OT: Tyson v. Douglas Turns 25

[Danzz]

Tyson in his prime is the best fighter the heavyweight division's ever seen and it's not even close. Ali gets a boost with his civic activism and self-promotion, but I feel like Tyson would have cut him to pieces. Foreman in his prime would have been too slow. Louis could have been heavy handed enough, but he wasn't anywhere near the athlete Tyson was. The only heavyweight that comes close to having that kind of a talent gap between himself and the rest of the field is probably Sullivan - and now we're getting to horse drawn carriages territory...

Hand speed, head movement, ability to punch for obscene power moving forwards and back and a terrifying understanding of the geometry of a boxing ring. I'm probably in the minority here, but the only guy really anywhere close to his league at the time was Tony Tucker (who did rock him pretty bad in their fight, btw), but even that's probably a push.

Tyson's training was bad, the management was bad and there's no doubt he didn't take the fight seriously. His corner didn't even have ice packs and instead were using gloves. It was a sh-- show. All that's true. But I think people have always under-rated Douglas. Douglas motivated, sharp and in shape was *easily* a top 4-5 guy in the division at the time. When he wasn't, he was a punching bag. He had a tremendous jab and his left hook - save for Tyson's overhead right - was probably the best punch in the division. I think the result was a combination of Douglas having an outstanding game plan, his being in great shape and fighting maybe the best fight of his life. I think Tyson's poor performance wasn't as much him being out of shape as it was more of a lack of game plan.

I mean sure, Douglas was a bad match up size/skill for Tyson, but then again so were Tony Tucker and Frank Bruno, really; and Tyson beat both handily. I think Douglas deserves credit for fighting a great fight built on a great game plan and Tyson's corner being completely ill-equipped to come up with any way to get Tyson back into the fight.

Tyson was a great heavyweight fighter but the best, no way. Ali would have picked him apart. If Douglas frustrated Tyson can you imagine what Ali would do?

 

[Dogdeacon]

You have it backwards. Ali was an iconic social figure. People loved Ali. When Frazier knocked him down, many considered that to be a tragedy. People disliked Iron Mike.

Ali - Activist, culturally aware, handsome, articulate, leader, a representative of a race.
Tyson - Brutish, ignorant, unattractive, lisp, inarticulate, goon, "dirty fighter," ear biter, rapist, convicted felon.

In your wildest imagination you can't imagine that those non-boxing traits influence how their fighting careers are judged?

Ali would not have "danced" and "jabbed" at all, if he fought Tyson in his prime. Not one fighter was able to "dance" and "jab" Tyson in his prime. Ali would have tried the dance and jab crap and Tyson would have been up in his grill, in his unique manner, instantly, and Ali would have been just as overwhelmed as everybody else who had Tyson run them over in the ring.

Foreman maintains that he was given spiked water before the fight with Ali and wasn't at his best. Also, Tyson was a quicker and more accurate puncher than Foreman - one of the reasons he was so devastating.

Larry Holmes was KOed exactly one time in his career - it was Tyson.

Also, I went back and watched some Ali fights - he was knocked on his @ss by some British journeyman when he was 21 years old, and he needed his corner to cheat for him (smelling salts and delay through ripped glove) to survive into the next round. Overrated.

Anyway. Fun to hypothesize.

You are wrong. Ali was jailed then banned for the prime of his career and people refused to call him anything but Cassius Clay until the mid-70s when it flipped. Tyron's 3 yr prime vs Ali's 13 yr is a joke. Prison and time away from the ring broke the weaker Tyson but made Ali stronger.

It does amaze me the locality and fervor of Tyson fans. I think speaks more to power of imagining what could of been versus what was. Better to burn too hot and flame out at your peak for immortality. See Dean, James.