OT: Red Sox sign stealing penalty

[tentoes4rings]

You mean the way Big Poppy did when he came over from the Twins? That was more dramatic.

Okay, so let me get your argument straight. David Ortiz going from 20 HR and 75 RBI to 31 and 101 in 43 more at bats in a MUCH better lineup in an electric park where fans actually gave a crap was more dramatic than Gio Urshela who was almost out of baseball after hitting .227 and homering every 83 ABS (6 in 499 ABs) suddenly hitting .315 with 21 HR and 75 RBI? Is that your argument?

 

[David 76]

Boston teams are never guilty of anything. They just get accused a lot.
And when they are proven guilty, everyone else does it too. And they believe this!

 

[mauconnfan]

Mau is completely clueless and baseless in this argument. But it’s fun to watch him try to selectively pick limited points to support his baseless arguments. Not one baseball expert would argue that Betts is not a top 5 player. Yet Mau finds that one stretch in his young career to support an ah-hah moment. By his own ridiculous argument, the entire 2019 Yankee team must have somehow been cheating since they all way over performed their career averages. But no, that would be the ONE time it’s legit. It’s quite comical.

No I'm not and you telling me this proves I'm not. Speaking of Mr Clueless himself! LOL But please continue on with your unbiased opinion so we can laugh during these tough times.


The Red Sox today released this statement.

“As an organization, we strive for 100% compliance with the rules. MLB’s investigation concluded that in isolated instances during the 2018 regular season, sign sequences were decoded through the use of of live game video rather than through permissible means.

“MLB acknowledged the front office’s extensive efforts to communicate and enforce the rules and concluded that Alex Cora, the coaching staff, and most of the players did not engage in, nor were they aware of, any violations. Regardless, these rule violations are unacceptable. We apologize to our fans and Major League Baseball, and accept the Commissioners ruling.”

The most troubling part of this statement is the admission that some of their players did cheat, but MLB, like they did with the Astros, has decided to penalize no players. MLB interviewed 65 Red Sox employees, including 35 past and present players, and for agreeing to be interviewed those players received full immunity. The players should be issuing a statement of apology as well.

Baseball Commissioner Rob Manfred does not exactly come out of this smelling like a rose either. Of course nothing he has done lately has made him look or smell good. Baseball, under his watch, has come out of this cheating scandal with a black eye. The Astros’s black eye will be there for a long, long time. The Red Sox black eye has a chance to fade over time, but never completely go away


Ok so they cheated but the timing was perfect for getting away basically scot-free without penalty from MLB. Ok I'm good with it let's move on at least we know they did cheat despite what some here believe.

 

[mauconnfan]

Boston teams are never guilty of anything. They just get accused a lot.
And when they are proven guilty, everyone else does it too. And they believe this!

This is so so true and obvious to everyone but their fans. Check out all of their favorite teams. But admittedly by far the most consistent ih their efforts and beliefs David!

 

[mauconnfan]

You mean the way Big Poppy did when he came over from the Twins? That was more dramatic.

Suddenly those stats skyrocketed from pretty bland numbers at a very easy place to hit, the heft bag stadium, to being good friends with Manny Ramirez. Wow no way did he do anything! They really do believe this don't try to ruin their isolation.

 

[the Q]

LOL Red Sox fans LOL

Nothing ever wrong in the Nation. 2018 Mookie went from .264 to .346 (.378 at home) because that's what .290 career hitters do jump .82 basis points.

I'm done you're all clean as hell always have been. Heck Manny only did steroids when he was with Cleveland.

Have a good day! Let's talk UConn hoops here please, at least we are close to the same page at times.

Individual cheating like Roids and Peds is far different then premeditated team wide/organization cheating. Not a bad thing to have some back and forth arguing with Boston-NY fans, would rather argue sports then Covid 19.

If they investigated every team in baseball they would find cheating in one sense or another
I have to laugh at the Yankee fans - yeah they are/were lily white with the Steinbrenners at the helm
I'm a Cubs fan but do not care for the Yankees - on a Duke level

MLB found next to nothing with the Sox because they already forced their hand. They had the Astros dead to rights and they let them go. No way they were going to double down and hammer the Sox.

Both, and probably more, were guilty but the MLB were too soft to do anything. Crazy how we go from banning people for life and from the HoF to not even hand slapping for cheating that impacts the outcomes of games.

MLB wanted Boston and the Astros to be the Bonds and Clemens of this situation. Look at the two big bright shiny objects.


Don’t look at him thome over there...

They wanted to tie this around the two biggest targets because it’s the easiest to get people riled up about. They didn’t want to find more.

We know Boston didn’t do it in October and that is really a big reason their penalty needed to be lighter anyway.

But this is like deflate gateIt only was able to happen because of laughable stupid operational work by the league itself.

Mlb should’ve controlled all access to that room from the start, just like the nfl officials should’ve had control of the game balls before kickoff. It’s laughable to think anyone thought either thought these team controlled ideas were actually a good idea at some point in time.

 

[the Q]

This is so so true and obvious to everyone but their fans. Check out all of their favorite teams. But admittedly by far the most consistent ih their efforts and beliefs David!

Red Sox fans are no where near as bad a pats fans.

Sox fans toon their lumps without much crowing for the cherington international free agent fiasco.

The Ortiz thing...it wouldn’t shock me if he was juicing in 03/04 to get that huge contract. But he also passed every single test in his career after that. So either he was always ahead of the testing game, or he did it for his huge score, like Brady Anderson in 96.

 

[the Q]

You guys realize something like 80% of major league players are drafted in the first 2 rounds. This hurts to an extent I thought it would be a first rounder

Especially when the Sox have one of the 5 or so worst farm systems in the game. They really needed to do some selling last July but didn’t tank until it was too late.

 

[Scoe]

Boston teams are never guilty of anything. They just get accused a lot.
And when they are proven guilty, everyone else does it too. And they believe this!

Whaa the Yankees cheat too whaaaaa.

 

[Scoe]

MLB wanted Boston and the Astros to be the Bonds and Clemens of this situation. Look at the two big bright shiny objects.


Don’t look at him thome over there...

They wanted to tie this around the two biggest targets because it’s the easiest to get people riled up about. They didn’t want to find more.

We know Boston didn’t do it in October and that is really a big reason their penalty needed to be lighter anyway.

But this is like deflate gateIt only was able to happen because of laughable stupid operational work by the league itself.

Mlb should’ve controlled all access to that room from the start, just like the nfl officials should’ve had control of the game balls before kickoff. It’s laughable to think anyone thought either thought these team controlled ideas were actually a good idea at some point in time.

Manfred wasnt gonna do anything at all until this was all brought to the public eye, then made BS suspensions to save face. Same thing happened with Roids until Canseco opened his mouth, then Selig and Manfred did something to save face, after covering it up.

 

[mauconnfan]

Red Sox fans are no where near as bad a pats fans.

Sox fans toon their lumps without much crowing for the cherington international free agent fiasco.

The Ortiz thing...it wouldn’t shock me if he was juicing in 03/04 to get that huge contract. But he also passed every single test in his career after that. So either he was always ahead of the testing game, or he did it for his huge score, like Brady Anderson in 96.

Sox fans ARE Pats fans for the most part Q.

And Ortiz passed tests because so did a lot of others who were cheating. Baseball never caught up with what so many were doing. Arod passed tests too we all know how long he was cheating so let's be honest passing tests meant nothing. MLB I am sure wasn't interested in catching up either.

 

[the Q]

Sox fans ARE Pats fans for the most part Q.

And Ortiz passed tests because so did a lot of others who were cheating. Baseball never caught up with what so many were doing. Arod passed tests too we all know how long he was cheating so let's be honest passing tests meant nothing. MLB I am sure wasn't interested in catching up either.

MLb really wanted to take arod down for whatever reason.

They used blackmail and extortion to do it (and somehow suffered zero consquences for it).

 

[mauconnfan]

They used blackmail and extortion to do it (and somehow suffered zero consquences for it).
[/QUOTE]

ARod deserved it to a point but he was singled out for whatever reason. Probably for being a d**k compared to others but still they left other real good players off the charts. Not fair but whatever.

 

[StllH8L8ner]

I think a common misconception that Sox fans continue to push as an argument is that Yankee fans are in love with A-Rod. I defended him for a while bc he seemed like an okay dude when he first came over but now looking back, he wasn't worth the trouble and is a complete toolbag whose entire career can be voided IMO. He broke the rules and paid for it but criticizing him to Yankee fans is like criticizing an ex-girlfriend who we dumped years ago. We've moved on and very few consider him a 'true' Yankee.

Sox fans on the other hand will defend Papi to the death and is still a cult hero even though he tested positive for "something", vowed to find out what it was, and then watched as the allegations disappeared like a fart in the wind (for you Shawshank fans). Papi is on a list of guys who raked after the age of 35 that includes Bonds, McGwire, Palmiero, Juan Gon, Nelson Cruz and...you guessed it A-Rod. Now what do they all have in common??

If Sox fans just admitted that there is about a .001% chance that he DIDN'T juice, I think these debates would subside.

 

[Deuce]

Red Sox fans are no where near as bad a pats fans.

Sox fans toon their lumps without much crowing for the cherington international free agent fiasco.

The Ortiz thing...it wouldn’t shock me if he was juicing in 03/04 to get that huge contract. But he also passed every single test in his career after that. So either he was always ahead of the testing game, or he did it for his huge score, like Brady Anderson in 96.

Red Sox fans ARE Patriots fans. We are one in the same my man

 

[Huskybass]

I think a common misconception that Sox fans continue to push as an argument is that Yankee fans are in love with A-Rod. I defended him for a while bc he seemed like an okay dude when he first came over but now looking back, he wasn't worth the trouble and is a complete toolbag whose entire career can be voided IMO. He broke the rules and paid for it but criticizing him to Yankee fans is like criticizing an ex-girlfriend who we dumped years ago. We've moved on and very few consider him a 'true' Yankee.

Sox fans on the other hand will defend Papi to the death and is still a cult hero even though he tested positive for "something", vowed to find out what it was, and then watched as the allegations disappeared like a fart in the wind (for you Shawshank fans). Papi is on a list of guys who raked after the age of 35 that includes Bonds, McGwire, Palmiero, Juan Gon, Nelson Cruz and...you guessed it A-Rod. Now what do they all have in common??

If Sox fans just admitted that there is about a .001% chance that he DIDN'T juice, I think these debates would subside.

Papi will be in the Hall of Fame soon. The rest of the guys you listed won't.

 

[tentoes4rings]

Red Sox fans ARE Patriots fans. We are one in the same my man

Not true at all. I absolutely love the Sox and hate the Patriots. Plenty of CT people like the Sox but not the Patriots.

 

[Deuce]

Not true at all. I absolutely love the Sox and hate the Patriots. Plenty of CT people like the Sox but not the Patriots.

I understand that man I wasn’t being literal. Just saying I would assume more are fans of both then just 1

 

[Huskybass]

I understand that man I wasn’t being literal. Just saying I would assume more are fans of both then just 1

Guilty as charged.

 

[Excalibur]

Red Sox fans ARE Patriots fans. We are one in the same my man

Don't lump this Sox fan in with fans of a bad franchise from a minor league. I can't wait for the pro football equilibrium to be restored. It's coming very soon.

 

[StllH8L8ner]

Not true at all. I absolutely love the Sox and hate the Patriots. Plenty of CT people like the Sox but not the Patriots.

I'm actually the exact opposite. Yanks and Pats fan. People think I'm out my mind and a bandwagoner but you grow up in central CT, it happens. I've lived through plenty of bad seasons for each team.

 

[tentoes4rings]

I understand that man I wasn’t being literal. Just saying I would assume more are fans of both then just 1

I understand. And probably the main reason I dislike your team is due to my team losing two Super Bowls to them and envy.

I’ve tried to explain to friends in other parts of the country the passion fans in New England (Northern CT up) have for the Sox by saying some people are Celtics fans, some are Bruins fans, some are Pats fans, but EVERYONE is a Sox fan. This was truer before the Pats 20 year run of course.

 

[StllH8L8ner]

Papi will be in the Hall of Fame soon. The rest of the guys you listed won't.

Don't be so sure. Baseball writers have a funny way of determining players' roles in the steroid era.

 

[HooperScooper]

This is an interesting statistics based article about sign stealing from 2nd base, what the Sox were kind of accused of by MLB. Doesn't come to any conclusions.

The 2018 Red Sox hit a league-leading .292 with runners on second base, the highest average in such situations since the 2013 Cardinals hit .326. (The 2019 Yankees surpassed the Sox’ mark, hitting .303.) The team’s .484 slugging percentage in such moments was second-best in baseball.

Without a runner on second, the Sox were still very good but not exceptional: .262 average, .446 slugging, both top-five marks in baseball.

How much did the Red Sox benefit from the rules violations of 2018? - The Boston Globe

Their offensive numbers improved with a runner on second, but not to an outrageous degree.

www.bostonglobe.com

 

[dennismenace]

I remember the 1986 World Series while at UConn. The Yankee fans mostly sided with the Mets fans, creating a 50-50 split across campus. It was crazy. Connecticut is just like that about these teams.

Bleeding Kansas