OT: Seth Davis on Geno/Wooden Comparison | The Boneyard

OT: Seth Davis on Geno/Wooden Comparison

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10. Geno Auriemma’s quest for history

Yes, this is technically a storyline for women’s basketball, but Auriemma’s dominance at UConn will have special resonance in the men’s game as well. His Huskies are once again entering the season as the No. 1 team. If they end it that way, then that will give Auriemma his 11th NCAA championship, which would surpass John Wooden’s total of ten titles at UCLA from 1964-75.

When and if that happens, you can expect all the cynical types (read: men) to guffaw at any comparisons between Auriemma and Wooden, just as they did when Auriemma’s teams eclipsed UCLA’s 88-game win streak in 2010. As someone who spent more than four years researching the details of Wooden’s life and career, I believe the comparison is plenty apt.

The fact that Auriemma is coaching women does not render his challenges any easier than Wooden’s. Like Auriemma, Wooden coached in an era with relatively little parity, and he won his titles at a time when the NCAA tournament field was far smaller than what it is now. In fact, it wasn’t until his final season of 1975 that Wooden’s teams had to win more than two games to reach the Final Four. Plus, when Wooden was at UCLA, the NCAA tournament’s regions were determined by geography, not competitive balance. College basketball out west was considerably behind the rest of the country, and some of the West regionals were played in Pauley Pavilion. That was a big advantage.

Comparisons between eras are always difficult. So are comparisons between genders. The bottom line is that Auriemma is on the verge of taking down a record that once seemed unbreakable. That is a storyline worth following and, if it happens, an achievement worth celebrating.


http://www.si.com/college-basketbal...s-ben-simmons-lsu-wichita-state-kansas-big-12
 

ctchamps

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10. Geno Auriemma’s quest for history

Yes, this is technically a storyline for women’s basketball, but Auriemma’s dominance at UConn will have special resonance in the men’s game as well. His Huskies are once again entering the season as the No. 1 team. If they end it that way, then that will give Auriemma his 11th NCAA championship, which would surpass John Wooden’s total of ten titles at UCLA from 1964-75.

When and if that happens, you can expect all the cynical types (read: men) to guffaw at any comparisons between Auriemma and Wooden, just as they did when Auriemma’s teams eclipsed UCLA’s 88-game win streak in 2010. As someone who spent more than four years researching the details of Wooden’s life and career, I believe the comparison is plenty apt.

The fact that Auriemma is coaching women does not render his challenges any easier than Wooden’s. Like Auriemma, Wooden coached in an era with relatively little parity, and he won his titles at a time when the NCAA tournament field was far smaller than what it is now. In fact, it wasn’t until his final season of 1975 that Wooden’s teams had to win more than two games to reach the Final Four. Plus, when Wooden was at UCLA, the NCAA tournament’s regions were determined by geography, not competitive balance. College basketball out west was considerably behind the rest of the country, and some of the West regionals were played in Pauley Pavilion. That was a big advantage.

Comparisons between eras are always difficult. So are comparisons between genders. The bottom line is that Auriemma is on the verge of taking down a record that once seemed unbreakable. That is a storyline worth following and, if it happens, an achievement worth celebrating.


http://www.si.com/college-basketbal...s-ben-simmons-lsu-wichita-state-kansas-big-12
Cueing mau!
 
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Worth celebrating? Yes of course I agree and it's a great achievement in women's college basketball and nothing comes close in their world.

Comparison's to UCLA in the 60's-70's in regards to achievements? Sure UCLA did this at a time men's game had little parity and even the NIT was still a huge win for some of those years. So it can be compared in regards of where the games are at relative times. No issues there.

Just don't ever compare their titles to mens titles now, whether it would be UConn or anyone else because it's just not close. For the good teams in the mens tourney they get an easy one in the round of 62 and then even for #1 the 8/9 game can be treacherous. Not the same in the womens and they're lucky to see competition before the elite 8 maybe the FF, at least UConn.

He's a great coach, certainly the best women's but where he stands overall, not sure. I know it's not Top 10 0r even 20 from my perspective. You cue'd it up fleecy let's hear your story!;)
 

ctchamps

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Worth celebrating? Yes of course I agree and it's a great achievement in women's college basketball and nothing comes close in their world.

Comparison's to UCLA in the 60's-70's in regards to achievements? Sure UCLA did this at a time men's game had little parity and even the NIT was still a huge win for some of those years. So it can be compared in regards of where the games are at relative times. No issues there.

Just don't ever compare their titles to mens titles now, whether it would be UConn or anyone else because it's just not close. For the good teams in the mens tourney they get an easy one in the round of 62 and then even for #1 the 8/9 game can be treacherous. Not the same in the womens and they're lucky to see competition before the elite 8 maybe the FF, at least UConn.

He's a great coach, certainly the best women's but where he stands overall, not sure. I know it's not Top 10 0r even 20 from my perspective. You cue'd it up fleecy let's hear your story!;)
Geno's a master. I'd put him up there as one of the best coaches ever. Don't care where people choose to put him in their rankings. I prefer discussing with @jleves which of those special occasions we enjoyed the most!:cool:
 

CL82

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Making comparisons across different sports is always a fools errand. It is, necessarily, too subjective. Geno is the greatest WBB coach ever. That's what he does and I think that ought to be the focus.

FWIW I loved looking at Geno's office in the Werth Champions Center videos. It's damn impressive.
 
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Definitely one of the best ever. He doesn't get all of the top players like people who don't follow think. I follow both the men and women equally and he gets about 3 top 20 players in a good recruiting year for him. That leaves alot of players for other schools and some of which are recruiting as well and even better by ranking standards and his teams always wins. There's a simple answer to that. To me he seems like he always goes for the #1 ranked player, and 50% of the time he gets them,but the other pieces aren't always highly ranked and they win and he turns those players into lottery picks.
 
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Definitely one of the best ever. He doesn't get all of the top players like people who don't follow think. I follow both the men and women equally and he gets about 3 top 20 players in a good recruiting year for him. That leaves alot of players for other schools and some of which are recruiting as well and even better by ranking standards and his teams always wins. There's a simple answer to that. To me he seems like he always goes for the #1 ranked player, and 50% of the time he gets them,but the other pieces aren't always highly ranked and they win and he turns those players into lottery picks.

Tell me the rankings of Tuck, Stewart, Jefferson, Nurse and all of the new freshman who all played on the US National Team? Please, stop with the "he doesn't get the top players" crap. He gets them, makes the even better than they would be if they went anywhere else no doubt, but he gets the best period!

How many years in a row did he get #1 at one point? And I believe he has her again this year. It's ok he gets the best, he wins with them so why wouldn't he?
 
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The Stewart class was his last number 1 player until this year. Like I said he does get good recruiting classes but you have no idea what your talking about if you think he always has the number one class. I am not exact but he probably has had the number once in the last five years. A far cry from always having the best class.
 
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Tell me the rankings of Tuck, Stewart, Jefferson, Nurse and all of the new freshman who all played on the US National Team? Please, stop with the "he doesn't get the top players" crap. He gets them, makes the even better than they would be if they went anywhere else no doubt, but he gets the best period!

How many years in a row did he get #1 at one point? And I believe he has her again this year. It's ok he gets the best, he wins with them so why wouldn't he?
If you just look up the player rankings for the past ten years you will see that there is no way some of these other schools that had these classes shouldn't have beaten him. Some of these schools have loaded up year after year and they don't even come close. He gets like a 1,15,35,70 and others are getting 2,5,11,25 and he whoops their ass.
 
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Geno is GOAT in women's history. No one can argue that, but I agree one shouldn't compare coaches across the mens/womens line. The fact that I enter each season with the legitimate expectation for the women's team to win the natty says enough about Geno.
 

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The Stewart class was his last number 1 player until this year. Like I said he does get good recruiting classes but you have no idea what your talking about if you think he always has the number one class. I am not exact but he probably has had the number once in the last five years. A far cry from always having the best class.

Geno might argue that he gets the best class every year. How often does he not get the class he wants? Recruiting rankings are highly questionable in men's basketball where you have tons of money and eyeballs... I can't even imagine how much more unpredictable it is in women's. I think it's a little disingenuous to suggest that he doesn't always have a stellar recruiting class... but I agree with you in one regard there are other programs that have recruiting that's just as good and he routinely kicks their .

He's the best coach in the history of women's basketball... and it's not even close.
 

OkaForPrez

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Greatest women's coach but he should never be compared to men's coaches, entirely different sports.

Why not? This isn't an on the court comparison as to who would win a mens vs. womens basketball game. This is a measure of coaching greatness. Why shouldn't we talk about two individuals dominating their respective environments for longer than a decade in Relatively the same manner? And in that relative discussion its absolutely relevant to give context to the sustained greatness by pointing to the parody in both games in their respective times.

Geno is an all time great coach, it doesn't matter if he was coaching womens basketball, baseball, tiddlywinks or badminton. He's still in the conversation with Wooden.
 

ctchamps

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Why not? This isn't an on the court comparison as to who would win a mens vs. womens basketball game. This is a measure of coaching greatness. Why shouldn't we talk about two individuals dominating their respective environments for longer than a decade in Relatively the same manner? And in that relative discussion its absolutely relevant to give context to the sustained greatness by pointing to the parody in both games in their respective times.

Geno is an all time great coach, it doesn't matter if he was coaching womens basketball, baseball, tiddlywinks or badminton. He's still in the conversation with Wooden.
Agree with you especially when considering it's about getting a group of people to perform to an optimum level year after year vs. gender comparison. Not easy to do with either gender.

We can list a lot of men's bb coaches who out recruited JC and never had his success. Talent is only part of the measurable. One thing I haven't seen is that both JC and Geno essentially started from scratch. Arguably Geno inherited a much poorer program and didn't have a strong BE women's bb conference to encourage women's talent to come to Storrs. The SEC and the Big 10 were the prohibitive conference leaders. And no this is not a comparison of Geno to JC. I just haven't seen people mention Geno's historic accomplishment in this forum but have seen JC's historic accomplishment particularly when JC is compared to coach K.
 
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And Wooden had Hazard, Goodrich, Alcindor, Walton, and Wicks. He also had the top talent during his run of titles, and got the best out of them.
 
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I think people are admitting 1) he is a great coach 2) his team can be compared to Wooden's years because the parity is very similar, no on e doubts that. Back then Wooden had the best players like Geno does now. And now the womens game is comparable to the mens game back then because there were only a few teams who could compete of the title and there will be very few if any surprises.

It's just not the same in the men's game these days, you never know who can knock you out and teams do not win by 40 in the Elite 8 and Sweet 16. It's because of parity but also because Geno is a better women's coach than his competition and we all agree that's not close.
 
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Agree with you especially when considering it's about getting a group of people to perform to an optimum level year after year vs. gender comparison. Not easy to do with either gender.

We can list a lot of men's bb coaches who out recruited JC and never had his success. Talent is only part of the measurable. One thing I haven't seen is that both JC and Geno essentially started from scratch. Arguably Geno inherited a much poorer program and didn't have a strong BE women's bb conference to encourage women's talent to come to Storrs. The SEC and the Big 10 were the prohibitive conference leaders. And no this is not a comparison of Geno to JC. I just haven't seen people mention Geno's historic accomplishment in this forum but have seen JC's historic accomplishment particularly when JC is compared to coach K.

Oh fleudy I won't even start. OK I will - Inherited a much poorer program no doubt but the Yankee Conference Huskies weren't exactly lighting it up. And the argument would be it was MUCH tougher to build the men's program to where JC got it that Geno - again because of parity and Tennessee being pretty much the only team who was winning. Yeah the occasional candy, Purdue and a couple others but the Big East womens programs already sucked, the mens's programs were among the BEST on the country already and the best conference in the country if not # 2. Much tougher to climb from that cellar and there' son doubt about that.

Why can't people just leave it at Geno's the best womens' coach ever and leave the comparisons to Pat Summitt?
 

OkaForPrez

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Oh fleudy I won't even start. OK I will - Inherited a much poorer program no doubt but the Yankee Conference Huskies weren't exactly lighting it up. And the argument would be it was MUCH tougher to build the men's program to where JC got it that Geno - again because of parity and Tennessee being pretty much the only team who was winning. Yeah the occasional candy, Purdue and a couple others but the Big East womens programs already sucked, the mens's programs were among the BEST on the country already and the best conference in the country if not # 2. Much tougher to climb from that cellar and there' son doubt about that.

Why can't people just leave it at Geno's the best womens' coach ever and leave the comparisons to Pat Summitt?
I'm more comfortable with comparing Geno to wooden than I am Geno to Calhoun.
 

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People like to say Geno gets all the best players. It didn't start that way. What I think Fleud was trying to say is that he was coaching an unknown team and they played in a conference that was poor for women's basketball.
He created the tradition that makes women want to play here. Amazing coach, amazing program builder, amazingly loyal to UConn.

You can't compare the men's & women's game. So we have no idea if Wooden would have accomplished as much with the UConn women :cool:
 

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Geno has so much competition for those nattys... Like Norte dame, South Carolina, and....that's it
 

Huskyforlife

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Keeping the number one player for 4 years and having any recruit he wants at the tip of his hand are pretty nice perks as well
 
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