OT: Tiger - Not only a cheat . . . .

[vtcwbuff]

but he also lies!!! When Garcia was whining about Woods pulling a club while he was swinging, Woods responded that the marshals said it was OK because Garcia had already hit. Not so say the marshals that were with El Tigre.

“He didn’t ask us nothing, and we didn’t say nothing. We’re told not to talk to the players,”

Link

 

[blackbird]

First of all, Tiger said "Marshalls" it could be that this guy didn't hear Tiger ask. No, it has to be Tiger's lying.

Second of all, it's just ridiculous the amount of scrutiny Tiger gets. People even tried to make a story out of his "out of water" drop this time. Which ended up being ludicrous.

 

[UCONNfan1]

First of all, Tiger said "Marshalls" it could be that this guy didn't hear Tiger ask. No, it has to be Tiger's lying.

Second of all, it's just ridiculous the amount of scrutiny Tiger gets. People even tried to make a story out of his "out of water" drop this time. Which ended up being ludicrous.

Exactly. And like Tiger has any control over how the spectators gasp, or what not. Garcia is well known as a whiner and complainer. I'll just leave it at that.

 

[Goodgood]

Whatever. But blaming the Mashalls for not doing their jobs correctly while you screwed up is not right. Not to defend Garcia as a whiner but it did affect his shot since it landed some 40 yards right of the target and he was visibly bothered. It really didn't matter because Sergio put two balls in the water with a wedge while tied for the lead on the next to last hole the next day.

 

[ThisJustIn]

poor tiger. he's under so much scrutiny. whaaaaaa.

you reap what you sow... so to speak.

 

[Zorro]

And one more on the 18th. And with crowd noises coming from all over the course, and being a seasoned pro and all, souds to me like Mr. Garcia is just making excuses for a poor shot.

 

[Alydar]

So to whom does Tiger complain? The gallery has snapped cameras at least 100 times while he was swinging. He has lived with unruly crowds yelling while he swings for over a decade. I fail to see why Tiger is being blamed for the people in the crowd cheering when he pulled a club from his bag.

 

[pinotbear]

But, the issue, Alydar, isn't whether or not the crowd cheered - nobody denies that. The issue is, Tiger said that the marshalls gave him the "OK" to go into his shot preparation. They didn't. Tiger flat-out lied. He could have said, "hey, I thought Sergio had hit already", or something else - but, he specifically put the responsibility on the marshalls.

Tiger Woods is one of, if not, the greatest golfer in history. He is also, an extremely self-centered man, for whom, vows of matrimony, the rules of golf, and generally civility, are filtered through his self-interest. He's a magnificent golfer - but, a poor human being.

 

[Alydar]

Tiger said he looked at a marshal and pointed in Sergio's direction and that the marshal gave him a thumbs up that he had already hit. It's beyond reason that some feel he has a responsibility to know what his playing partners are doing before he reaches into his bag for a club. Should he stand like a statue in case a fan yells if he drinks from a water bottle? Sergio was being a jerk by complaining about Tiger and the TV people were all too eager to try and turn it into a mano a mano thing. They promoted Sergio as a Tiger killer 14 years ago but he spit the bit. Tiger's playing partners have always said he was a complete gentleman on the course while admitting that the huge galleries were distracting. There's nothing Tiger or anyone else can do about the gallery. There is an element that will always look to find fault with Tiger. And TV will be right there to fan the flames and cash in on the ensuing fire.

 

[pinotbear]

That's what Tiger said..but, we can't find the marshal to cooberate his tale. Of course, Tiger should have some awareness of what his playing partners are doing. I played in a casual 9-hole league for years, and I had awareness of what the other 3 guys & gals were doing - Tiger (and, his caddy) only have to keep half-an-eye on one other guy.

Sergio may well be a jerk and w whiner - but, again, that's NOT what is being disputed here. The networks may well be searching for a "Tiger killer", or mano - a -mano..but, again, that's NOT what is being discussed.

What is at issue, is, did a marshall give Tiger the "go ahead". Only Tiger seems to claim that is the case..

And, if necesssary, I'll research into your statement that his "playing partners have always said that he was a complete gentleman on the course". I suspect between the spitting, and swearing, that I could find at least one exception..even, if it's only Sergio himself.

 

[Alydar]

The thread presupposes that Tiger is a cheat and then calls him a liar. This is far from a non-biased OP. The following is simply not true.

"When Garcia was whining about Woods pulling a club while he was swinging, Woods responded that the marshals said it was OK because Garcia had already hit. Not so say the marshals that were with El Tigre. "
.
Sergio never saw what happened at Tiger's ball so his whinning was done without knowing what had happened. He didn't know that all Tiger did was pull a club from his bag, something that isn't expected to cause a gallery erupt. Sergio had no clue about whether Tiger had pulled a club or not. Tiger said he then (after pulling a club) gestured to one of the the marshals who gave him a thumbs up, because by then Sergio had hit. Anyone who thinks a player needs to wait for an opponent across the fairway to hit before taking out his club is simply wrong. Neither player could see the other and while it was unfortunate incident there was no fault with the players. If there is fault it lies with the gallery's lack of consideration, not with Tiger.

I have read all the tales of Tiger spitting. The funny thing is that since reading that I have watched and counted 11 occasions since last October of other players spitting on a green without reading one complaint. My contention is that as far as some fans are concerned there is one standard for Tiger and another for the rest of pro golf. I leave it to the readers to decide the motivation behind it.

 

[pap49cba]

Yeah, and Tiger also is the reason Sergio hit two balls in the water on 17 and one on 18. Give me a break.

NBC's side-by-side video showed the noise started well before Sergio started his backswing. Do you honestly think if he had striped his second onto the green he would have said jack? Do you honestly think he's never been in the middle of his backswing when the crowd on an adjacent hole erupts? S$$t happens. Deal with it and stop looking for excuses.

And trust me, I am NOT a Tiger fan but this is over the top.

 

[Wbbfan1]

When Tiger pulled his club, Sergio was not in his back swing as he claimed. He was standing over the ball getting ready for his shot when the crowd cheered. It also wasn't a situation that the crowd cheered and Sergio immediately started his swing. There was a delay between the two actions. He had every opportunity to back away from his ball to recompose himself if necessary. HE chose to hit the shot without backing away from the ball. As soon as he hit the shot which was bad he looked over towards where Tiger was to place blame on Tiger for his poor shot. The Gallery surrounding Tiger was 20-30 yards or further away from Sergio. Sergio has a history of blaming someone else, the weather, and/or the Golf Course for all his failures. IMHO Sergio was irritated that he was paired with Tiger and couldn't handle all the goes with being paired with Tiger.

 

[meyers7]

I agree Garcia is kinda whining, and he does tend to choke. And he did screw up royally in this tourney.

However, Tiger did lie, did cheat (not so much here but before) and basically is a jerk (on and off the course).

One reason it's really hard to follow golf, the crowds should be able to yell and scream all they want. These golfers need to man up, quite being such wusses.

 

[meyers7]

The thread presupposes that Tiger is a cheat and then calls him a liar.

Well probably because he did cheat and he did lie.

 

[herbiep]

but he also lies!!! When Garcia was whining about Woods pulling a club while he was swinging, Woods responded that the marshals said it was OK because Garcia had already hit. Not so say the marshals that were with El Tigre.

“He didn’t ask us nothing, and we didn’t say nothing. We’re told not to talk to the players,”

Link

first of all, intelligent marshall, didn't ask us "nothing", didn't say, "nothing". so much for english. Just like in politics, it depends on whose ox is being gored. For the Tiger haters, just something else to twist.

 

[phil sampieri]

but he also lies!!! When Garcia was whining about Woods pulling a club while he was swinging, Woods responded that the marshals said it was OK because Garcia had already hit. Not so say the marshals that were with El Tigre.

“He didn’t ask us nothing, and we didn’t say nothing. We’re told not to talk to the players,”

Link

Not a tiger fan but last nights news showed clearly that when tiger pulled out his 5 wood, Sergio was over the ball but not in his backswing. Pros often will even stop while in their backswing if they are distracted. Sergio is a head case and I feel sorry for him.

 

[herbiep]

Well probably because he did cheat and he did lie.

And you are obviously, judge and jury, and/or, a Tiger hater.

 

[meyers7]

And you are obviously, judge and jury, and/or, a Tiger hater.

Sure I don't like him. But that's pretty irrelevant to the point of him cheating and lying.

 

[Icebear]

Sure I don't like him. But that's pretty irrelevant to the point of him cheating and lying.

As said above there was clear video supporting Tiger's version over against Sergio's.

 

[meyers7]

As said above there was clear video supporting Tiger's version over against Sergio's.

Not talking about Sergio, talking about Tiger lying.

And that doesn't have anything to do with his cheating and lying at the Masters.

 

[pinotbear]

But, the point of the whole thread, from the very beginning is, did Tiger lie about the marshals?

It isn't about the timing of the swing, nor Garcia's whiny attitude, nor gallery behavior, nor anything else -despite many folks trying to take it down so many tangents.

Did Tiger lie when he said that the marshals gave him the OK to proceed?

 

[Icebear]

I have been very vocal about my negative feelings about Tiger. However, one marshall saying he didn't ask means nothing without more information. Did the Marshall not hear? Was it a different marshall who he asked? Given the rest of the video supports what Tiger said I give him the benefit of the doubt on the 'lie,' too.

 

[meyers7]

But, the point of the whole thread, from the very beginning is, did Tiger lie about the marshals?

It isn't about the timing of the swing, nor Garcia's whiny attitude, nor gallery behavior, nor anything else -despite many folks trying to take it down so many tangents.

Did Tiger lie when he said that the marshals gave him the OK to proceed?

Bingo!

 

[meyers7]

I have been very vocal about my negative feelings about Tiger. However, one marshall saying he didn't ask means nothing without more information. Did the Marshall not hear? Was it a different marshall who he asked? Given the rest of the video supports what Tiger said I give him the benefit of the doubt on the 'lie,' too.

Why would you give him the benefit of the doubt? He's lied before. And he had reason to lie. The Marshall, not so much.