OT: Tom Brady GOAT

[upstater]

Mods, please move this to the Pro Sports board.

Oh come on, the Giants thread went 30 odd pages!

 

[Tenspro2002]

Forget about Manning, imagine if Rodgers had a real team.

It's really mind-blowing that GB hasn't even gone to a Super Bowl, nevermind won one, over the last 7 years. They really squandered Rodgers's prime.

Another way you can evaluate the importance of a QB vs. the coach/system is consider what happened in their absence.

2008 Pats without Brady: 11-5
2011 Colts without Manning: 2-14

The Packers have lost Rodgers for portions of seasons, but not whole seasons, but they have clearly been much worse without him.

 

[upstater]

Certainly helps your stats having played 100+ games against the shittiest division in the NFL the last 15+ years.

Take your 6 free wins, walk into playoffs with home field and a bye, and proceed to beat colts/steelers/jets in championship. Rinse and repeat every year.

Win 3 close ones on the leg of the most clutch kicker ever, lose 2x to the Giants, get absolutely gifted 2 by some of the worst coaching calls ever.

Peyton on that team would have put up the same/better.

Their record is better against teams outside the division.

That clutch kicker blew 2 easy FGs against the Panthers.

 

[upstater]

It's really mind-blowing that GB hasn't even gone to a Super Bowl, nevermind won one, over the last 7 years. They really squandered Rodgers's prime.

Another way you can evaluate the importance of a QB vs. the coach/system is consider what happened in their absence.

2008 Pats without Brady: 11-5
2011 Colts without Manning: 2-14

The Packers have lost Rodgers for portions of seasons, but not whole seasons, but they have clearly been much worse without him.

Patriots were 7 wins worse without Brady that year and against very easy competition compared to the previous year (10 playoff teams played in 2007, 3 in 2008).

Colts tanked with Painter at QB because they wanted Luck. When they replaced him with UConn's own, they won their final 2 games.

You're as bad at watching football as you are at watching basketball.

 

[RayIsTheGOAT]

Can people get their head of their asses and just respect the 17 year+ greatness and dominance of the New England Patriots.

Same goes for LeBron. I don't understand the disgust and grudges people hold for some of the great sports figures we will ever see. Especially LeBron and Tom Brady, two great role models and all time greats.

You don't have to like them. Just respect them. The vitriol is pathetic at this point.

 

[upstater]

One of the most interesting thought experiments in the Brady-Manning discussion is to switch their coaches and imagine what the results would have been?.

How many SBs does Peyton win with Belichick as his coach? 7? 8?
How many SBs does Brady win with Jim Mora, Tony Dungy, Jim Caldwell, John Fox, and Gary Kubiak? Maybe 1?

One of the most interesting thought experiments isn't even an experiment. What would have happened if Brady played 2/3rds of his career in domed stadiums like Manning did? Well, since Brady's #s are much better than Manning's domed #s, and passing stats for all domed QBs are much higher than for outdoor QBs (especially in the northeast and midwest), Brady's #s would have been stratospheric.

 

[upstater]

Can people get their head of their asses and just respect the 17 year+ greatness and dominance of the New England Patriots.

Same goes for LeBron. I don't understand the disgust and grudges people hold for some of the great sports figures we will ever see. Especially LeBron and Tom Brady, two great role models and all time greats.

You don't have to like them. Just respect them. The vitriol is pathetic at this point.

They are just bad fans.

I think Jeter was universally respected by New England fans.

 

[superjohn]

It's really mind-blowing that GB hasn't even gone to a Super Bowl, nevermind won one, over the last 7 years. They really squandered Rodgers's prime.

Another way you can evaluate the importance of a QB vs. the coach/system is consider what happened in their absence.

2008 Pats without Brady: 11-5
2011 Colts without Manning: 2-14

The Packers have lost Rodgers for portions of seasons, but not whole seasons, but they have clearly been much worse without him.

It's unreal that McCarthy is still there. Rodgers biggest offensive weapon is Jordy Nelson and the defense has always sucked. It's such a shame.

 

[superjohn]

Their record is better against teams outside the division.

That clutch kicker blew 2 easy FGs against the Panthers.

Yup, that Jets team with the butt fumbler and Sexy Rexy was amazing, there has been so many great teams in that divison over the past 15+ years and the qb play has always been incredible.

 

[Tenspro2002]

One of the most interesting thought experiments isn't even an experiment. What would have happened if Brady played 2/3rds of his career in domed stadiums like Manning did? Well, since Brady's #s are much better than Manning's domed #s, and passing stats for all domed QBs are much higher than for outdoor QBs (especially in the northeast and midwest), Brady's #s would have been stratospheric.

I didn't ask about numbers, I asked about SBs. Swap Brady's and Manning's coaches and Manning has more SBs than Brady, period.

 

[intlzncster]

Yup, that Jets team with the butt fumbler and Sexy Rexy was amazing, there has been so many great teams in that divison over the past 15+ years and the qb play has always been incredible.

That team beat the Pats in the AFC title game.

 

[Robertelamin]

Has anyone talked about Brady's fake injury yet?

 

[Tenspro2002]

You're as bad at watching football as you are at watching basketball.

I was about 2 years ahead of the curve on KO, but sure.

 

[MilliniumPrince]

It's true, you can pick one side or the other.

I believe that Belichick is the greatest coach of all time and that Brady benefited immensely from it, much more than the other way around.

Different level, but Brady was something like 10 - 1 as a starter at Michighan. I despise the Pats, but the man just knows how to win. He could win in any offense with any coach.

 

[superjohn]

That team beat the Pats in the AFC title game.

Durrr, that's the point. By far the best team in the division outside of the Patriots the past 15+ years was led by the fat pantload and the butt fumbler.

 

[BugsyCT]

There's a difference between disrespecting a player/team and just simply being sick to death of seeing them win every single year.

 

[upstater]

Yup, that Jets team with the butt fumbler and Sexy Rexy was amazing, there has been so many great teams in that divison over the past 15+ years and the qb play has always been incredible.

Their record is better against other NFL teams during that span than against the AFCE.

So make fun of the Jets. The Patriots have lost to them 11 times since Brady joined the team.

These are facts.

Someone else brought up the tough AFC North. That division gets 2 easy wins a year against Cleveland!

This is what I wrote to Deepster who just recently made the same lame point you're making:

If Baltimore, Cincy and Pittsburgh are so tough, why are the Patriots 9-3, 7-2, 11-3 against them since Brady joined the team? 27-8!

I mean, the Patriots are better against Baltimore, Cincy and Pittsburgh than they are against the Jets, 27-11, and Miami, 23-13.

Winning % against top teams of the AFCN: 27-8 = 77%
Winning % against top teams of the AFCE: 50-24 = 67%

These numbers show how far out of their way people will go to make excuses about the Patriots winning.

 

[Waquoit]

Anyone else think the Jags made a mistake by sitting on the ball at the end of the 1st half. They had enough time and TO's to try for a FG. To be the man you have to beat the man, not turtle.

 

[upstater]

I didn't ask about numbers, I asked about SBs. Swap Brady's and Manning's coaches and Manning has more SBs than Brady, period.

Manning blew SBs against the Saints, he blew SBs against the Seahawks. Became small in the biggest moments, choked.

Brady meanwhile put the Patriots on his back against the Panthers, Seahawks and Falcons, and for that matter, the 2nd Giants SB too while the rest of the team crapped its pants. Belichick gets credit for the Rams and Eagles Super Bowls. 2 games which did not require superhuman efforts from Brady.

 

[superjohn]

Their record is better against other NFL teams during that span than against the AFCE.

So make fun of the Jets. The Patriots have lost to them 11 times since Brady joined the team.

These are facts.

Someone else brought up the tough AFC North. That division gets 2 easy wins a year against Cleveland!

This is what I wrote to Deepster who just recently made the same lame point you're making:

If Baltimore, Cincy and Pittsburgh are so tough, why are the Patriots 9-3, 7-2, 11-3 against them since Brady joined the team? 27-8!

I mean, the Patriots are better against Baltimore, Cincy and Pittsburgh than they are against the Jets, 27-11, and Miami, 23-13.

Winning % against top teams of the AFCN: 27-8 = 77%
Winning % against top teams of the AFCE: 50-24 = 67%

These numbers show how far out of their way people will go to make excuses about the Patriots winning.

Dude, no offense but you don't even know what decade it is.

 

[Tenspro2002]

Manning blew SBs against the Saints, he blew SBs against the Seahawks. Became small in the biggest moments, choked.

Brady meanwhile put the Patriots on his back against the Panthers, Seahawks and Falcons, and for that matter, the 2nd Giants SB too while the rest of the team crapped its pants. Belichick gets credit for the Rams and Eagles Super Bowls. 2 games which did not require superhuman efforts from Brady.

You want to talk about chokes: the Pats benefited from chokes by the Panthers (went for 2 twice, too early, when kicking PATs would have been the difference), Seahawks (goal line choke), and Falcons (the entire 4th quarter).

And NE scored 17 points against the Giants in SB46. How is that putting the team on his back?

 

[upstater]

You want to talk about chokes: the Pats benefited from chokes by the Panthers (went for 2 twice, too early, when kicking PATs would have been the difference), Seahawks (goal line choke), and Falcons (the entire 4th quarter).

And NE scored 17 points against the Giants in SB46. How is that putting the team on his back?

Because when he had the ball he moved the team, broke NFL record with 21 consecutive completions. The Giants had 2 long 10 minute drives. Look at TOP of that game. 2 drives alone comprised 1/3rd of the entire game.

What is your point about chokes? Brady threw for 350+ yards in those games. My point is that Brady doesn't choke. He shines during the most crucial moments.

 

[upstater]

Dude, no offense but you don't even know what decade it is.

That's your best answer? Patriots have been winning since 2001. They've been in the same division. Decade or 17 years, the numbers are the same.

 

[champs99and04]

You want to talk about chokes: the Pats benefited from chokes by the Panthers (went for 2 twice, too early, when kicking PATs would have been the difference), Seahawks (goal line choke), and Falcons (the entire 4th quarter).

And NE scored 17 points against the Giants in SB46. How is that putting the team on his back?

Come on. The bottom line is that they put themselves in position to benefit from variance every year. I don't think the '03 team is any better than the '07 team or the '11 team is any better than the '16 team. These games come down to one play.

Hopefully the Eagles will skull f them like they did the Vikings today.

 

[Mots010]

Rodgers inability to stay healthy is as much at fault as the coaching in Green Bay. He’s been injured down the stretch seemingly every year lately.

Brady’s ability to stay healthy is remarkable...to the point where there’s no precendence for it. He took a hit or two today that would have broke 5 bones in romo.

And why are people argueing Brady vs manning or division records? It’s all garbage and just gives upstater an opening for a 50 page thread.

 

[superjohn]

That's your best answer? Patriots have been winning since 2001. They've been in the same division. Decade or 17 years, the numbers are the same.

You're going on about the divisions when you already proved today you have no clue what the divisions are. The only other good team in the Patriots division over the past 15 plus years was the butt fumblers.

I'm not even trying to denigrate the Patriots on this but everyone knows how crappy the other teams in the division have been for a long time.

 

[Scoe]

Its

Manning blew SBs against the Saints, he blew SBs against the Seahawks. Became small in the biggest moments, choked.

Brady meanwhile put the Patriots on his back against the Panthers, Seahawks and Falcons, and for that matter, the 2nd Giants SB too while the rest of the team crapped its pants. Belichick gets credit for the Rams and Eagles Super Bowls. 2 games which did not require superhuman efforts from Brady.

Yep thats it you look how Manning crapped his pants against the Seahawks and then you see what Brady did against the Seahawks the next year.

 

[Mots010]

Its


Yep thats it you look how Manning crapped his pants against the Seahawks and then you see what Brady did against the Seahawks the next year.

Those were not the same Seahawks teams that the patriots and broncos teams played.

 

[superjohn]

Rodgers inability to stay healthy is as much at fault as the coaching in Green Bay. He’s been injured down the stretch seemingly every year lately.

Brady’s ability to stay healthy is remarkable...to the point where there’s no precendence for it. He took a hit or two today that would have broke 5 bones in romo.

And why are people argueing Brady vs manning or division records? It’s all garbage and just gives upstater an opening for a 50 page thread.

Probably gets his HGH from the same guy who gave him the hair transplant.

 

[Scoe]

You're going on about the divisions when you already proved today you have no clue what the divisions are. The only other good team in the Patriots division over the past 15 plus years was the butt fumblers.

I'm not even trying to denigrate the Patriots on this but everyone knows how crappy the other teams in the division have been for a long time.

The Pats in the AFC East is like the Uconn Women in the AAC, there is no competition, of course you can't fault the Pats and sure they would win any division in the NFL but the Jets, Bills, Dolphins every year get real.