OT Showtime Lakers vs this years Warriors, is Magic right? | Page 2 | The Boneyard

OT Showtime Lakers vs this years Warriors, is Magic right?

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You know more than me so I will read and learn. You make solid arguments no doubt but I will disagree, not emphatically though, with a few still. But all good. IQ is not up no matter what stats you would like to throw at me but you do a nice job of making me think about it;)
 
auror said:
IMO, Game 6 showed how you can't beat the Warriors if they are hot, doesn't matter who you are or if the game is at home.
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While this is true, many, many other points during the OKC series showed how GS's tendency to take quarters off, possessions off, make bad decisions in some key spots of the game, and have mental lapses would be their death knell. Jackson had that team operating like a machine. They took no time off, understood how to pounce on every single opportunity presented, and would in all likelihood make GS pay for all of those times they screw up to the point that they'd have to be hitting 17 3s to remain in the game. That plus KD and Westbrook's down the stretch decision-making in games 5 and 6 were so awful that if you substitute in the greatest down the stretch duo of all time, GS wouldn't be able to rely on some wild Westbrook drive and chuck or KD post up and heave.
 
i find these arguments comparing a team from 30 years to one playing now to be impractical. It was a completely different game with different rules. Also, in sports, evolution/rise of technology is wildly apparent, athletes are simply better today than they were years ago. As @auror noted no team ever could stop GSW if they get hot, they give 'getting hot' a new meaning. And eventually, they will get hot in a 7 game series. Back to back titles with the greatest regular season of all time, this team is ridiculous.
 
brasssbonanzaa said:
While this is true, many, many other points during the OKC series showed how GS's tendency to take quarters off, possessions off, make bad decisions in some key spots of the game, and have mental lapses would be their death knell. Jackson had that team operating like a machine. They took no time off, understood how to pounce on every single opportunity presented, and would in all likelihood make GS pay for all of those times they screw up to the point that they'd have to be hitting 17 3s to remain in the game. That plus KD and Westbrook's down the stretch decision-making in games 5 and 6 were so awful that if you substitute in the greatest down the stretch duo of all time, GS wouldn't be able to rely on some wild Westbrook drive and chuck or KD post up and heave.
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I believe you're overselling GSW taking plays off and underselling the impact of variance from shot-making on scorelines, ie it appears they're mentally out of it when in reality they're just missing shots and that leads to OKC transition opportunities, etc. Their turnovers per 100 poss were down in the conf finals from the regular season, for example, and essentially identical to the Bulls' playoff TOs/100 during the '97 year (farthest back NBA.com/stats goes back). It goes without saying that taking a lot of 3's increases that variance.
 
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Chin Diesel said:
Magic is generally listed no worse than 5-8 all-time, some put in the top 4. And I really think he is underrated.
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He may not be Jordan (the best to me) but he is in Jordan's category, along with perhaps 5 others. In their primes if you had to pick teams and Jordan was selected number one and the other team got Magic, no one would be disappointed. Prime Kobe is another great and also no disappointment as a 2nd pick either, and he too is in Jordan's category.

Just saying that its a compliment to be in Jordan's world. Lebron is slowly moving the other direction. He won't (or can't?) take over games like the three named above.
 
Could we put away the better athletes today nonsense? I highly doubt todays game would be too athletic for Magic,jordan,Zeke,Kareem etc. etc.
 
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Alright lets do a best of 7 series on whatifsports which Lakers team should I match up against these Warriors.
 
caw said:
I think it depends on the situation entirely. Either team dropped into the others age and told to play the next week would likely lose because of the rule changes. I can't imagine all the fouls the Bulls would be called for and how the zone rules would make things difficult for them. In the reverse, the Warriors would be whining for all the uncalled fouls and the inability to basically zone with Rodmans man.

Assuming you give each team a year to adjust to the new era, I'd take the Bulls but it would be a toss up. I just take the Bulls because I trust Jordan to close the game over Curry by a hair.

Curry and Klay with a 22 foot line would be sick, not to mention Green and their other shooters. The offense would be lethal if given time to adjust to the way things are (not) called. Their defense would take a hit though without being able to play with the current NBA zone rules and without those, I'm not sure they could stop Jordan in the post (that is the one place where he is a million times better than Lebron). Either way it would be a good series.

Bringing the Bulls to 2015 and giving them a year to adjust and I think their defense would be even better than it was in 96, and easily the best in the NBA this year. IMO they are built for this era of switching and pick and roll defense. They potentially have a better version of the Warriors death lineup with Jordan, Pippen, Harper and Rodman and Kerr. The Warriors death lineup would meet its match. True you don't have to defend Rodman in the traditional sense but you also can't leave him because of his rebounding ability. However, the Bulls offense would be considerably hindered by the three point line being back to what it is. The question is whether the D makes up for the O and if the Bulls can integrate a fantastic three point shooter into the offense to open everything up inside with Steve Kerr and he would be lethal in this era mainly because he would be more of an offensive focus. Just my opinion but I think he gives the Bulls the edge bc he allows them to adjust to the new way of play.
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Ill do a best of 7 series right now 2016 GSW vs 96 Bulls 2-2-1-1-1 format GS gets the homecourt due to a better record
 
caw said:
I think it depends on the situation entirely. Either team dropped into the others age and told to play the next week would likely lose because of the rule changes. I can't imagine all the fouls the Bulls would be called for and how the zone rules would make things difficult for them. In the reverse, the Warriors would be whining for all the uncalled fouls and the inability to basically zone with Rodmans man.

Assuming you give each team a year to adjust to the new era, I'd take the Bulls but it would be a toss up. I just take the Bulls because I trust Jordan to close the game over Curry by a hair.

Curry and Klay with a 22 foot line would be sick, not to mention Green and their other shooters. The offense would be lethal if given time to adjust to the way things are (not) called. Their defense would take a hit though without being able to play with the current NBA zone rules and without those, I'm not sure they could stop Jordan in the post (that is the one place where he is a million times better than Lebron). Either way it would be a good series.

Bringing the Bulls to 2015 and giving them a year to adjust and I think their defense would be even better than it was in 96, and easily the best in the NBA this year. IMO they are built for this era of switching and pick and roll defense. They potentially have a better version of the Warriors death lineup with Jordan, Pippen, Harper and Rodman and Kerr. The Warriors death lineup would meet its match. True you don't have to defend Rodman in the traditional sense but you also can't leave him because of his rebounding ability. However, the Bulls offense would be considerably hindered by the three point line being back to what it is. The question is whether the D makes up for the O and if the Bulls can integrate a fantastic three point shooter into the offense to open everything up inside with Steve Kerr and he would be lethal in this era mainly because he would be more of an offensive focus. Just my opinion but I think he gives the Bulls the edge bc he allows them to adjust to the new way of play.
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Game 1 @ Oracle
112-103 GS 1-0 GS
stats- MJ 40 pts, 25, 10 and 6 Curry 28 pts, Green 25, 7 and 8 with 5 blks Thompson 16 Barnes 23

Game 2 @ Oracle 2-0 GS
98-84 GS
stats- MJ 26, Curry 17, 13 and 8 Green 10 pts, Thompson 17, Iguodala 14, Livingston 10, Ezelie 8

Game 3 @ United Center
100-91 Bulls 2-1 GS
MJ 26 pts 17 reb 6 asst, Pippen 16 and 8, Rodman 8 pts 17 reb 6 asst, Wennington 8 pts, Jack Haley 10 pts
GS 11/33 from 3 Chicago 3/10 from 3

Game 4 @ United Center
121-102 GS 3-1 GS
Green 15, 13 and 8 Curry 17 and 12, Thompson 25

Game 5 @ Oracle
96-86 Bulls 3-2 GS
Pippen 12, 7 and 8 MJ 34 pts 10 asst, Rodman 8 pts 22 reb, Kukoc 18

Game 6 @ United Center
97-88 Bulls series tied 3-3
MJ 23, 9 and 5 Pippen 19, 4 and 5 Rodman 9 and 19, Kukoc 17, 9 and 7 Longley 13 and 6

Game 7 @ Oracle
97-86 Bulls win series 4-3
Curry 30 Thompson 7 pts 3/14 shooting MJ 37, 11 and 5 and 5 steals Pippen 14 and 11, Rodman 11 and 14, Kukoc 6, 5 and 8 Kerr 9
 
Scoe said:
Game 1 @ Oracle
112-103 GS 1-0 GS
stats- MJ 40 pts, 25, 10 and 6 Curry 28 pts, Green 25, 7 and 8 with 5 blks Thompson 16 Barnes 23

Game 2 @ Oracle 2-0 GS
98-84 GS
stats- MJ 26, Curry 17, 13 and 8 Green 10 pts, Thompson 17, Iguodala 14, Livingston 10, Ezelie 8

Game 3 @ United Center
100-91 Bulls 2-1 GS
MJ 26 pts 17 reb 6 asst, Pippen 16 and 8, Rodman 8 pts 17 reb 6 asst, Wennington 8 pts, Jack Haley 10 pts
GS 11/33 from 3 Chicago 3/10 from 3

Game 4 @ United Center
121-102 GS 3-1 GS
Green 15, 13 and 8 Curry 17 and 12, Thompson 25

Game 5 @ Oracle
96-86 Bulls 3-2 GS
Pippen 12, 7 and 8 MJ 34 pts 10 asst, Rodman 8 pts 22 reb, Kukoc 18

Game 6 @ United Center
97-88 Bulls series tied 3-3
MJ 23, 9 and 5 Pippen 19, 4 and 5 Rodman 9 and 19, Kukoc 17, 9 and 7 Longley 13 and 6

Game 7 @ Oracle
97-86 Bulls win series 4-3
Curry 30 Thompson 7 pts 3/14 shooting MJ 37, 11 and 5 and 5 steals Pippen 14 and 11, Rodman 11 and 14, Kukoc 6, 5 and 8 Kerr 9
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It would be interesting to see Kerr team playing for the team he is coaching against. That would be the most interesting part of this whole exercise.
 
Showtime Lakers. The toughness factor puts them over the top.
 
So there you have it the Bulls overcame a 3-1 series deficit it took them some time to adjust to GSW offense.
 
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KemBuckets21 said:
I did it. 84-85 lakers v present day warriors. going to do a sim of some other teams too. 110 lakers - 96 warriors. highlights include: Kareem was efficient for 20 pts on 10/15, Klay was held to 9 points on 3/12 shooting, and Draymond wasn't too great 14 pts 7 TO's. That's annoying to read down there , but make sense of it, if you want. Just a copy and paste of the box score.

1984-85 Magic Johnson* 34 6/12 0/0 2/2 1 9 9 0 3 1 0 14
1984-85 James Worthy* 32 7/15 0/0 1/2 0 6 2 2 1 1 3 15
1984-85 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 31 10/15 0/0 0/2 2 9 4 2 0 2 4 20
1984-85 Byron Scott* 28 5/15 0/0 0/0 2 5 4 0 2 2 1 10
1984-85 Michael Cooper 24 2/4 0/0 0/0 0 1 3 0 0 2 1 4
1984-85 Kurt Rambis* 21 1/3 0/0 1/2 3 9 1 0 1 2 3 3
1984-85 Larry Spriggs 16 6/7 0/0 3/3 1 2 2 0 1 0 2 15
1984-85 Jamaal Wilkes 15 6/10 0/0 4/4 2 3 1 0 2 0 0 16
1984-85 Bob McAdoo 14 3/6 0/0 0/0 0 5 1 0 0 2 1 6
1984-85 Mitch Kupchak 13 1/3 0/0 1/2 1 2 0 0 0 0 1 3
1984-85 Ronnie Lester 11 0/1 0/0 2/2 0 1 2 0 2 2 1 2
1984-85 Chuck Nevitt 1 0/0 0/0 0/0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
1984-85 Earl Jones 1 0/0 0/0 0/0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
1984-85 Mike McGee 1 1/1 0/0 0/0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2
TOTALS 48/92 0/0 14/19 12 52 29 4 12 14 17 110
52.2% 0% 73.7%
2015-16 Golden State Warriors


PLAYER MIN FGM/FGA 3PM/3PA FTM/FTA OREB REB AST BLK STL TO PF TP
2015-16 Draymond Green* 36 4/8 1/3 5/11 0 2 6 3 1 7 4 14
2015-16 Klay Thompson* 35 3/12 3/10 0/0 0 3 4 0 0 3 1 9
2015-16 Stephen Curry* 34 7/15 2/7 9/10 1 8 5 1 3 4 2 25
2015-16 Harrison Barnes* 33 3/11 0/1 2/2 1 2 2 1 2 2 2 8
2015-16 Andre Iguodala 28 5/6 1/1 0/0 1 4 1 0 1 2 0 11
2015-16 Shaun Livingston 22 7/14 0/0 0/0 1 4 2 0 1 1 2 14
2015-16 Andrew Bogut* 16 1/2 0/0 0/0 1 9 2 3 0 0 3 2
2015-16 Festus Ezeli 10 3/3 0/0 0/0 1 5 1 1 0 0 0 6
2015-16 Leandro Barbosa 9 1/5 0/1 0/0 0 0 2 0 0 0 2 2
2015-16 Marreese Speights 7 1/2 0/0 0/0 2 4 1 1 0 1 1 2
2015-16 Ian Clark 6 0/2 0/1 0/0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0
2015-16 Jason Thompson 1 0/0 0/0 0/0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
2015-16 Anderson Varejao 1 0/0 0/0 0/0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
2015-16 Kevon Looney 1 0/1 0/1 0/0 1 1 0 0 0 1 0 0
2015-16 James Michael McAdoo 1 0/0 0/0 0/0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
2015-16 Brandon Rush 1 1/1 1/1 0/0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 3
TOTALS 36/82 8/26 16/23 9 42 26 10 8 22 17 96
43.9% 30.8% 69.6%
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Very interesting I'm sure Magic was talking about the 86-87 Lakers team though Michael Thompson wasn't on the 85 team but that would be a great series too.
 
Lebron saw how MJ came back from 3-1 and pulled it off.
 
Not one person on the current GS or Cavs squad could guard Kareem.
 
Jaker said:
Not one person on the current GS or Cavs squad could guard Kareem.
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Very true, though the game has moved away from the type of player Kareem was. Tim Duncan is one of the last dominant post-up big men in the game right now.
 
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I think Cleveland exposed the Warriors a little. A good, intense and physical defense can stifle the smooth flowing Warrior offense to some extent.

I would pick the Lakers but rules have changed. Using 1980's rules - really no contest - with today's rules a closer game.
 
Chief00 said:
I think Cleveland exposed the Warriors a little. A good, intense and physical defense can stifle the smooth flowing Warrior offense to some extent.

I would pick the Lakers but rules have changed. Using 1980's rules - really no contest - with today's rules a closer game.
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Cavs defense is not good and wasn't good, consistently missed assignments, leaving shooters wide open, not even guarded. Warriors were bad in the series, Curry especially, Thompson was below average...

Also, Love, Irving, Frye, And JR are all below average to bad defenders, 4 of their top 8 players....

Let's all be honest here, King James showed why he is one of the three greatest players of all time, he truly carried a bad basketball team to a championship. Really just unreal what we all just saw. I'm still in awe and truly shocked by what just happen.

The Bulls and Lakers teams would smoke this Warrior team.
 
EBonz30 said:
Cavs defense is not good and wasn't good, consistently missed assignments, leaving shooters wide open, not even guarded. Warriors were bad in the series, Curry especially, Thompson was below average...

Also, Love, Irving, Frye, And JR are all below average to bad defenders, 4 of their top 8 players....

Let's all be honest here, King James showed why he is one of the three greatest players of all time, he truly carried a bad basketball team to a championship. Really just unreal what we all just saw. I'm still in awe and truly shocked by what just happen.

The Bulls and Lakers teams would smoke this Warrior team.
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I agree the Lakers, Celtics and Bulls were much better. I do think you need to give the Cavs defense some credit - when they got more physical all if a sudden the Warriors did not fall.
 
Chief00 said:
I agree the Lakers, Celtics and Bulls were much better. I do think you need to give the Cavs defense some credit - when they got more physical all if a sudden the Warriors did not fall.
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Some credit but this team was easier to guard than the ones people are talking about. They could have never handled a front line of Bird, McHale and Chief (lol) with Walton coming off the bench. Having said that they would have had a tough time guarding Lebron too but that's it. Same with Worthy, Jabaar, Thompson that year. I mean they were big and talented, and long too.
 
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Scoe said:
According to what if sports the GSW smoke the 86 Celtics, the Celtics didnt shoot 3's too often.
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Could care less about 3's scoe the Warriors wouldn't be able to stop them, they'd just walk it down the court and shove it down their throat with little defense of it. Let what if sports know if they shoot it like they did in this series they'd lose by 30 a game vs the '86 C's.
 
Scoe said:
According to what if sports the GSW smoke the 86 Celtics, the Celtics didnt shoot 3's too often.
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Whatifsports makes no adjustments for style and era. I think the Celtics would adapt well to the current rules. Bird led the league in 3s made and attempted in '86 and was one of the first to regularly attempt the shot when guarded. Ainge led the league in 3's made shortly thereafter and was among the league leaders in 3's attempted throughout the late 80's. You can probably correlate their success out over the higher number of attempts that would be needed today.

Additionally, we've seen that teams with length have been able to bother the Warriors defensively. I think that the '86 team would give them fits, and absolutely murder them on the boards.
 
Excalibur said:
Whatifsports makes no adjustments for style and era. I think the Celtics would adapt well to the current rules. Bird led the league in 3s made and attempted in '86 and was one of the first to regularly attempt the shot when guarded. Ainge led the league in 3's made shortly thereafter and was among the league leaders in 3's attempted throughout the late 80's. You can probably correlate their success out over the higher number of attempts that would be needed today.

Additionally, we've seen that teams with length have been able to bother the Warriors defensively. I think that the '86 team would give them fits, and absolutely murder them on the boards.
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Well thought out Ex and I agree. The length issue would be huge and Bogut wouldn't help all that much.
 
Excalibur said:
Whatifsports makes no adjustments for style and era. I think the Celtics would adapt well to the current rules. Bird led the league in 3s made and attempted in '86 and was one of the first to regularly attempt the shot when guarded. Ainge led the league in 3's made shortly thereafter and was among the league leaders in 3's attempted throughout the late 80's. You can probably correlate their success out over the higher number of attempts that would be needed today.

Additionally, we've seen that teams with length have been able to bother the Warriors defensively. I think that the '86 team would give them fits, and absolutely murder them on the boards.
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I think this would be a better series because the Celtics would have to make some hard choices: McHale-Bird would be pulled into pick-n-rolls on the perimeter like crazy. They'd do the same with Parish. Now McHale had length, but not speed, and Bird--though a craft defender--didn't have the speed the guard someone like Thompson either.

I think I give the series to the 86 Celtics, but each team would have to make serious adjustments on D.
 
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