OT: RIP ALI

[Chin Diesel]

Ali as a conscientious objector gave up more than almost anyone during the War.

Even if you disagree with his choice, he owned it and owned the consequences.

Nevermind athletes, think of the politicians, media personalities and others from that era, that dodged the draft or got waivers. None of them sacrificed as much personally as Ali. And then he lived his life accordingly for the next 50 years.

His speed as a heavyweight is still unmatched and he could take a punch.

 

[80shusky]

RIP Champ. A transcendent figure if there ever was one. Larger than life and one of the great personalities of all time. You were the greatest Champ, because there will never be another like you.

 

[temery]

Larger than life or Huge ego? A very thin line.

Not at all a thin line. He was clearly both.

I didn't like him when I was a kid, but he clearly was awesome.

Muhammad Ali dodges 21 punches in 10s in the corner! --g amazing!

 

[Deepster]

It's hard to say "never"....but I'd find it hard pressed to think we will ever see the confluence of....

• State of the Union - The civil rights movement and the Vietnam War all in play
• The impact of the players involved outside the ring (Ali, Malcom X, MLK) and inside the ring (Liston, Frazier, Foreman, et al)
• The skill of one individual like Ali's in his sport
• Ali's ability to take a sport where you punch other guys in the head....and turn it into such a longstanding and impactful social platform. For decades.

He really was the perfect storm.

 

[Kitaman]

This is a basketball forum so I end my posting with this basketball related post, (who else could command this respect from other sports' athletes, including another country?):

 

[UCweCONN]

Around maybe 1990, Ali was making a public appearance for his cologne at our local mall and I wanted to meet him and get his autograph. I guess being a teenager, I underestimated the popularity he still had because when I got there, the line was to the back of the store and I knew even if I got in line I'd never get to him before it closed. I went up and got close so I could at least see him. I'll never forget, he looked over at me and waved and gave me a little grin. He was suffering from Parkinson's but when he looked at me I saw the spark in his eye. He was a real people person and I hated to see the physical condition he was in but his brain was still sharp as a tack. Many say that his time out of boxing in the 60s for opposing the draft is what caused him to keep fighting past his prime. The Spinks fight was a shame but the Holmes fight was tragic. Holmes idolized Ali and hated to have to beat him up but Ali was clinging to his legend. It had to have hurt Ali to take a beating from his long-time sparring partner. Rest in peace, Ali, the greatest of all time.

 

[gtcam]

Loved Cassius Clay Questioned Ali
Was he a great Boxer? Perhaps the greatest
Was he a Huge ego? Perhaps the biggest
One of the few you could love, laugh with but also dislike certain qualities and in the end you couldn't hate the guy
The Ali Frazier fights were among the top sporting events of all time
RIP

 

[uconnfan68]

Fearless, the man was *ing fearless. Got to shake his hand back in '08 and it was the only time I've ever felt like I was in the presence on greatness, feels like one of the last great men on this earth just left us.

He was the only person I ever asked for the privilege of shaking his hand.

 

[noeynox]

Before my time, but truly the Greatest.

 

[Devland]

This was true. I was one of them. Foreman had hit Frazier so hard he lifted Joe off the canvas on the knockout punch. Nobody did that to Frazier. I was in my car and the station (a music station no less as sports talk didn't yet exist) gave updates at the end of each round. I was nervous between each update. When the final update said he won, I believe I actually shed a tear of joy.

Frazier in some ways prepared Ali for the Foreman fight. Ali adapted to Frazier aggressive come at you style by clutching and grabbing. Ali knew he could not just stand toe to toe with these guys. Frazier on the other hand would keep coming coming no matter what. This is what got him destroyed against Foreman. Ali knew his own weaknesses an did whatever was necessary to prevent them from getting exploited.

 

[80shusky]

Here's an Ali demolition posted on Twitter today. Domination.

 

[tzznandrew]

Here's an Ali demolition posted on Twitter today. Domination.

Oy. Poor Cleveland Williams, a good puncher who came into this fight after a year of recovery from a gunshot wound. Dude had a rough life, too, since he died in a hit and run in 1999.

Ali absolutely destroyed him here.

 

[storrsroars]

Oy. Poor Cleveland Williams, a good puncher who came into this fight after a year of recovery from a gunshot wound. Dude had a rough life, too, since he died in a hit and run in 1999.

Ali absolutely destroyed him here.

Was watching some old footage of Cosell and Ali going through some of his early fights. Cosell asked Ali a couple of times if he was hitting Williams with gut punches because that's where the bullet wound was. Ali replied that because Williams was tall, the guy was easier to hit.

Have to love Cosell for that. While he and Ali were friendly, it never stopped Cosell from asking pointed questions.

 

[aceboon]

HBO's piece that they showed at the conclusion of the Vargas/Salido fight last night, tremendous.

 

[mauconnfan]

Clay/Ali is not only a great guy but thinking and remembering him brings back great memories with my hero, my dad. He would get me next to him and explain the fight as it was going on, showing me the nuances of the game while showing me why Ali was so great. His favorites were originally Marciano and Louis, but amazingly enough he somehow came to love Ali despite the original perception of him being an arrogant loudmouth. He respected how great he was so therefore I did too.

great man, well both were

 

[Dogdeacon]

Clay/Ali is not only a great guy but thinking and remembering him brings back great memories with my hero, my dad. He would get me next to him and explain the fight as it was going on, showing me the nuances of the game while showing me why Ali was so great. His favorites were originally Marciano and Louis, but amazingly enough he somehow came to love Ali despite the original perception of him being an arrogant loudmouth. He respected how great he was so therefore I did too.

great man, well both were

Mau - I've got a very similar confluence of memories linking Ali and my dad. Sometime in the late eighties Dad was in Florida and saw a listing on a building for Angelo Dundee Enterprises, curious he knocked on the door and within a few minutes found himself sitting opposite Angelo Dundee himself reminiscing about Ali. A month later I received a 8 x 10 picture in the mail, personally signed to me, best wishes Muhammad Ali.
Hope they are shadow-boxing each other somewhere.

 

[prankster]

 

[Scoe]

 

[David 76]

I don't think Ali had a huge ego. He had his shtick for boxing to psych out his opponents. He he a loud voice bout racial injustice, his religion and Viet Nam but I see that as being courageous and ahead of his time.

 

[Devland]

I found this interesting. The is also a short 2 part interview with Joe Frazier.
Muhammad Ali's Success Would Have Been Impossible Without Joe Frazier

While these days Ali is seemingly always portrayed as the “old-school” boxer who also made a tremendous social impact, it was Frazier, in my opinion, who truly exemplified old-school values. Despite being tormented publicly by Ali, Frazier never countered and was a great friend to his nemesis. Frazier gave Ali money to survive after Ali was stripped of his title and barred from boxing for refusing to serve in the Army at the height of the Vietnam War.


Frazier was a friend when no one else would give Ali squat, and advocated for his reinstatement. In return, Ali tormented Frazier by calling him an “Uncle Tom” in the run-up to their first fight in 1971 –about the worse thing one black man can call another black man. For their last fight, “the Thrilla in Manila”, Ali was guaranteed $4.5 million and Frazier $2 million. Ali’s pre-fight marketing included calling Frazier a gorilla.

 

[David 76]

[QUOTE="Devland, post: 1713937, member: 394"

While these days Ali is seemingly always portrayed as the “old-school” boxer who also made a tremendous social impact, it was Frazier, in my opinion, eir first fight in 1971 –about the worse thing one black man can call another black man. For their last fight, “the Thrilla in Manila”, Ali was guaranteed $4.5 million and Frazier $2 million. Ali’s pre-fight marketing included calling Frazier a gorilla.[/QUOTE]

I love Ali but did feel sorry for defenseless Joe when Ali taunted him.

BUT, who ever referred to Ali as old school? He was the opposite of that. As far as the differential in pay and the rivalry, Ali was the show. He would have made his money with or without Frazier. And when called an uncle Tom, Frazier didn't know what it meant. He thought he was being called a peeping Tom.

Frazier was a great boxer who unfortunately boxed in the shadow of the greatest. Not too bright and lacking charisma. Btw, Ali gave all his early opponent animal names. List on the bear, Patterson the rabbit, Joe the gorilla

 

[lne001]

One of the most intelligent and eloquent human beings of all time.

Really? You need to expand your range of human exposure. He was neither of the things you ascribe above. He was a smart man who used the heavyweight championship celebrity to trumpet his opinions.

He was a great, great fighter with a big, self-promoting mouth. Nothing wrong with that.

If not for being in sports you would never have heard of him. He did have the courage to live his convictions, a huge plus. I liked and admired the man, but his "greatness" was pretty much limited to one boxing weight class.

 

[BUHusky]

Shocked this thread went 50+ posts before someone mucked it up.

Not shocked the person who finally did muck it up primarily posts on the Cesspool and Women's bball forum...

RIP to the greatest.

 

[Devland]

[QUOTE="Devland, post: 1713937, member: 394"

While these days Ali is seemingly always portrayed as the “old-school” boxer who also made a tremendous social impact, it was Frazier, in my opinion, eir first fight in 1971 –about the worse thing one black man can call another black man. For their last fight, “the Thrilla in Manila”, Ali was guaranteed $4.5 million and Frazier $2 million. Ali’s pre-fight marketing included calling Frazier a gorilla.

I love Ali but did feel sorry for defenseless Joe when Ali taunted him.

BUT, who ever referred to Ali as old school? He was the opposite of that. As far as the differential in pay and the rivalry, Ali was the show. He would have made his money with or without Frazier. And when called an uncle Tom, Frazier didn't know what it meant. He thought he was being called a peeping Tom.

Frazier was a great boxer who unfortunately boxed in the shadow of the greatest. Not too bright and lacking charisma. Btw, Ali gave all his early opponent animal names. List on the bear, Patterson the rabbit, Joe the gorilla[/QUOTE]I rooted for Ali against Frazier when I was younger. But I admit I used to cringe when he would degrade his opponent and boast about himself. Over the years as I got older actually came to respect Frazier more. He definitely changed Ali's boxing style because of the beating he gave Ali in those fights. Ali's "float like a butterfly sting like a bee" was more pre-Frazier. The Frazier fights and post Frazier were more cover-up, grab the opponent behind the neck and survive until the opponent wore down and the come on in the later rounds. He also got his share of favorable decisions. The second Frazier fight, Ken Norton and Jimmy Young were all iffy decisions. But he was Ali, I think they knew going in they had to knock him out to win.

 

[tzznandrew]

I rooted for Ali against Frazier when I was younger. But I admit I used to cringe when he would degrade his opponent and boast about himself.

I think Ali recognized he crossed a line with Frazier, particularly in the run-up to the Thrilla. At that point, though, who could really blame Frazier for wanting nothing to do with him.

 

[David 76]

[QUOTE="Devland, post: 1714220, member: 394I rooted for Ali against Frazier when I was. younger. But I admit I used to cringe when he would degrade his opponent and boast about himself. Over the years as I got older actually came to respect Frazier more. He definitely changed Ali's boxing style because of the beating he gave Ali in those fights. Ali's "float like a butterfly sting like a bee" was more pre-Frazier. The Frazier fights and post Frazier were more cover-up, grab the opponent behind the neck and survive until the opponent wore down and the come on in the later rounds. He also got his share of favorable decisions. The second Frazier fight, Ken Norton and Jimmy Young were all iffy decisions. But he was Ali, I think they knew going in they had to knock him out to win.[/QUOTE]

Ali and Frazier were after a 3.5 year ban from boxing. The ban from boxing came after years of boxing. You can like Frazier better. That's fine. Think he's a better boxer? It is a minority opinion. It probably doesn't belong on a thread about Ali's death. So let's let the thread get back to its purpose

 

[puppygenius]

I found this interesting. The is also a short 2 part interview with Joe Frazier.
Muhammad Ali's Success Would Have Been Impossible Without Joe Frazier

While these days Ali is seemingly always portrayed as the “old-school” boxer who also made a tremendous social impact, it was Frazier, in my opinion, who truly exemplified old-school values. Despite being tormented publicly by Ali, Frazier never countered and was a great friend to his nemesis. Frazier gave Ali money to survive after Ali was stripped of his title and barred from boxing for refusing to serve in the Army at the height of the Vietnam War.


Frazier was a friend when no one else would give Ali squat, and advocated for his reinstatement. In return, Ali tormented Frazier by calling him an “Uncle Tom” in the run-up to their first fight in 1971 –about the worse thing one black man can call another black man. For their last fight, “the Thrilla in Manila”, Ali was guaranteed $4.5 million and Frazier $2 million. Ali’s pre-fight marketing included calling Frazier a gorilla.

To begin with the title is a lie, interesting story perhaps, but garbage none the less.

 

[temery]

Been looking for this video. I remember watching it as a kid. It's wonderful now that he is so well thought of on his death. That wasn't the case 50 years ago.

 

[Horatio]

RIP Champ and Thanks

 

[temery]

I think Ali recognized he crossed a line with Frazier, particularly in the run-up to the Thrilla. At that point, though, who could really blame Frazier for wanting nothing to do with him.

I never liked or bought the "I am the greatest" stuff. At his best, possibly. But he did have five losses (granted there at the end of his career).

Ali was at his best outside the ring, when he spoke about and refused to fight in the Vietnam War, and explained why he wouldn't fight in south east Asia.

I remember reading the army initially set his IQ as being in the 70's (borderline "dumb"). Even Ali supposedly admitted he was illiterate. Being illiterate has nothing to do with Intelligence. And if his IQ was in the 70's, that only proves the IQ test is bullsh!t.

Listen to him speak about the war, and about racism in the US. Being "smart" is all about understanding and solving problems. Ali completely understood the problems of his day (racism first, and Vietnam), and did his best to make sure everyone understood.

I dare anyone to watch the first 20 seconds of this clip, and tell me he was anything but "The Greatest" at that very moment. He wasn't boxing, but he was fighting.