OT: The Brow requests a trade

[intlzncster]

Ball, Ingraham, Kuz, and whatever picks you need to send. Keep the young role players and shooters. Keep Kuz if you can.

That's a pretty trash offer tho. Their next 5 1st rounders thrown in?

If they had a Top 3 in this year's draft, then OK.

 

[Lefty2one]

Tell that guard dominant theory to guys like Giannis. Many of the best players happen to be guards. But that doesn't mean that's the only way.

You realize Giannis is effectively MIL's point guard, right? Height is irrelevant. Giannis is a 6'11" guard/playmaker/PnR man. Anthony Davis is not.

Who was the last champion to have a dominant big man? MAYBE you can convince me of Duncan in '14 but that's a stretch. Besides that, you're going back eight years to Dirk. The game has changed too much.

 

[awfuldan]

Did you see him last night? Kid is unreal.

Also, the most underrated guy in the league right now is Jokic, IMO. He's easily the best passing big I've ever seen and should probably be starting in the all-star game over AD.

Interestingly, neither AD nor Jokic is starting in the All-Star game. It's Durant, Lebron, and Paul George for the Western frontcourt. I don't think I'd argue with any of those 5 guys being in there. Western conference is absolutely loaded.

 

[intlzncster]

Who was the last champion to have a dominant big man? MAYBE you can convince me of Duncan in '14 but that's a stretch. Besides that, you're going back eight years to Dirk. The game has changed too much.

Why is that a stretch? Duncan is essentially a prototypical post.

It's not just that the game has changed, though it has, It's that the crop of big men, and how they are developed, has changed imo. Nobody wants to play the old school NBA role. There's just so much less of them around, so of course it's less likely for one to be on a Championship team. For example, if you put Shaq in today's game, he'd get 40 a night against the slighter posts of today if he wanted.

Also, the teams that have won happen to be friggin loaded. I mean, you can't use the fact they didn't have a dominant post. It doesn't prove anything. Do you not think the Warriors would win it all with AD if they did not have KD?

 

[superjohn]

What I really love about him is that his highlights are so fun to watch. He's like the anti-Harden that way.

I wanted to see Doncic and Jokik on the same team. That would be some sick basketball.

You saw Jokic full court pass a little while back? Unreal.

Thanks. I hadn't even seen that one before. Best passing big man ever and best passer in the whole league now and no that's nor hyperbole. He leaves me shaking my head nightly, have to watch some of the stuff like 5 times to fully appreciate it.

 

[intlzncster]

Interestingly, neither AD nor Jokic is starting in the All-Star game. It's Durant, Lebron, and Paul George for the Western frontcourt. I don't think I'd argue with any of those 5 guys being in there. Western conference is absolutely loaded.

Selecting the starters isn't exactly a referendum on any one as a player of course.

 

[superjohn]

Interestingly, neither AD nor Jokic is starting in the All-Star game. It's Durant, Lebron, and Paul George for the Western frontcourt. I don't think I'd argue with any of those 5 guys being in there. Western conference is absolutely loaded.

My bad, I thought they gave the nod to Davis. I don't have a problem at all with PG getting it, he's having a great season and is their closer.

 

[Lefty2one]

Why is that a stretch? Duncan is essentially a prototypical post.

Because Duncan was 37 at the time and while still very good, I wouldn't consider him dominant during that postseason. It's not like he carried that Spurs team; it was so balanced and had phenomenal teamwork.

It's not just that the game has changed, though it has, It's that the crop of big men, and how they are developed, has changed imo. Nobody wants to play the old school NBA role. For example, if you put Shaq in today's game, he'd get 40 a night against soft posts if he wanted.

He might but his effectiveness would be limited in the playoffs when teams/defense got real and his team wouldn't win. This is Shaq we're talking about, whose team got swept out of the postseason six times during his career even with old school post-friendly rules. They'd throw a hybrid zone up all game, overload strongside pre-catch, and make entry passes impossible. If you want to stop someone from posting up today you can do it. You couldn't a dozen years ago (well, you could but defenses hadn't fully figured it out). Not to mention there'd be so much flopping. Or they'd go the complete opposite like teams did with Embiid last postseason and let him get his on the block while sticking to shooters since it meant Philly would be taking fewer threes - it was a trap and Philly fell for it. Shaq's team is scoring twos all game (while he bricks plenty of FT) while you're bombing threes at a standard modern NBA clip. Good luck winning that game.

Also, the teams that have won happen to be friggin loaded. I mean, you can't use the fact they didn't have a dominant post. It doesn't prove anything. Do you not think the Warriors would win it all with AD if they did not have KD?

I wouldn't call the Spurs or Mavs absolutely loaded. Nor Cleveland, really. It's more about how offense is run: perimeter-centric vs an inside-out big man offense.

 

[Walker11]

Chris Haynes is reporting that the Celtics aren't one of Davis's desired destinations because of growing buzz that Kyrie doesn't return. We have a long way to go but he is a good reporter.

 

[mrl2016]

Because Duncan was 37 at the time and while still very good, I wouldn't consider him dominant during that postseason. It's not like he carried that Spurs team; it was so balanced and had phenomenal teamwork.



He might but his effectiveness would be limited in the playoffs when teams/defense got real and his team wouldn't win. This is Shaq we're talking about, whose team got swept out of the postseason six times during his career even with old school post-friendly rules. They'd throw a hybrid zone up all game, overload strongside pre-catch, and make entry passes impossible. If you want to stop someone from posting up today you can do it. You couldn't a dozen years ago (well, you could but defenses hadn't fully figured it out). Not to mention there'd be so much flopping. Or they'd go the complete opposite like teams did with Embiid last postseason and let him get his on the block while sticking to shooters since it meant Philly would be taking fewer threes - it was a trap and Philly fell for it. Shaq's team is scoring twos all game (while he bricks plenty of FT) while you're bombing threes at a standard modern NBA clip. Good luck winning that game.



I wouldn't call the Spurs or Mavs absolutely loaded. Nor Cleveland, really. It's more about how offense is run: perimeter-centric vs an inside-out big man offense.

Just to build off this Kawhi and Tony Parker averaged more ppg that Duncan did that year. Not saying that Duncan didn't play good defend or rebound, just saying that was a roster that had 5 guys averaging double figures per game.

Kawhi, Tony Parker, Tim Duncan, Danny Green, Manu Ganobli. That was a really well balanced team rather Tim Duncan being the one to lead them to a title

 

[Lefty2one]

We've got a repeat of the Paul George situation but amped up a notch: AD wants no part of Boston. If public trade talks emerge and seem serious between NO and Boston his agent will state that it'll only be a rental; AD will not re-sign with Boston next summer. He's going to be a Laker.

I have a childhood friend who is pretty high up in the industry. Well-connected. Agents, media, etc. He doesn't hit me up often with this kind of stuff because knows a lot of rumors are bogus. He texted me this morning.

Chris Haynes is reporting that the Celtics aren't one of Davis's desired destinations because of growing buzz that Kyrie doesn't return. We have a long way to go but he is a good reporter.

My boy doesn't mess around...

 

[superjohn]

Chris Haynes is reporting that the Celtics aren't one of Davis's desired destinations because of growing buzz that Kyrie doesn't return. We have a long way to go but he is a good reporter.

I'm starting to wonder a little about the Celtics.

They stockpiled so many draft picks and have assembled a really talented young team but they are still pretty much superstar less in a superstar league. If they aren't able to swing an AD deal they still just look like a damn good team that isn't really a contender. Not sure on how many first rounders they still have for the next couple of years and even though they are really young Horford really isn't and a lot of what they do revolves around him. You have to wonder about Hayward.

 

[Lefty2one]

^^ That is what makes the NBA so brutal from a 10,000 ft view. You can do damn near everything right for a 6-7 year stretch and you still aren't that close to winning a championship.

 

[intlzncster]

I'm starting to wonder a little about the Celtics.

They stockpiled so many draft picks and have assembled a really talented young team but they are still pretty much superstar less in a superstar league. If they aren't able to swing an AD deal they still just look like a damn good team that isn't really a contender. Not sure on how many first rounders they still have for the next couple of years and even though they are really young Horford really isn't and a lot of what they do revolves around him. You have to wonder about Hayward.

You don't consider Kyrie on that level?

 

[intlzncster]

I would say the Celtics are out for AD right now. I think that was evident for everybody, given that Danny couldn't do anything until the summer.

But, the Pelicans don't have to do anything now. They don't owe him anything. They can wait. Might as well wait to try and maximize their return no? More interested clubs, the better.

If the C's then sign Kyrie, that might change AD's opinion.

 

[the Q]

^^ That is what makes the NBA so brutal from a 10,000 ft view. You can do damn near everything right for a 6-7 year stretch and you still aren't that close to winning a championship.

And you can suck just the eight year, and get lucky. Like bron to cle.

Or even Andrew luck to the colts. It’s why drafts are dumb

 

[superjohn]

You don't consider Kyrie on that level?

Kyrie is weird or maybe my view on him is. He's an awesome offensive talent and one of the best guard finishers I've ever seen around the rim. Don't know why but I feel like there is something missing from putting him with the other superstars. Just not sure you can ever win it all with him as your #1.

 

[superjohn]

And you can suck just the eight year, and get lucky. Like bron to cle.

Or even Andrew luck to the colts. It’s why drafts are dumb

I really want the Knicks or Bulls to get the #1 which means the Cavs will get it again.

 

[BostonFan]

Lakers don't have enough & the owner will not send him to Lakers with 1.5 years left just out of spite. C's probably get him this summer, but it will cost them both Brown, Tatum & picks.

 

[Mano]

Hopefully he does land in LA just so that with Ball going in the other direction we can get an all time tantrum out of Daddy Ball.

 

[BostonFan]

Lonzo is a bust. That's all on Magic. He has very little trade value, so it hurts LA in many ways.

 

[Walker11]

Chris Haynes is reporting that the Celtics aren't one of Davis's desired destinations because of growing buzz that Kyrie doesn't return. We have a long way to go but he is a good reporter.

And now Windhorst and Aldridge report contrary. Probably best to tune into this drama in July.

 

[methodology]

And now Windhorst and Aldridge report contrary. Probably best to tune into this drama in July.

Damage control because without celtics involved other teams know they won't have to offer the moon.

 

[Matrim55]

Ok, I've really talked myself into the Knicks having the best package to offer – contingent upon them doing some pre-agency negotiation w/ KD (who is a free agent, and there's no way he's going back to GSW).

• Kristaps
• Knox
• Trier
• Lee (more on him in a minute)
• 2019 1st (top 3 guaranteed at the moment)

That trumps anything the Lakers or even the Celtics could offer, largely because Porzingis is better than any of the available players on their rosters, partially because Knox, Trier & the 2019 pick are all young players with upside, and partially because Lee actually gives the Pels flexibility to go get a second-level star who wants out.

As it stands, New Orleans have two significant expirings on next year's roster in Solomon Hill ($13.3m) and E'Twuan Moore (8.7m, but I think he'll be traded in the next week). Getting Lee would give them flexibility and the chance to match numbers for any team who wants to get rid of a big contract.

They need to do something like this because they're absolutely not going to get any high-level player in free agency, and if things go right they'll be too good to get a top pick w/ their own. But having $25m of expirings and a couple of good young players would put them in the mix for guys like Wiggins or Otto Porter.

If I was NOP I would absolutely tell the Knicks and Celtics to sit tight and refuse to deal with the Lakers until the summer. I hope that's what happens.

 

[Matrim55]

And right on cue...