OT: The Brow requests a trade | Page 3 | The Boneyard

OT: The Brow requests a trade

methodology said:
He's not going to be the man in Boston. Tatum's emergence and then if they get AD.

If he wants to win he's gonna have to be Robin on any team that has that chance
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I love Tatum but he's going to have to make a couple huge steps to get to Kyrie's level.

AD is a better player than Kyrie but he's not an alpha. LeBron is an alpha. Harden's an alpha. AD will enjoy being 1B, like Durant.
 
intlzncster said:
You realize how much better AD is than George, Cousins, Butler? An order of magnitude. He's a generational player. A franchise altering player.
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Is he though? The NBA is so guard-friendly that this guy can't even get out of the second round. He's won one playoff series in his career. The Pelicans are 13th in the West right now. He's in his seventh season; at some point we need to see some results. I know his supporting cast hasn't been great but it's a statement on today's league. LeBron goes to another team and they're immediately one of the best teams in the league. That simply isn't the case for big men anymore, even someone as individually as great as Davis. It's not the 1980s or 1990s; having a great big man guarantees nothing. The Knicks make a deal like that and I'm not sure they're even making the playoffs: what's different between this hypothetical situation and what he's been through in New Orleans?
 
Lefty2one said:
As an aside, I don't know if it's the Bill Simmons effect or overreacting to one postseason but there hasn't been a more overrated young player in the last decade than Tatum. Look, he's good. Way too many people act like he's the next KD. Boston isn't going anywhere if he's their top player. I'm not sold on him ever being better than Kyrie.
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Kid has played 1.5 years of ball. With a difficult integration of ball hungry guys into the team this season. It sounds like you are overreacting to the present. selling low. He has pretty significant upside from here. But needs time. He's only 21.

You need more than one guy anchoring a team these days. 3 studs is the norm.

UofCT2009 said:
Spot on. I'll repeat my previous post. There is a Tatum in every draft. Would the Mavs trade Doncic for Tatum? F NO.
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Sure, one maybe. Two at most. Odds of getting him are low.
 
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superjohn said:
Tatum isn't even close to Doncic. Luka is basically already a superstar, he's going to be one of the handful of best players in the league.
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Yeah, that isn't even a fair comparison. Doncic has only scratched the surface. Kid's 20. And played half an NBA season. He's got a limitless future.
 
intlzncster said:
Kid has played 1.5 years of ball. With a difficult integration of ball hungry guys into the team this season. It sounds like you are overreacting to the present. selling low. He has pretty significant upside from here. But needs time.

You need more than one guy anchoring a team these days. 3 studs is the norm.
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I was saying the same stuff last postseason when people were going nuts over him. Pump the brakes.

I'm not disagreeing with any of what you said but plenty of people out there think he's the next Durant or the second-best young player in the league after Luka. He's not that. He's maybe your #2 on a championship team but probably #3. Even in this thread Celtic fans think he's their franchise cornerstone and #1.
 
Lefty2one said:
Is he though? The NBA is so guard-friendly that this guy can't even get out of the second round. He's won one playoff series in his career. The Pelicans are 13th in the West right now. He's in his seventh season; at some point we need to see some results. I know his supporting cast hasn't been great but it's a statement on today's league. LeBron goes to another team and they're immediately one of the best teams in the league. That simply isn't the case for big men anymore, even someone as individually as great as Davis. It's not the 1980s or 1990s; having a great big man guarantees nothing. The Knicks make a deal like that and I'm not sure they're even making the playoffs: what's different between this hypothetical situation and what he's been through in New Orleans?
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LeBron is more than a generational player. He's a basketball god. Only mentioned with one or two other players in history.

Tell that guard dominant theory to guys like Giannis. Many of the best players happen to be guards. But that doesn't mean that's the only way.

It's more a reflection on the current state of bigs imo. How they are developing at the AAU and college level has a lot to do with it.
 
Lefty2one said:
I was saying the same stuff last postseason when people were going nuts over him. Pump the brakes.

I'm not disagreeing with any of what you said but plenty of people out there think he's the next Durant or the second-best young player in the league after Luka. He's not that. He's maybe your #2 on a championship team but probably #3. Even in this thread Celtic fans think he's their franchise cornerstone and #1.
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Again, that's not a fair comp. A top 2 player in the league. Historically great player.

Everybody jumps the gun with excitement, especially fans of the player's particular team. That's normal. He's got a very bright future, but no, he's not LeBron. He's not KD. He's not Curry. et al

We don't know his ceiling imo. But I don't think it's a #1, if we are talking the Top 5-7 guys in the league. I don't know where he'll end up yet.
 
intlzncster said:
Yeah, that isn't even a fair comparison. Doncic has only scratched the surface. Kid's 20. And played half an NBA season. He's got a limitless future.
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Did you see him last night? Kid is unreal.

Also, the most underrated guy in the league right now is Jokic, IMO. He's easily the best passing big I've ever seen and should probably be starting in the all-star game over AD.
 
Ball, Ingraham, Kuz, and whatever picks you need to send. Keep the young role players and shooters. Keep Kuz if you can.
 
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Rocktheworld said:
Ball, Ingraham, Kuz, and whatever picks you need to send. Keep the young role players and shooters. Keep Kuz if you can.
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I agree that hart is too perfect a fit.
 
I just don't see the Pelicans rushing this. They have the rest of this year, next summer, and even next season before trade deadline to get the best possible deal.

However, if it were to happen this season I bet Pelicans want to include their awful contracts in this trade like the 80 million they owe Jrue Holiday, or the 13 million they owe Solomon Hill. I'd imagine they would need a 3rd team to take on these contracts as well which brings me to the perfect trade to happen.

See Here - NBA Trade Machine - ESPN

Edit: Trade machine not loading - i'm sure it crashed.

Pelicans get: 36 Million in expiring contracts from Indiana (Tyreke Evans, Bogdanovich, and Thad Young), 3 young players to build around from Lakers (Ingram, Hart, and Kuzma), and I'd imagine a combination of picks from LA.

Lakers get: AD

Pacers Get: A very good Jrue Holiday to play alongside Oladipo for the next few years, the older brother of future starting PG Aaron Holiday, and the one guy who every Indiana fan loves in Lance. KCP would help clog the hole at 2-guard until next season.
 
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superjohn said:
Did you see him last night? Kid is unreal.

Also, the most underrated guy in the league right now is Jokic, IMO. He's easily the best passing big I've ever seen and should probably be starting in the all-star game over AD.
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What I really love about him is that his highlights are so fun to watch. He's like the anti-Harden that way.

I wanted to see Doncic and Jokik on the same team. That would be some sick basketball.

You saw Jokic full court pass a little while back? Unreal.

 
Rocktheworld said:
Ball, Ingraham, Kuz, and whatever picks you need to send. Keep the young role players and shooters. Keep Kuz if you can.
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That's a pretty trash offer tho. Their next 5 1st rounders thrown in?

If they had a Top 3 in this year's draft, then OK.
 
intlzncster said:
Tell that guard dominant theory to guys like Giannis. Many of the best players happen to be guards. But that doesn't mean that's the only way.
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You realize Giannis is effectively MIL's point guard, right? Height is irrelevant. Giannis is a 6'11" guard/playmaker/PnR man. Anthony Davis is not.

Who was the last champion to have a dominant big man? MAYBE you can convince me of Duncan in '14 but that's a stretch. Besides that, you're going back eight years to Dirk. The game has changed too much.
 
superjohn said:
Did you see him last night? Kid is unreal.

Also, the most underrated guy in the league right now is Jokic, IMO. He's easily the best passing big I've ever seen and should probably be starting in the all-star game over AD.
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Interestingly, neither AD nor Jokic is starting in the All-Star game. It's Durant, Lebron, and Paul George for the Western frontcourt. I don't think I'd argue with any of those 5 guys being in there. Western conference is absolutely loaded.
 
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Lefty2one said:
Who was the last champion to have a dominant big man? MAYBE you can convince me of Duncan in '14 but that's a stretch. Besides that, you're going back eight years to Dirk. The game has changed too much.
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Why is that a stretch? Duncan is essentially a prototypical post.

It's not just that the game has changed, though it has, It's that the crop of big men, and how they are developed, has changed imo. Nobody wants to play the old school NBA role. There's just so much less of them around, so of course it's less likely for one to be on a Championship team. For example, if you put Shaq in today's game, he'd get 40 a night against the slighter posts of today if he wanted.

Also, the teams that have won happen to be friggin loaded. I mean, you can't use the fact they didn't have a dominant post. It doesn't prove anything. Do you not think the Warriors would win it all with AD if they did not have KD?
 
intlzncster said:
What I really love about him is that his highlights are so fun to watch. He's like the anti-Harden that way.

I wanted to see Doncic and Jokik on the same team. That would be some sick basketball.

You saw Jokic full court pass a little while back? Unreal.

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Thanks. I hadn't even seen that one before. Best passing big man ever and best passer in the whole league now and no that's nor hyperbole. He leaves me shaking my head nightly, have to watch some of the stuff like 5 times to fully appreciate it.
 
awfuldan said:
Interestingly, neither AD nor Jokic is starting in the All-Star game. It's Durant, Lebron, and Paul George for the Western frontcourt. I don't think I'd argue with any of those 5 guys being in there. Western conference is absolutely loaded.
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Selecting the starters isn't exactly a referendum on any one as a player of course.
 
awfuldan said:
Interestingly, neither AD nor Jokic is starting in the All-Star game. It's Durant, Lebron, and Paul George for the Western frontcourt. I don't think I'd argue with any of those 5 guys being in there. Western conference is absolutely loaded.
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My bad, I thought they gave the nod to Davis. I don't have a problem at all with PG getting it, he's having a great season and is their closer.
 
intlzncster said:
Why is that a stretch? Duncan is essentially a prototypical post.
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Because Duncan was 37 at the time and while still very good, I wouldn't consider him dominant during that postseason. It's not like he carried that Spurs team; it was so balanced and had phenomenal teamwork.

It's not just that the game has changed, though it has, It's that the crop of big men, and how they are developed, has changed imo. Nobody wants to play the old school NBA role. For example, if you put Shaq in today's game, he'd get 40 a night against soft posts if he wanted.
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He might but his effectiveness would be limited in the playoffs when teams/defense got real and his team wouldn't win. This is Shaq we're talking about, whose team got swept out of the postseason six times during his career even with old school post-friendly rules. They'd throw a hybrid zone up all game, overload strongside pre-catch, and make entry passes impossible. If you want to stop someone from posting up today you can do it. You couldn't a dozen years ago (well, you could but defenses hadn't fully figured it out). Not to mention there'd be so much flopping. Or they'd go the complete opposite like teams did with Embiid last postseason and let him get his on the block while sticking to shooters since it meant Philly would be taking fewer threes - it was a trap and Philly fell for it. Shaq's team is scoring twos all game (while he bricks plenty of FT) while you're bombing threes at a standard modern NBA clip. Good luck winning that game.

Also, the teams that have won happen to be friggin loaded. I mean, you can't use the fact they didn't have a dominant post. It doesn't prove anything. Do you not think the Warriors would win it all with AD if they did not have KD?
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I wouldn't call the Spurs or Mavs absolutely loaded. Nor Cleveland, really. It's more about how offense is run: perimeter-centric vs an inside-out big man offense.
 
Chris Haynes is reporting that the Celtics aren't one of Davis's desired destinations because of growing buzz that Kyrie doesn't return. We have a long way to go but he is a good reporter.
 
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Lefty2one said:
Because Duncan was 37 at the time and while still very good, I wouldn't consider him dominant during that postseason. It's not like he carried that Spurs team; it was so balanced and had phenomenal teamwork.



He might but his effectiveness would be limited in the playoffs when teams/defense got real and his team wouldn't win. This is Shaq we're talking about, whose team got swept out of the postseason six times during his career even with old school post-friendly rules. They'd throw a hybrid zone up all game, overload strongside pre-catch, and make entry passes impossible. If you want to stop someone from posting up today you can do it. You couldn't a dozen years ago (well, you could but defenses hadn't fully figured it out). Not to mention there'd be so much flopping. Or they'd go the complete opposite like teams did with Embiid last postseason and let him get his on the block while sticking to shooters since it meant Philly would be taking fewer threes - it was a trap and Philly fell for it. Shaq's team is scoring twos all game (while he bricks plenty of FT) while you're bombing threes at a standard modern NBA clip. Good luck winning that game.



I wouldn't call the Spurs or Mavs absolutely loaded. Nor Cleveland, really. It's more about how offense is run: perimeter-centric vs an inside-out big man offense.
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Just to build off this Kawhi and Tony Parker averaged more ppg that Duncan did that year. Not saying that Duncan didn't play good defend or rebound, just saying that was a roster that had 5 guys averaging double figures per game.

Kawhi, Tony Parker, Tim Duncan, Danny Green, Manu Ganobli. That was a really well balanced team rather Tim Duncan being the one to lead them to a title
 
Lefty2one said:
We've got a repeat of the Paul George situation but amped up a notch: AD wants no part of Boston. If public trade talks emerge and seem serious between NO and Boston his agent will state that it'll only be a rental; AD will not re-sign with Boston next summer. He's going to be a Laker.

I have a childhood friend who is pretty high up in the industry. Well-connected. Agents, media, etc. He doesn't hit me up often with this kind of stuff because knows a lot of rumors are bogus. He texted me this morning.
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Walker11 said:
Chris Haynes is reporting that the Celtics aren't one of Davis's desired destinations because of growing buzz that Kyrie doesn't return. We have a long way to go but he is a good reporter.
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My boy doesn't mess around...

fBhO91T.jpg
 
Walker11 said:
Chris Haynes is reporting that the Celtics aren't one of Davis's desired destinations because of growing buzz that Kyrie doesn't return. We have a long way to go but he is a good reporter.
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I'm starting to wonder a little about the Celtics.

They stockpiled so many draft picks and have assembled a really talented young team but they are still pretty much superstar less in a superstar league. If they aren't able to swing an AD deal they still just look like a damn good team that isn't really a contender. Not sure on how many first rounders they still have for the next couple of years and even though they are really young Horford really isn't and a lot of what they do revolves around him. You have to wonder about Hayward.
 
^^ That is what makes the NBA so brutal from a 10,000 ft view. You can do damn near everything right for a 6-7 year stretch and you still aren't that close to winning a championship.
 
superjohn said:
I'm starting to wonder a little about the Celtics.

They stockpiled so many draft picks and have assembled a really talented young team but they are still pretty much superstar less in a superstar league. If they aren't able to swing an AD deal they still just look like a damn good team that isn't really a contender. Not sure on how many first rounders they still have for the next couple of years and even though they are really young Horford really isn't and a lot of what they do revolves around him. You have to wonder about Hayward.
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You don't consider Kyrie on that level?
 
I would say the Celtics are out for AD right now. I think that was evident for everybody, given that Danny couldn't do anything until the summer.

But, the Pelicans don't have to do anything now. They don't owe him anything. They can wait. Might as well wait to try and maximize their return no? More interested clubs, the better.

If the C's then sign Kyrie, that might change AD's opinion.
 
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