OT- Ronda Rousey gets destroyed

[MexicoHusky]

Disagree. She got beat by someone who was simply better and didnt allow her to do what she normally does. When RR got HH down and HH defended the armbar and managed to get up i thought she might be in trouble. Thats the question i always had about RR. What happens when someone takes away what she does best? The true greats find other ways to win while the good simply dont have the tools to overcome. If RR is a one trick pony she will lose in a rematch. Her striking has always been a ? so she needs to work on it but more importantly she needs to impose her will on HH and make her fight RR fight. If she doesnt the result will be the same.

I think we both could be correct. She was out classed for sure, but she also fought really foolishly. I definitely feel she felt the pressure of the reputation she has created.

 

[superjohn]

What is the deal with that sport, why do people prefer watching women fight to men?

 

[MexicoHusky]

What is the deal with that sport, why do people prefer watching women fight to men?

Not sure, but i watched the fight at a packed Applebees. Everyone was on the edge of their seat.

 

[Towney007]

Yeah put me in the camp of this being a pretty obvious mismatch. The difference in physical athleticism was really jarring. Holm was *a lot* faster and *a lot* stronger. Even when Ronda caught her, it didn't end up well as she'd eat shots on the way in, get muscled up to her feet and then eat more shots on the break. And Ronda hit her with some bombs (for her) and Holm just ate them like they were nothing. Sure - Holly's game plan was great and Ronda's was... literally amateurish... but that's not the reason Rousey lost. She's just not physically anywhere near Holm's league.

They'll do the rematch to make some money but there was absolutely nothing I saw in the first fight that would make me think Rousey could do anything to her. She's not strong enough to get her to the mat, and certainly not strong enough to keep her there. She can't get past the reach of Holm and she just doesn't have the chin to take what's gonna need to get taken to maneuver her way inside. That's kind of the problem with Judo - it doesn't work at a distance and there isn't much shooting like there is in wrestling. So her skills don't match up, they're not as good and she completely lacks the physical ability to hang with Holm.

The other big piece people are forgetting as well - Women's MMA is a completely underdeveloped sport. I'd have a hard time making a case that of the top 20 women in female fight sports - that more than 3 or 4 of the those are actually *in* MMA. I mean Men's MMA evolved the same way. We know Tank Abbott couldn't do anything in 2015 - and we saw guys like Brock Lesnar, Rashaad Evans and GSP just physically overwhelm guys like Randy Couture, Chuck Lidell and Matt Hughes. Especially in Lesnar's case - skill had nothing to do with it. Physically - he was just a completely superior human to Randy in every way. The sport's evolving. And as we see more of the elite athletes come into play in women's MMA, we'll see the Rousey's and Meisha Tate's of the world fade fast. Rousey wasn't ever even the best Judoka in the world for any significant stretch of time. I think her time at the top of women's MMA is pretty much over.

 

[MexicoHusky]

Does anyone think Rousey's success is phony? Made from carefully selected opponents who give Rhonda a chance to win...

 

[TasteofUConn]

Ronda Rousey (before Holm fight)= Mike Tyson (before Buster Douglas). "Baddest Women on the Planet"/"Baddest Man on the Planet". Both bought into the hype.

Tyson was the baddest man on the planet. There was no hype required - he was that ferocious.

 

[noeynox]

Does anyone think Rousey's success is phony? Made from carefully selected opponents who give Rhonda a chance to win...

No. She was legitimately beating the top women in her weight class like Cat Zingano who was probably physically superior but whose aggressiveness got her caught in the strangest armband you could ever see, in like 14 seconds.
Rousey was good, this girl Holm was like 35-2-2, as professional boxer and also had professional kickboxing experience. Rousey was no match for this girl in a striking contest.

 

[superjohn]

No. She was legitimately beating the top women in her weight class like Cat Zingano who was probably physically superior but whose aggressiveness got her caught in the strangest armband you could ever see, in like 14 seconds.
Rousey was good, this girl Holm was like 35-2-2, as professional boxer and also had professional kickboxing experience. Rousey was no match for this girl in a striking contest.

Agreed on everything but as an aside how many women are in MMA and professional boxing? I would think they are about as niche as it gets.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

Watching the highlights of the fight I couldn't help thinking of something I read years ago by Jim Brown (former football player, likely as good of an athlete as anyone who ever weighed ion at 230 lbs). He became friendly with Muhammed Ali in the mid 1960's (I believe Jackie Robinson was the one who asked high profile black athletes to get involved with the civil rights movement) and when Brown became bored with football (he did retire at the height of his career) he called Ali and said he was thinking of becoming a boxer. Ali asked him to meet the next morning @ 5 am and run with him during Ali's road work. Without talking they ran about 1/2 mile, Ali asked Brown if he was serious about boxing and said 'hold up your hands'. Ali then threw seven punches, in combination, all landing less than an inch form Brown's face. He again asked if Brown was serious about becoming a boxer. Brown knew then that he would need to do something else.

Listen to Morgan Freeman's narrative at the opening of Million Dollar Bay and you will get an idea of what it takes to become a boxer. This wasn't Douglas beating Tyson as that was basically a once ridiculously skilled boxer (Tyson) being turned into a puncher by management (King) that neither knew nor cared about skill or training being beaten by someone who was able to matchup with him that one time. Unless they change the rules to make this purely grappling, Rousey isn't capable of hanging with Holm in any ring. Holm is far too skilled (and Rousey far too amateur) as a boxer and Holm may also be far too skilled as a kick boxer. Rousey can't get close enough to do anything without taking too much punishment in the process.

 

[UCweCONN]

Tyson was the baddest man on the planet. There was no hype required - he was that ferocious.

Maybe you're right. I never could beat him in "Mike Tyson's Punch Out" on Nintendo. I could crush King Hippo, that Flamenco guy and the rest of the prelim stiffs but Tyson would make one fake and knock me out every time. Was it even possible to beat Tyson??

 

[ucinnc]

Maybe you're right. I never could beat him in "Mike Tyson's Punch Out" on Nintendo. I could crush King Hippo, that Flamenco guy and the rest of the prelim stiffs but Tyson would make one fake and knock me out every time. Was it even possible to beat Tyson??

He had a tell. When he winks, you dodge then counterpunch. Took a while, but I took down the champ.

King Hippo. LOL.

 

[Towney007]

Does anyone think Rousey's success is phony? Made from carefully selected opponents who give Rhonda a chance to win...

I don't think her success was phony. She beat who was in front of her. I'm just not sure what was in front of her was ever very good to begin with. With better athletes flooding the sport literally every day, I just think she had an early expiration date as a bonafide top star.

Rousey can't get close enough to do anything without taking too much punishment in the process.

See here's my thing with this, though - Is even when she got close - she couldn't do anything. Couldn't control Holly, couldn't take her down, couldn't keep her down. She actually ate even more punches coming in, while in and breaking from the clinch. Again - it just comes down to Holly being a superior athlete in almost every single way.

 

[noeynox]

Maybe you're right. I never could beat him in "Mike Tyson's Punch Out" on Nintendo. I could crush King Hippo, that Flamenco guy and the rest of the prelim stiffs but Tyson would make one fake and knock me out every time. Was it even possible to beat Tyson??

I owned his ass in Mike Tyson punchout. Those games were all timing patterns. With Iron Mike you had to avoid the uppercuts for the first 90 seconds.

@superjohn , I don't think women fighting is as niche as when Christy Martin and Leila Ali were the marquee names. The women in those games today are more in numbers and have honed their games considerably. One of the women Rousey beat Sarah McMann, was an olympic medalist in wrestling I believe.

 

[Towney007]

One of the most impressive things looking back is how shockingly great Holly was technically. She absolutely owned Ronda's clinch.

One thing I noticed a lot of Ronda's opponents did in the past was playing right into their hands by wrapping their arms around her in the headlock clinch and not keeping their hips lowered. Ronda's gets her hips under everyone and as soon as their opponent wraps their arms around her waist she can roll either way and pop that arm bar. The one time when Holly did that, she had her back taken, Ronda was literally one step away from nabbing the bar - all she had to do was pass her foot through her guard. Holly immediately took her hands out from around her waste so that even when Ronda tried to pass, there was no arm there to roll off of and no submission to be had. Holly simply stood up and began teeing off on her again. It's literally like she solved the whole riddle to Ronda's clinch game.

One thing people forget - is that boxers live in the clinch and Holly's maybe the best clinch female fighter ever. She knew what she was doing. Kind of watched this fight 2-3 times and figured Holly survived her in the clinch. She didn't. She beat her bad. In fact, that's where I feel like she actually won the fight.

 

[Chin Diesel]

On the free prelims on FS1 there was a kick as good as Holm's.

Straight left kick just under rib cage. Dude that got hit instantly screamed, grabbed his ribs and collapsed on the ground.

Much like boxing, almost impossible to drop someone with a rib shot.

 

[UconnFanNVa]

I don't think her success was phony. She beat who was in front of her. I'm just not sure what was in front of her was ever very good to begin with. With better athletes flooding the sport literally every day, I just think she had an early expiration date as a bonafide top star.



See here's my thing with this, though - Is even when she got close - she couldn't do anything. Couldn't control Holly, couldn't take her down, couldn't keep her down. She actually ate even more punches coming in, while in and breaking from the clinch. Again - it just comes down to Holly being a superior athlete in almost every single way.

I dont think Holly would choose to let Ronda get her on the ground again. I'm not saying it was complete luck that she got out, but I bet more times than not, if Holly gets on the ground with Ronda, Ronda will win the fight. That being said, I dont think Ronda would be able to get Holly on the ground in most fights... Especially after this loss, I think if there was a rematch, Ronda would be too scared to get close enough to get her on the ground. I agree Holly is just a superior fighter and athlete though.

 

[Hoopdreams]

They can fight again and Holly Holm will knock her out again. End of story!

 

[noeynox]

One of the most impressive things looking back is how shockingly great Holly was technically. She absolutely owned Ronda's clinch.

One thing I noticed a lot of Ronda's opponents did in the past was playing right into their hands by wrapping their arms around her in the headlock clinch and not keeping their hips lowered. Ronda's gets her hips under everyone and as soon as their opponent wraps their arms around her waist she can roll either way and pop that arm bar. The one time when Holly did that, she had her back taken, Ronda was literally one step away from nabbing the bar - all she had to do was pass her foot through her guard. Holly immediately took her hands out from around her waste so that even when Ronda tried to pass, there was no arm there to roll off of and no submission to be had. Holly simply stood up and began teeing off on her again. It's literally like she solved the whole riddle to Ronda's clinch game.

One thing people forget - is that boxers live in the clinch and Holly's maybe the best clinch female fighter ever. She knew what she was doing. Kind of watched this fight 2-3 times and figured Holly survived her in the clinch. She didn't. She beat her bad. In fact, that's where I feel like she actually won the fight.

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and say you didn't watch this before your post. If you didn't props to you for being such a technical observer of the sport. You went into great detail in your post almost matching Firaz Zahabi in your breakdown. Below is great 13 minute breakdown of how Holm did it.

http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2015/11/...-holly-holm-full-fight-breakdown-firas-zahabi

 

[UConnSean]

Regardless of expected outcome, IMO there is no way Holly and/or Ronda fight anyone else first. The UFC won't take any risk in Holly losing the belt to someone like Tate. There is too much money on the table for UFC 200

 

[Leebo]

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and say you didn't watch this before your post. If you didn't props to you for being such a technical observer of the sport. You went into great detail in your post almost matching Firaz Zahabi in your breakdown. Below is great 13 minute breakdown of how Holm did it.

http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2015/11/...-holly-holm-full-fight-breakdown-firas-zahabi

As someone who has never watched any MMA at all, this was interesting to watch, because if you just listened to people here, Rousey is a fraud who doesn't have any skills.

 

[noeynox]

As someone who has never watched any MMA at all, this was interesting to watch, because if you just listened to people here, Rousey is a fraud who doesn't have any skills.

Rousey is very very good. The hype train had gotten out of control. That Dana White was proclaiming that Rousey would rag doll Mayweather was absurd. You saw Rousey get outclassed by a female professional boxer on the feet. What do you think the best pound for pound male boxer on the planet would do to her? The mainstream media was running with this way too much. I personally had gotten tired of the hyperbole regarding her. Joe Rogan said she could beat half the males in the UFC'S bantamweight division. Her greatness was undeniable, but she was being hyped to mythical lengths with Rogan comparing calling her fights to what it must have been like to call Muhammad Ali s fights. Silliness.

 

[dante]

That's some Deja Vu sh.......

 

[CL82]

Ronda Rousey (before Holm fight)= Mike Tyson (before Buster Douglas). "Baddest Women on the Planet"/"Baddest Man on the Planet". Both bought into the hype.

Remember this folks: There's always a badder man or women out there than you (and probably both.) and if you're lucky you'll never run into him or her. This statement applies to everyone. Well, except for William Shea.

Ah but if Shea ran into him, he could always run away...or call for help, so he's good either way.

 

[Towney007]

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and say you didn't watch this before your post. If you didn't props to you for being such a technical observer of the sport. You went into great detail in your post almost matching Firaz Zahabi in your breakdown. Below is great 13 minute breakdown of how Holm did it.

VALIDATION~!

But no seriously, I'm a Judoka, so... I'm not going to toot my horn that much. What he points out and what I talked about... that's pretty basic stuff. Like it's literally impossible to do anything without hip position in Judo. And hands wrapped around the waist stuff is literally S.O.P. for luring someone into an arm bar in Judo. Watch some of the Olympic matches and it rarely ever gets picked because players know how to defend it. It's almost kind of like a nutmeg in soccer. You don't want to be the dope that has that happen to them.

I'd hardly call myself even a skilled fighter (I'm a pretty casual practitioner) but Ronda's so robotic and repetitive in her fights that I'm honestly shocked no one's caught on to this point. Even if you watch Firaz's video - he shows a million clips of her doing the SAME THING in every fight and literally all her opponents - even pre-UFC - fall for the same trick. I'm not ragging on her skill because her days as a Judoka player were much better in the Olympics - and her offense was wide ranging. But you could literally count the number of major judo practitioners in mainstream MMA on one hand - if that. She just shot a judo hold over and over that most people have never seen or considered. Holly had a crack coaching staff and I've got a feeling they pretty much picked it off right off the bat.

But again, while coaching made a difference here - it's not the reason Ronda lost. Holly broke her guard frequently and obliterated her in the clinch. Ronda took as many hits heading INTO the clinch, INSIDE the clinch and separating from the clinch as she did with Holly dancing around and popping her. Judo's a horrible style match up with a boxer because one - you're kept at extreme range and even when you close space, Boxers are better than anyone in a standup clinch - which is the real estate where a Judoka needs to exist to apply their craft.

So really - the whole thing was a perfect storm:

-Bad coaching for Rousey
-Crack coaching for Holm
-Horrible Styles Match up for Rousey
-Holm was stronger
-Holm was *a lot* faster
-And don't forget - Holly took some SHOTS (one knocked her mouthpiece out) and she wasn't ever rocked of phased. Ronda couldn't hurt her)
-Knew how to stuff all of Ronda's offense
-Had a big reach advantage
-Was in *superior* condition

I know some people were commenting on her camp - but Ronda dropped weight to chase Holm. She was gassed in two minutes. To me it's not a skill, training or coaching issue - it's a professional athlete vs. a very good amateur. I just think it got exposed. Now as more of the best women's fighters make their way into MMA, I think you'll see Rousey go the way of the Chuck Lidell's, Rich Franklins and Tito Ortiz's of the world. Somewhat competitive - great for solid draw mid card fights - but utterly outclassed by elite fighters.

 

[Towney007]

Just more from the 'we all should have seen this coming a mile away' file:

Look at how accurate her striking is once you get to the later highlights. I mean that's insane. The combos, the precision - but most importantly... look how solid her base is. She's never off balance, never out of control. She's basically evolved into a female version of CroCop - except more athletic and a way, way, way better boxer.