OT: Tom Brady GOAT

[Tenspro2002]

Really, the interesting question to ponder here is what GOAT Belichick could have done with a more superior QB like either of the Manning brothers. 8 Super Bowl titles? 12? Frankly, it's a shame his genius was wasted on a system QB with such a blatant disrespect for the laws and integrity of the game.

One of the most interesting thought experiments in the Brady-Manning discussion is to switch their coaches and imagine what the results would have been?.

How many SBs does Peyton win with Belichick as his coach? 7? 8?
How many SBs does Brady win with Jim Mora, Tony Dungy, Jim Caldwell, John Fox, and Gary Kubiak? Maybe 1?

 

[Horatio]

 

[superjohn]

Memes are fun...

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

Love this thread. Finally, football season is here.

 

[CL82]

2nd in my class.

People just don’t wanna admit their piece of crap “hero” cheats

Uh, huh. And what exactly do you believe was the central issue of the 2nd Circuit appeal? Did the court decide that 'Brady was a cheater.' Just curious.

 

[FartMan69]

One of the most interesting thought experiments in the Brady-Manning discussion is to switch their coaches and imagine what the results would have been?.

How many SBs does Peyton win with Belichick as his coach? 7? 8?
How many SBs does Brady win with Jim Mora, Tony Dungy, Jim Caldwell, John Fox, and Gary Kubiak? Maybe 1?

It's funny because this is flipped when people try and say Belichick isn't the best ever. They say he hadn't won a thing until he had Brady at QB. Which as a HC is true.

 

[Horatio]

Why is Foles still in the game?

 

[Waquoit]

You know who cheated today? The Jags.
They cheated all of us Patriots haters on 3rd and 18 when they didn’t bring any pressure in Brady and let him stand in his nice safe happy zone until he threw a 20-yard pass .

They cheated on that deliberate dirty hit on Gronk, you mean.

 

[intlzncster]

One of the most interesting thought experiments in the Brady-Manning discussion is to switch their coaches and imagine what the results would have been?.
How many SBs does Peyton win with Belichick as his coach? 7? 8

Easily half as many as Brady. Sucked in the cold. Was not good in the playoffs.

 

[Tenspro2002]

Easily half as many as Brady. Sucked in the cold. Was not good in the playoffs.

With Belichick, all his playoff games are at home and it doesn't matter.

 

[superjohn]

One of the most interesting thought experiments in the Brady-Manning discussion is to switch their coaches and imagine what the results would have been?.

How many SBs does Peyton win with Belichick as his coach? 7? 8?
How many SBs does Brady win with Jim Mora, Tony Dungy, Jim Caldwell, John Fox, and Gary Kubiak? Maybe 1?

Forget about Manning, imagine if Rodgers had a real team.

 

[Tenspro2002]

It's funny because this is flipped when people try and say Belichick isn't the best ever. They say he hadn't won a thing until he had Brady at QB. Which as a HC is true.

It's true, you can pick one side or the other.

I believe that Belichick is the greatest coach of all time and that Brady benefited immensely from it, much more than the other way around.

 

[intlzncster]

With Belichick, all his playoff games are at home and it doesn't matter.

That means he's in New England. All of BB's team's and players are there.

And Peyton would still have to play in the games, most of which he lost at home in the first round (he's got the NFL record at doing that). By playing poorly and throwing to HOFers.

 

[intlzncster]

It's true, you can pick one side or the other.

I believe that Belichick is the greatest coach of all time and that Brady benefited immensely from it, much more than the other way around.

What your seeing is the confluenc of the GOAT Coach and the GOAT QB showing up at the same time. BB isn't out there making all those ridiculous throws in pressure situations, time after time after time.

 

[Tenspro2002]

That means he's in New England. All of BB's team's and players are there.

And Peyton would still have to play in the games, most of which he lost at home in the first round. By playing poorly and throwing to HOFers.

Eh, I think that had more to do with having a defensive mastermind on the other sideline and no help from his own coaches, than it did with the weather.

 

[upstater]

Mods, please move this to the Pro Sports board.

Oh come on, the Giants thread went 30 odd pages!

 

[Tenspro2002]

Forget about Manning, imagine if Rodgers had a real team.

It's really mind-blowing that GB hasn't even gone to a Super Bowl, nevermind won one, over the last 7 years. They really squandered Rodgers's prime.

Another way you can evaluate the importance of a QB vs. the coach/system is consider what happened in their absence.

2008 Pats without Brady: 11-5
2011 Colts without Manning: 2-14

The Packers have lost Rodgers for portions of seasons, but not whole seasons, but they have clearly been much worse without him.

 

[upstater]

Certainly helps your stats having played 100+ games against the shittiest division in the NFL the last 15+ years.

Take your 6 free wins, walk into playoffs with home field and a bye, and proceed to beat colts/steelers/jets in championship. Rinse and repeat every year.

Win 3 close ones on the leg of the most clutch kicker ever, lose 2x to the Giants, get absolutely gifted 2 by some of the worst coaching calls ever.

Peyton on that team would have put up the same/better.

Their record is better against teams outside the division.

That clutch kicker blew 2 easy FGs against the Panthers.

 

[upstater]

It's really mind-blowing that GB hasn't even gone to a Super Bowl, nevermind won one, over the last 7 years. They really squandered Rodgers's prime.

Another way you can evaluate the importance of a QB vs. the coach/system is consider what happened in their absence.

2008 Pats without Brady: 11-5
2011 Colts without Manning: 2-14

The Packers have lost Rodgers for portions of seasons, but not whole seasons, but they have clearly been much worse without him.

Patriots were 7 wins worse without Brady that year and against very easy competition compared to the previous year (10 playoff teams played in 2007, 3 in 2008).

Colts tanked with Painter at QB because they wanted Luck. When they replaced him with UConn's own, they won their final 2 games.

You're as bad at watching football as you are at watching basketball.

 

[RayIsTheGOAT]

Can people get their head of their asses and just respect the 17 year+ greatness and dominance of the New England Patriots.

Same goes for LeBron. I don't understand the disgust and grudges people hold for some of the great sports figures we will ever see. Especially LeBron and Tom Brady, two great role models and all time greats.

You don't have to like them. Just respect them. The vitriol is pathetic at this point.

 

[upstater]

One of the most interesting thought experiments in the Brady-Manning discussion is to switch their coaches and imagine what the results would have been?.

How many SBs does Peyton win with Belichick as his coach? 7? 8?
How many SBs does Brady win with Jim Mora, Tony Dungy, Jim Caldwell, John Fox, and Gary Kubiak? Maybe 1?

One of the most interesting thought experiments isn't even an experiment. What would have happened if Brady played 2/3rds of his career in domed stadiums like Manning did? Well, since Brady's #s are much better than Manning's domed #s, and passing stats for all domed QBs are much higher than for outdoor QBs (especially in the northeast and midwest), Brady's #s would have been stratospheric.

 

[upstater]

Can people get their head of their asses and just respect the 17 year+ greatness and dominance of the New England Patriots.

Same goes for LeBron. I don't understand the disgust and grudges people hold for some of the great sports figures we will ever see. Especially LeBron and Tom Brady, two great role models and all time greats.

You don't have to like them. Just respect them. The vitriol is pathetic at this point.

They are just bad fans.

I think Jeter was universally respected by New England fans.

 

[superjohn]

It's really mind-blowing that GB hasn't even gone to a Super Bowl, nevermind won one, over the last 7 years. They really squandered Rodgers's prime.

Another way you can evaluate the importance of a QB vs. the coach/system is consider what happened in their absence.

2008 Pats without Brady: 11-5
2011 Colts without Manning: 2-14

The Packers have lost Rodgers for portions of seasons, but not whole seasons, but they have clearly been much worse without him.

It's unreal that McCarthy is still there. Rodgers biggest offensive weapon is Jordy Nelson and the defense has always sucked. It's such a shame.

 

[superjohn]

Their record is better against teams outside the division.

That clutch kicker blew 2 easy FGs against the Panthers.

Yup, that Jets team with the butt fumbler and Sexy Rexy was amazing, there has been so many great teams in that divison over the past 15+ years and the qb play has always been incredible.

 

[Tenspro2002]

One of the most interesting thought experiments isn't even an experiment. What would have happened if Brady played 2/3rds of his career in domed stadiums like Manning did? Well, since Brady's #s are much better than Manning's domed #s, and passing stats for all domed QBs are much higher than for outdoor QBs (especially in the northeast and midwest), Brady's #s would have been stratospheric.

I didn't ask about numbers, I asked about SBs. Swap Brady's and Manning's coaches and Manning has more SBs than Brady, period.