OT: Tiger - Not only a cheat . . . . | Page 3 | The Boneyard

OT: Tiger - Not only a cheat . . . .

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Many years ago (as will become obvious), I marshalled at the pro-am Wednesday of the Greater Hartford Open. It was a 12-hour day, with little break, on a hot, late June day. I was exhausted by the end of it - all that time on your feet, lots of walking, lots of crowds. The best part of the day was the period when I was stationed on the tee at the driveable par-4 15th. This tee is set back a bit, so, the gallery isn't permitted right up to it. Between the relative privacy for the pros and the amatuers, and the relaxed nature of pro-am day, (and, if the pro was going to drive the green, a bit of a wait), there was a lot of relaxed, friendly conversation going on. Lots of discussion over who did/didn't do well at Foxwoods, where they ate dinner last night, lots of congrats for Corey Pavin as he came through (he'd just won at Shinnecock) - but, the best part was watching speed-skate Bonnie Blair play through in bright yellow shorts. Big surprise here - her legs were incredible, and she generated a LOT of power in her swing.
 
Icebear said:
It is quite possible that each is only speaking for their own part. In which case it still favors that Tiger wasn't lying nor was either marshall. Each marshall can only speak for what they were aware of.
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That is certainly a possibility.

Although one has to remember just because Tiger did not lie or cheat in this instance (assuming), that he has redeemed himself.
 
ericsandiego said:
Perfect example of my point. Thanks for helping me make it! And calling those who don't agree with you "naive" is also a perfect example of childishness directed at those who disagree with you. But hey, haters are gonna hate!
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As well they should. Plenty of reasons to be a "Tiger hater". People who are not "Tiger haters", really should be held in suspicion.
 
blackbird said:
On his wife. And I don't think you want the percentages on athletes who cheat on their wife. Yes, even in the upstanding (yet somehow racist and sexist) sport of golf.
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The point is Tiger has cheated and lied. Not that other athletes haven't. (we know they have).

blackbird said:
He's never cheated on the golf course. The proof is pretty clear, he explained his thought process. Had he not done so, he gets away with it. Which means Tiger didn't know he did anything wrong. (Hence, not cheating.)
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Well that is not true. We know he cheated on the Masters, he got caught. Hence why he was docked strokes. That is what is clear.
 
.-.
One of the marshals who said that they told Tiger nothing now says he had a earpiece and may not have heard
what other marshals said.

Tiger's private behavior regarding his family was hideous.
Now two marshals say he was told about Sergio's swing....and the one who made the harshest comments about lying now says he may have been mistaken. Draw your own conclusions....maybe the original accuser is now a Tiger enabler?

He took a wrong drop and was in the end rightfully penalized two shots. I have seen the rule book and I doubt that any pro player knows all the rules. I had thought the penalty for signing for a score lower than you had was immediate and 100% disqualification. I thought he would be out....no choice in the matter. I did not realize that 2 years ago a rule was instituted to give the rules committee flexibility
in that situation...a good rule imo...given the ability to have viewers call in possible violations after the round is over.
The committee was aware of the possible wrong drop when he was on 18...they should have [but did not] contacted him and told him not to sign the card until they talked to him. He would have gotten 2 shots...just what eventually happened.

Whether anybody hates Tiger or regards him as lowest of the low, if the original point is whether he lied about being told, the declarations by the marshals at this point. seem to indicate he wasn't.
 
Alydar said:
You'd be surprised. Most of these guys have been playing in marshaled tournaments since they were 12. There has always been an official around to explain rules. Good amateurs are far more knowledgeable about rules than tour pros. I am constantly annoyed watching on TV when a rather routine drop becomes a huge delay because the players are unsure of the rule and call for a rules official.
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Well that is true. From reffing soccer, it's surprising how many players, who've played for years have no idea about the rules. Same for coaches. Although I don't find ignorance an excuse. But that's me.

Alydar said:
But back a ways in this thread you agreed that the whole point was whether or not Tiger lied. Now we know that a marshal told Tiger that Sergio had hit and that yes indeed, a marshal has stated that he said exactly that to Tiger. The SI writer has "clarified" his article to say that Tiger did not lie.
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Yes, we have conflicting reports. And even if it turns out Tiger did not lie in this particular instance, that does not in any way redeem him.
 
pinotbear said:
- but, the best part was watching speed-skate Bonnie Blair play through in bright yellow shorts. Big surprise here - her legs were incredible, and she generated a LOT of power in her swing.
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I would love to have seen those legs.
 
meyers7 said:
That is certainly a possibility.

Although one has to remember just because Tiger did not lie or cheat in this instance (assuming), that he has redeemed himself.
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I absolutely agree with that. Always did.
 
I think the only solution is to execute Tiger next time he asks an for an opinion from a marshal. It is the only thing that makes sense.

#ThisThreadIsInsane
#WhyIShouldNeverVentureToTheWomensBoard
 
meyers7 said:
Well that is true. From reffing soccer, it's surprising how many players, who've played for years have no idea about the rules. Same for coaches. Although I don't find ignorance an excuse. But that's me.


Yes, we have conflicting reports. And even if it turns out Tiger did not lie in this particular instance, that does not in any way redeem him.
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redeem him from what? Cheating on his wife?

It's clear, my friend, that there would be nothing he could do to redeem himself from whatever it is you are holding against him.
 
.-.
doggydaddy said:
redeem him from what?
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From cheating, lying, being the @ss that he is.

doggydaddy said:
It's clear, my friend, that there would be nothing he could do to redeem himself from whatever it is you are holding against him.
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I'm sure he could if he tried. But I don't think it is in him to try. I don't think he thinks of himself as needing to be redeemed. He doesn't even realize how bad he is.

Really I'm not so much a "Tiger hater", don't care enough about him or the game. (won't call it a "sport") I would consider myself more of a "Tiger Apologist hater". Although it does give me great pleasure to see him lose.
 
Last night Tony Cornheiser said that one of the marshals (he named him) told woods that Garcia had hit - but that was after Woods had pulled a club. So its possible that all parties are telling the truth - as they see it.

My opinion of Tiger Woods' character was formed many years ago when he left Fuzzy Zoeller swinging in the breeze. His on and off course antics (tantrums, foul mouth, spitting . . . hookers and ) just serve to reinforce that opinion.
 
meyers7 said:
Ah you are incorrect. Not naive because you don't agree with me, naive because you think Tiger is an upstanding person. He's not, he's what is generally referred to as a douchbag, jerk, etc. And certainly lies and certainly cheats. Just the way it is.
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I never said Tiger was an upstanding person. I have no opinion on that matter since I don't follow him closely. But your behavior is like that of a 5 year old - childish. Apparently anyone who doesn't see it your way is "naive". Certainly not the worst thing I've been called, but it's certainly the sign of an immature person to name call when others disagree. I've noticed that's your M.O. on this board, tho, so I'm not surprised.
 
meyers7 said:
As well they should. Plenty of reasons to be a "Tiger hater". People who are not "Tiger haters", really should be held in suspicion.
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And people who post like you really should grow up. The petulant princess posts you've made are funny. Too bad, really.
 
.-.
boontonbomber said:
done that. now what?
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Nothing I guess. Seems as if we do no think alike.

Sincerely

An old, fat, dumb, deaf, ocular challenged, memory impaired man who has aged friends that are not so.

Oz
 
ericsandiego said:
I never said Tiger was an upstanding person. I have no opinion on that matter since I don't follow him closely. But your behavior is like that of a 5 year old - childish. Apparently anyone who doesn't see it your way is "naive". Certainly not the worst thing I've been called, but it's certainly the sign of an immature person to name call when others disagree. I've noticed that's your M.O. on this board, tho, so I'm not surprised.
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Well a couple things. I don't consider if someone is naive about something, letting them know as "name calling". It's just kind of a fact. If I used terms such as jerk, idiot, then yea I would consider that "name calling". I would also consider "childish" as "name calling". But I'm sure you don't consider yourself a "name caller". :rolleyes: Interesting bolded parts above, don't you think?

Do I find you "childish" or "immature"? No. Naive? Yes. I think we all are about somethings. This is your instance. And you are not alone, Tiger has fooled many people. I just choose to see through his facade. I didn't always. I was actually a pretty big Tiger fan at one time. I was naive. Not anymore. I also think you are frustrated that I have called you out on this. That's understandable.

Naive - Lacking worldly experience and understanding

It's not really a bad thing. Just rather where you are in life for this situation. Actually being naive about some things is a rather good thing. I myself am quite naive about a lot of things. I have no idea how to lander money, or how to set up an offshore account. Nor do I know much about drug use. But I don't consider that as a bad thing.

And again, it has nothing to do with "not seeing things my way". Rather not seeing things the way they are.

ericsandiego said:
And people who post like you really should grow up
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Nah, I'm already too grown up. Definitely don't want to become some old stick in the mud.

As John said, "growing up leads to growing old and then to dying, and dying to me doesn't sound like all that much fun".

Gotta be happy eric. You only get one life.
 
meyers7 said:
The point is Tiger has cheated and lied. Not that other athletes haven't. (we know they have).


Well that is not true. We know he cheated on the Masters, he got caught. Hence why he was docked strokes. That is what is clear.
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No, he didn't get caught. Someone phoned in thinking he had broken a rule. Golf officials thought otherwise and didn't even bring it to Tiger's attention.

Later, Tiger did interviews explaining his thought process, showing he likely broke the rule. If Tiger shuts his mouth, he gets away with it. So why would he open his mouth if he thought he didn't something wrong? Oh yea, he wouldn't.

That's not cheating, that's a mistake. He took his penalty. There was nothing sneaky about Tiger's decision. Nothing morally wrong with what he did. Nothing dishonest. His honesty was what got him caught. He just didn't know the rules.

This whole "Tiger's a cheat" thing likely comes from people who are so upset that Tiger's back. Deal with it. His reputation isn't tarnished, except by people who already hated him.
 
meyers7 said:
From cheating, lying, being the @ss that he is.


I'm sure he could if he tried. But I don't think it is in him to try. I don't think he thinks of himself as needing to be redeemed. He doesn't even realize how bad he is.

Really I'm not so much a "Tiger hater", don't care enough about him or the game. (won't call it a "sport") I would consider myself more of a "Tiger Apologist hater". Although it does give me great pleasure to see him lose.
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You hate him. It's ok to admit.

And for someone that doesn't care much for the "sport", you sure have a lot to say about it.
 
I watch pro athletes for their skills at sport. I don't know what they are like in their personal lives, don't really care and I don't make judgments based on media reports. I've been following pro golf for a long time and anyone who thinks Tiger's off-course behavior is unique are the true naïve ones. The difference was Tiger's dirty laundry was aired out in public. I had a friend who caddied on the tour for years. He made it clear to me that cheating on spouses is the primary off-course activity on tour. I have no clue as to the "moral values" of most pro athletes. I am not interested. Parents who want role models for their children should look into a mirror instead of leaving it to some fake media image manufactured to sell cars or insurance. And when that fake media image gets exposed as in Tiger's case I don't act shocked and outraged because I never bought the hype. I judge Tiger on his athleticism and as an entertainer. In both regards he is the tops. I leave the rest to those who read the scandal sheets.
 
blackbird said:
No, he didn't get caught. Someone phoned in thinking he had broken a rule. Golf officials thought otherwise and didn't even bring it to Tiger's attention.
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Ummmm, the guy calling in was correct, he did get caught. If he didn't do anything wrong and didn't get caught, they why was he penalized? Ignorance is no excuse (and probably unlikely anyway). And why lots of golf advocates and players (PGA or former PGA) thought he should DQ himself.

Not sure why some people have such a love affair with a lying, cheating, scumbag of a person???? I don't get it??
 
.-.
meyers7 said:
Not sure why some people have such a love affair with a lying, cheating, scumbag of a person???? I don't get it??
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When I "don't get it" I go back to my premises and the answer is usually that one or more of them were incorrect.
 
doggydaddy said:
You hate him. It's ok to admit.
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Nah, really it's more the Tiger Apologists/Fans. Not that I like him, I don't, love to see him lose, but that's more to piss off the Tiger Apologists/Fans than him personally.

doggydaddy said:
And for someone that doesn't care much for the "sport", you sure have a lot to say about it.
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Well I know quite a bit about most sports or games. It's the way I grew up. One of my passions. I don't particularly like or follow hockey either, but I'll still watch a game if it's on and I have nothing else to do (or I'm at someone's house and they are watching).
 
Alydar said:
I watch pro athletes for their skills at sport.
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I usually watch sports to cheer for or against players/teams. Sometimes just to watch skills, but not very often.

Alydar said:
I've been following pro golf for a long time and anyone who thinks Tiger's off-course behavior is unique are the true naïve ones.
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While true, not really relevant as to whether Tiger lies, cheats or is a jerk.

Alydar said:
II judge Tiger on his athleticism and as an entertainer. In both regards he is the tops.
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Agreed he is very, very good. One of the best ever, maybe THE best?? One reason I used to cheer for him. But now I want to see him fail miserably, just like a certain TN team.
 
Alydar said:
When I "don't get it" I go back to my premises and the answer is usually that one or more of them were incorrect.
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That would be the easy way. But I know better.
 
so now the Marshalls are a part of Tiger's circle... and clearing up their lies too. hate Tiger, hate Serena... do you hate Jordan also, how about Barry Bonds, Lance?
 
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