OT Rangers-Caps fight

[BigErnMcCracken]

“For a long time”

Okay, great. Every other sport has moved on from this. Football doesn’t tolerate it, basketball doesn’t tolerate it, soccer never tolerated it, baseball will do more than fine 5k for the baseball equivalent of punching a guy’s face in to solid ice. It’s stupid, it’s lame, it should be unbecoming, nobody needs it.

But yeah I’m the one dying on a hill lol

No, not "every other sport has moved on from this," because no other sport had it. That doesn't make sense. You might think it's dumb or "nobody needs it" but I guarantee you that among people who know and love the game the vast majority of people think it still has a place. If it's not your thing you'd think you just wouldn't watch it - people can have different tastes.

Edit: no disrespect to box lacrosse. They have fighting too. But no one watches that.

 

[superjohn]

No, not "every other sport has moved on from this," because no other sport had it. That doesn't make sense. You might think it's dumb or "nobody needs it" but I guarantee you that among people who know and love the game the vast majority of people think it still has a place. If it's not your thing you'd think you just wouldn't watch it - people can have different tastes.

Edit: no disrespect to box lacrosse. They have fighting too. But no one watches that.

I love box lacrosse, we might be the only two people who know what it is.

 

[Rocktheworld]

No, not "every other sport has moved on from this," because no other sport had it. That doesn't make sense. You might think it's dumb or "nobody needs it" but I guarantee you that among people who know and love the game the vast majority of people think it still has a place. If it's not your thing you'd think you just wouldn't watch it - people can have different tastes.

Edit: no disrespect to box lacrosse. They have fighting too. But no one watches that.

Who’s dying on a hill now lol

Can anyone here actually lay out the concrete “place” that extraneous fighting has? The “hurr durr well it’s always been around” argument isn’t convincing; although it’s been grand seeing several iterations of it now.

 

[karstenkibbe]

I love box lacrosse, we might be the only two people who know what it is.

Three. Loved me some late ‘80s MILL.

 

[mussels]

If it's not your thing you'd think you just wouldn't watch it - people can have different tastes.

Is it really that simple? Some people enjoy dog fighting. If it’s not your thing, just don’t watch it - right ?

It’s not the same thing, you say. Dogs have no choice, and have to be protected from exploitation. But a 19 year old kid from a hard scrabble background has the choice of saying no to a pile of money. Right.

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

Is it really that simple? Some people enjoy dog fighting. If it’s not your thing, just don’t watch it - right ?

It’s not the same thing, you say. Dogs have no choice, and have to be protected from exploitation. But a 19 year old kid from a hard scrabble background has the choice of saying no to a pile of money. Right.

Huh? Yeah, if you don't like hockey don't watch it.

If you're a 19 year old kid from a "hardscrabble background" and someone says you can either make a living playing minor league hockey but you'll have to fight or you can make a living digging ditches then that's a choice they have to make. I'm not sure how much you know about hockey but the "piles of money" go to the kids who don't have to fight to make the roster. But, again, if it's not your thing it's not your thing. That's fine. This idea that we have to get rid of something because not everyone likes it is dumb.

 

[mussels]

Huh? Yeah, if you don't like hockey don't watch it.

If you're a 19 year old kid from a "hardscrabble background" and someone says you can either make a living playing minor league hockey but you'll have to fight or you can make a living digging ditches then that's a choice they have to make. I'm not sure how much you know about hockey but the "piles of money" go to the kids who don't have to fight to make the roster. But, again, if it's not your thing it's not your thing. That's fine. This idea that we have to get rid of something because not everyone likes it is dumb.

Hockey doesn’t equal fighting. You can enjoy hockey (see olympics and college) without fighting. The idea that we should stop what would generally considered a violent crime if it happened off the ice is not dumb.

 

[superjohn]

Huh? Yeah, if you don't like hockey don't watch it.

If you're a 19 year old kid from a "hardscrabble background" and someone says you can either make a living playing minor league hockey but you'll have to fight or you can make a living digging ditches then that's a choice they have to make. I'm not sure how much you know about hockey but the "piles of money" go to the kids who don't have to fight to make the roster. But, again, if it's not your thing it's not your thing. That's fine. This idea that we have to get rid of something because not everyone likes it is dumb.

I'm surprised you took the time to respond. Dude brought up dog fighting, lol

 

[superjohn]

Hockey doesn’t equal fighting. You can enjoy hockey (see olympics and college) without fighting. The idea that we should stop what would generally considered a violent crime if it happened off the ice is not dumb.

Body checking people on the street would be considered a violent crime too. When you're bringing up dog fighting and comparing sports to what is generally allowed on the sidewalk it might be time for bed.

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

Hockey doesn’t equal fighting. You can enjoy hockey (see olympics and college) without fighting. The idea that we should stop what would generally considered a violent crime if it happened off the ice is not dumb.

That's battery. What point are you possibly making?

 

[mussels]

That's battery. What point are you possibly making?

That's battery. What point are you possibly making?

Tackling in football and checking in hockey (and yes beating a guy unconscious in boxing) would be considered a crime on the street, but they’re within the rules of the game. Cold cocking a guy on the ice, or the football field, or kneeing a guy in the balls In the ring aren’t, and shouldn’t be condoned as “part of the game”.

 

[Rocktheworld]

Tackling in football and checking in hockey (and yes beating a guy unconscious in boxing) would be considered a crime on the street, but they’re within the rules of the game. Cold cocking a guy on the ice, or the football field, or kneeing a guy in the balls In the ring aren’t, and shouldn’t be condoned as “part of the game”.

To be fair, you could have phrased your point better; but I think a lot of people are struggling and conflating “tacitly condoned culture of x” and “x is part of the game”.

 

[August_West]

Hockey doesn’t equal fighting. You can enjoy hockey (see olympics and college) without fighting. The idea that we should stop what would generally considered a violent crime if it happened off the ice is not dumb.

Do you watch boxing?

 

[mussels]

Do you watch boxing?

I think the last full fight I watched was Holmes-Norton. Why?

 

[FriarJ]

Who’s dying on a hill now lol

Can anyone here actually lay out the concrete “place” that extraneous fighting has? The “hurr durr well it’s always been around” argument isn’t convincing; although it’s been grand seeing several iterations of it now.

He already laid it out for you. Hockey is a fast sport and the boards make it inherently dangerous. Little cheap shots can lead to significant injuries. Fighting allows teams to police this behavior themselves. You may not like it, you may not agree with it and you certainly don't have to watch it. But there is your answer.

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

To be fair, you could have phrased your point better; but I think a lot of people are struggling and conflating “tacitly condoned culture of x” and “x is part of the game”.

No, I don't think that's what's happening. I think what's happening is that people who by their own admission don't watch or like hockey are telling people who do follow the sport about what is or is not a part of it. It's very weird. Again, you don't have to like it, or understand it, or watch it, but to say that it's not part of the game is just really freaking strange. Ask a guy like Ryan Reaves if fighting is not part of the sport. If it was banned tomorrow he'd literally be unemployed.

The role of fighting has been explained multiple times by multiple people. No one has said it's part of the game only because "it's always been around."

 

[Hey Adrien!]

Fighting in the NHL has gotten so much “better”.

Almost all of the “big guy vs big guy for no reason” died off 10 years ago. That fighting is stupid and I never liked it.

A fight that is a reactionary response to a player defending themselves or their teammates is the “right kind” of hockey fighting. If you choose to do this, this is my response. That type of fighting is part of the culture and will never go away.

That’s why I loved Smith going after Wilson.

The fight at the beginning of the game was dumb. The two fights after the Smith/Wilson fights were awkward and weren’t needed.

 

[Palatine]

Agree on that point. Nothing preplanned, however, about that awesome old-school cross check to the face of Mantha by Buchnevich! Sadly, he will end up with the biggest punishment in this entire saga.

The stick across the head of Manta was the worst event of the entire two games. I should be punished.

 

[Rocktheworld]

He already laid it out for you. Hockey is a fast sport and the boards make it inherently dangerous. Little cheap shots can lead to significant injuries. Fighting allows teams to police this behavior themselves. You may not like it, you may not agree with it and you certainly don't have to watch it. But there is your answer.

What a pathetic response. The idea of jumping 10 feet in the air at full speed not knowing exactly how you’re going to come down with four other people running/standing near you on a hard wood floor isn’t the safest either. Running across a football field as a slot receiver is similarly dangerous. But those other sports have taken measures to control extraneous interactions between players as in basketball (and to a lesser extent football), and/or changed the rules to make things safer such as in football. There are ways to control self-policing or police it better yourself to take it out of the players’ hands. Every sport is better for not having self-policing and fights.

 

[Rocktheworld]

No, I don't think that's what's happening. I think what's happening is that people who by their own admission don't watch or like hockey are telling people who do follow the sport about what is or is not a part of it. It's very weird. Again, you don't have to like it, or understand it, or watch it, but to say that it's not part of the game is just really freaking strange. Ask a guy like Ryan Reaves if fighting is not part of the sport. If it was banned tomorrow he'd literally be unemployed.

The role of fighting has been explained multiple times by multiple people. No one has said it's part of the game only because "it's always been around."

Maybe homeboy can try MMA if he’s such a fighter who can’t actually play hockey.

And yes, the arguments have been been variations of a facile “it’s about self-policing and it’s always been around”.

 

[Scoe]

What a pathetic response. The idea of jumping 10 feet in the air at full speed not knowing exactly how you’re going to come down with four other people running/standing near you on a hard wood floor isn’t the safest either. Running across a football field as a slot receiver is similarly dangerous. But those other sports have taken measures to control extraneous interactions between players as in basketball (and to a lesser extent football), and/or changed the rules to make things safer such as in football. There are ways to control self-policing or police it better yourself to take it out of the players’ hands. Every sport is better for not having self-policing and fights.

Ladies and gentleman there you have it the opinion of authority right there, I'm sure the canadiens will look into your thoughts.

 

[Martin]

Hockey has always been a freaking joke commish after commish. Its a joke how they don’t look out for players. I also freaking love hockey.

 

[Scoe]

Hockey has always been a freaking joke commish after commish. Its a joke how they don’t look out for players. I also freaking love hockey.

Until this comes back , the NHL will always be a joke.

 

[karstenkibbe]

Until this comes back , the NHL will always be a joke.

From your lips to Blaine Stoughton/God’s ears.

 

[Rocktheworld]

Ladies and gentleman there you have it the opinion of authority right there, I'm sure the canadiens will look into your thoughts.

You don’t have a UConn degree, do you?

 

[Scoe]

You don’t have a UConn degree, do you?

I have my degrees how is that even relevant to this thread.

 

[Scoe]

Of course you gotta have a Mcafee break down on this.

 

[Spaceman213J]

I'll admit that I'm not a die hard fan, but for me, the punch to the back of head on a guy who is completely defenseless and went down in an extremely awkward position is reprehensible. Wilson defending himself and slamming the guy, goon or not, is understandable.

 

[FriarJ]

What a pathetic response. The idea of jumping 10 feet in the air at full speed not knowing exactly how you’re going to come down with four other people running/standing near you on a hard wood floor isn’t the safest either. Running across a football field as a slot receiver is similarly dangerous. But those other sports have taken measures to control extraneous interactions between players as in basketball (and to a lesser extent football), and/or changed the rules to make things safer such as in football. There are ways to control self-policing or police it better yourself to take it out of the players’ hands. Every sport is better for not having self-policing and fights.

Pathetic? LOL, lose an edge and see how that goes. You played hockey? You are fos. We have explained it to you over and over and over again. You don’t agree? No one cares. Hockey is a special sport, your loss for not recognizing it.

 

[CL82]

Back in the day most teams had their "goons."

“Calling me a goon?! Them’s fighting words!”

(Ironically, Schultz was a scorer in the minors, but as you point out, everything needed to have a designated goon. That was Dave’s gig.”)