schools vs. Italian Junior sides ... without mentioning The Academy, I wasn't sure if you knew The Academy existed. I think it was a safe assumption since you never mentioned it.

Now that you've stated that you knew about the academy ... why would you say that it's US high schools vs Italian Junior sides? Nobody within US soccer is scouting high school games. And I'm pretty sure that SAMCRO's Brit was probably talking about academy ... as the development is pretty high level and the results are just beginning to be appreciated since it's inception in 2007.

My friend's son is a U13 with Oakwood and he travels to Jersey, Philly, or Baltimore almost every weekend. The playing scheduled is based on a 10 month model. If he stays on this pace he will never play for his high school. And if academy starts to phase in their residency plans in the next few years, he may not even be living at home while in his high school years. Of course those are big ifs ... and my friend openly admits his kid could end up in high school anyway ... which means he'll probably never be scouted by Claudio Reyna! :)
 
.-.
When my brother and I were kids, we had a football, baseball gear, a soccer ball and hockey gear. We had a big field at the end of our street to play in, and a pond in the woods behind our house to play hockey on in the winter. I can without reservation say that our game of choice to play with our friends (even in the winter) was American football. Soccer was generally second, with the occasional baseball or hockey game.

I've been traveling to Brazil for 20 years and living here since 2010. My nephews, students and friends' kids play futebol. Period. It is team sport option 1, 2, 3 and 4.

Option 1- full field traditional futebol.
Option 2- beach soccer.
Option 3- Futsal- which has its own professional league and is very popular.
Option 4- fute-volei- volleyball using soccer skills (no hands). Very popular at the beach. Some guys who specialize in this sport have AMAZING skills.

AFTER these options come volleyball and basketball as far as team sports are comncerned. Really among my students the second sport after futebol is surfing. They are taught skills as well. Kids whose families have money send them to camps and academies to play. They learn in phys-ed in school. Poor kids play in local campos, and trust me on this, the formal and informal network of scouts is watching EVERY campo for potential talent. Promising kids are identified very quickly, regardless of their socio-economic level. The difference isn't skills being taught, and the development system is secondary. American kids go out the door to play one of 3 or 4 popular team sports. Brazilian kids go out to play futebol. That is the principal difference between Brazilian soccer and American soccer.

That having been said, there is no reason that the sport can't be developed in the U.S. to compete at the highest international level. The process started 20 years ago and hiring Klinsmann was a major step forward.
 
Kgun7 said:
Nobody is arguing with you ... if your point is that the US is lagging behind the rest of the world when it comes to developing elite level soccer talent. That point is pretty obvious based on results.

However, when you mention the difference in developing talent as US high schools vs. Italian Junior sides ... without mentioning The Academy, I wasn't sure if you knew The Academy existed. I think it was a safe assumption since you never mentioned it.

Now that you've stated that you knew about the academy ... why would you say that it's US high schools vs Italian Junior sides? Nobody within US soccer is scouting high school games. And I'm pretty sure that SAMCRO's Brit was probably talking about academy ... as the development is pretty high level and the results are just beginning to be appreciated since it's inception in 2007.

My friend's son is a U13 with Oakwood and he travels to Jersey, Philly, or Baltimore almost every weekend. The playing scheduled is based on a 10 month model. If he stays on this pace he will never play for his high school. And if academy starts to phase in their residency plans in the next few years, he may not even be living at home while in his high school years. Of course those are big ifs ... and my friend openly admits his kid could end up in high school anyway ... which means he'll probably never be scouted by Claudio Reyna! :)
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You say that nobody is arguing with me, but I'm pretty sure there are a few in this thread who are arguing with me about developing elite level soccer talent. And one of them, you've already mentioned.

I'm well versed in all the options for soccer in this country, as well as being well versed in the options at Oakwood (that's where you'll find me on Sunday nights every week...I've been playing there since I was about 16...). Don't let the football avatar fool you; I've never played a single down of organized football (American). Just some tackle football at the park growing up. But I've played soccer for over 30 years, and I've coached as well, including a travel team. My point was, and still is, we are behind the leading countries in terms of technical development. I agree with RioDog that we have been making positive strides over the last 20 years, but we are not there yet. Anyone who tells you that we are is not being fully honest...
 
Aren't some of you missing the point ...

You have 5-9 years running around on a field. Enjoying being on a Team. WTF. That is far better than a many of their alternatives. We don't have to be a nation that always has the BEST sports training because we want to compete at the World Cup level. I think its great that Waquoit is out there getting kids active and having fun.

How are we going to improve? The American way. Elite kids are going to be spotted (as I remember when I was coaching) at 5 and 6 and go to travel squads ... and go to a Regional training program ... and go to a NIKE sponsored network. We won't be Italy or England. But, we can get better. We are clearly seeing elements of that in the last few years.
 
ZooCougar said:
5 MLS teams that outdraw baseball

http://www.fidelity.mobi/fiw/GetNew...76443&IMG=&pageoff=0&CUR_STORYID=&cur_action=
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That article is crap. I love that the MLS league is really doing well ... and many many franchises are exciting. But, please ... don't tell me that the LA Galaxy is like the Yankees. etc etc
 
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