OT: RIP ALI

[David 76]

[QUOTE="Devland, post: 1713937, member: 394"

While these days Ali is seemingly always portrayed as the “old-school” boxer who also made a tremendous social impact, it was Frazier, in my opinion, eir first fight in 1971 –about the worse thing one black man can call another black man. For their last fight, “the Thrilla in Manila”, Ali was guaranteed $4.5 million and Frazier $2 million. Ali’s pre-fight marketing included calling Frazier a gorilla.[/QUOTE]

I love Ali but did feel sorry for defenseless Joe when Ali taunted him.

BUT, who ever referred to Ali as old school? He was the opposite of that. As far as the differential in pay and the rivalry, Ali was the show. He would have made his money with or without Frazier. And when called an uncle Tom, Frazier didn't know what it meant. He thought he was being called a peeping Tom.

Frazier was a great boxer who unfortunately boxed in the shadow of the greatest. Not too bright and lacking charisma. Btw, Ali gave all his early opponent animal names. List on the bear, Patterson the rabbit, Joe the gorilla

 

[lne001]

One of the most intelligent and eloquent human beings of all time.

Really? You need to expand your range of human exposure. He was neither of the things you ascribe above. He was a smart man who used the heavyweight championship celebrity to trumpet his opinions.

He was a great, great fighter with a big, self-promoting mouth. Nothing wrong with that.

If not for being in sports you would never have heard of him. He did have the courage to live his convictions, a huge plus. I liked and admired the man, but his "greatness" was pretty much limited to one boxing weight class.

 

[BUHusky]

Shocked this thread went 50+ posts before someone mucked it up.

Not shocked the person who finally did muck it up primarily posts on the Cesspool and Women's bball forum...

RIP to the greatest.

 

[Devland]

[QUOTE="Devland, post: 1713937, member: 394"

While these days Ali is seemingly always portrayed as the “old-school” boxer who also made a tremendous social impact, it was Frazier, in my opinion, eir first fight in 1971 –about the worse thing one black man can call another black man. For their last fight, “the Thrilla in Manila”, Ali was guaranteed $4.5 million and Frazier $2 million. Ali’s pre-fight marketing included calling Frazier a gorilla.

I love Ali but did feel sorry for defenseless Joe when Ali taunted him.

BUT, who ever referred to Ali as old school? He was the opposite of that. As far as the differential in pay and the rivalry, Ali was the show. He would have made his money with or without Frazier. And when called an uncle Tom, Frazier didn't know what it meant. He thought he was being called a peeping Tom.

Frazier was a great boxer who unfortunately boxed in the shadow of the greatest. Not too bright and lacking charisma. Btw, Ali gave all his early opponent animal names. List on the bear, Patterson the rabbit, Joe the gorilla[/QUOTE]I rooted for Ali against Frazier when I was younger. But I admit I used to cringe when he would degrade his opponent and boast about himself. Over the years as I got older actually came to respect Frazier more. He definitely changed Ali's boxing style because of the beating he gave Ali in those fights. Ali's "float like a butterfly sting like a bee" was more pre-Frazier. The Frazier fights and post Frazier were more cover-up, grab the opponent behind the neck and survive until the opponent wore down and the come on in the later rounds. He also got his share of favorable decisions. The second Frazier fight, Ken Norton and Jimmy Young were all iffy decisions. But he was Ali, I think they knew going in they had to knock him out to win.

 

[tzznandrew]

I rooted for Ali against Frazier when I was younger. But I admit I used to cringe when he would degrade his opponent and boast about himself.

I think Ali recognized he crossed a line with Frazier, particularly in the run-up to the Thrilla. At that point, though, who could really blame Frazier for wanting nothing to do with him.

 

[David 76]

[QUOTE="Devland, post: 1714220, member: 394I rooted for Ali against Frazier when I was. younger. But I admit I used to cringe when he would degrade his opponent and boast about himself. Over the years as I got older actually came to respect Frazier more. He definitely changed Ali's boxing style because of the beating he gave Ali in those fights. Ali's "float like a butterfly sting like a bee" was more pre-Frazier. The Frazier fights and post Frazier were more cover-up, grab the opponent behind the neck and survive until the opponent wore down and the come on in the later rounds. He also got his share of favorable decisions. The second Frazier fight, Ken Norton and Jimmy Young were all iffy decisions. But he was Ali, I think they knew going in they had to knock him out to win.[/QUOTE]

Ali and Frazier were after a 3.5 year ban from boxing. The ban from boxing came after years of boxing. You can like Frazier better. That's fine. Think he's a better boxer? It is a minority opinion. It probably doesn't belong on a thread about Ali's death. So let's let the thread get back to its purpose

 

[puppygenius]

I found this interesting. The is also a short 2 part interview with Joe Frazier.
Muhammad Ali's Success Would Have Been Impossible Without Joe Frazier

While these days Ali is seemingly always portrayed as the “old-school” boxer who also made a tremendous social impact, it was Frazier, in my opinion, who truly exemplified old-school values. Despite being tormented publicly by Ali, Frazier never countered and was a great friend to his nemesis. Frazier gave Ali money to survive after Ali was stripped of his title and barred from boxing for refusing to serve in the Army at the height of the Vietnam War.


Frazier was a friend when no one else would give Ali squat, and advocated for his reinstatement. In return, Ali tormented Frazier by calling him an “Uncle Tom” in the run-up to their first fight in 1971 –about the worse thing one black man can call another black man. For their last fight, “the Thrilla in Manila”, Ali was guaranteed $4.5 million and Frazier $2 million. Ali’s pre-fight marketing included calling Frazier a gorilla.

To begin with the title is a lie, interesting story perhaps, but garbage none the less.

 

[temery]

Been looking for this video. I remember watching it as a kid. It's wonderful now that he is so well thought of on his death. That wasn't the case 50 years ago.

 

[Horatio]

RIP Champ and Thanks

 

[temery]

I think Ali recognized he crossed a line with Frazier, particularly in the run-up to the Thrilla. At that point, though, who could really blame Frazier for wanting nothing to do with him.

I never liked or bought the "I am the greatest" stuff. At his best, possibly. But he did have five losses (granted there at the end of his career).

Ali was at his best outside the ring, when he spoke about and refused to fight in the Vietnam War, and explained why he wouldn't fight in south east Asia.

I remember reading the army initially set his IQ as being in the 70's (borderline "dumb"). Even Ali supposedly admitted he was illiterate. Being illiterate has nothing to do with Intelligence. And if his IQ was in the 70's, that only proves the IQ test is bullsh!t.

Listen to him speak about the war, and about racism in the US. Being "smart" is all about understanding and solving problems. Ali completely understood the problems of his day (racism first, and Vietnam), and did his best to make sure everyone understood.

I dare anyone to watch the first 20 seconds of this clip, and tell me he was anything but "The Greatest" at that very moment. He wasn't boxing, but he was fighting.