OT Rangers-Caps fight

[Hey Adrien!]

Buchnevich got a one-game suspension after his cross-check to Mantha.

Glad to hear the Bruins tonight will be saved from the over-the-line antics of goons like Buchnevich.

 

[superjohn]

It perplexes me to no end when I observe it, but don’t worry; not losing sleep over this.

Think you could delineate how it is a “great” tradition? Like if hockey was never played again after today, what would you tell your grandkids

“And they interrupted play constantly to fight! In fact for most of the sport’s history, guys who couldn’t even play particularly well were recruited just to fight! No, it had no impact on the game itself but man, what a tradition...

...

...

And that, Johnny, is why extraneous fighting was such a critical and great part of watching professional athletes play hockey.”

It's always had a huge impact on the game. I'm sure people will have those conversations with "Johnny" telling him about how there used to be hitting in football and basketball players used to foul each other hard when they came down the lane and they weren't ejected, superstars threw punches at each other and it wasn't the end of the world. It only added to the strategy/action/drama of the sport.

 

[Rocktheworld]

It's always had a huge impact on the game. I'm sure people will have those conversations with "Johnny" telling him about how there used to be hitting in football and basketball players used to foul each other hard when they came down the lane and they weren't ejected, superstars threw punches at each other and it wasn't the end of the world. It only added to the strategy/action/drama of the sport.

Fighting added to strategy of a sport LMAOOO yeah the NBA got rid of hard fouling and obviously fights because they saw that it didn’t belong in professional sports.

I think I’m good now you all have a good thread

 

[mussels]

Haven't watched hockey in the last couple of decades, but back in the day, the playoffs were like a whole different sport. Playoff hockey was way better than the regular season, and for the most part had little to no fighting; so the notion that somehow fighting is integral to the game is nonsense. Has that changed ?

Have read several accounts of former enforcer/goons. Many of these guys couldn't make it on skills alone, so their only road to a NHL paycheck was with their fists. They generally don't feel good about it, and the stories I've read include CTE, depression, drug addiction, homelessness, and suicide. Buy hey - fighting gets the crowd going, and keeps the cash register ringing.

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

Fighting added to strategy of a sport

Weird hill to die on. For a long time fighting was a way to police misconduct in the sport. If you took a run at another team's best skill guy, you were gonna get pummeled or your team's tough guy was gonna get pummeled. If your team was sluggish and uninspired your tough guy was going to fight someone to fire up your team. These are, to me, unimpeachable truths about the game. It's much, much less prevalent now - the game is more about speed and skill and less about hitting and violence - but it's still around. It seems odd to deny that it's inextricably bound up with the sport.

 

[Rocktheworld]

Weird hill to die on. For a long time fighting was a way to police misconduct in the sport. If you took a run at another team's best skill guy, you were gonna get pummeled or your team's tough guy was gonna get pummeled. If your team was sluggish and uninspired your tough guy was going to fight someone to fire up your team. These are, to me, unimpeachable truths about the game. It's much, much less prevalent now - the game is more about speed and skill and less about hitting and violence - but it's still around. It seems odd to deny that it's inextricably bound up with the sport.

“For a long time”

Okay, great. Every other sport has moved on from this. Football doesn’t tolerate it, basketball doesn’t tolerate it, soccer never tolerated it, baseball will do more than fine 5k for the baseball equivalent of punching a guy’s face in to solid ice. It’s stupid, it’s lame, it should be unbecoming, nobody needs it.

But yeah I’m the one dying on a hill lol

 

[superjohn]

Fighting added to strategy of a sport LMAOOO yeah the NBA got rid of hard fouling and obviously fights because they saw that it didn’t belong in professional sports.

I think I’m good now you all have a good thread

Of course it added to strategy.

 

[Rocktheworld]

Of course it added to strategy.

And that is incredibly stupid.

 

[formerlurker]

I'm a Rangers fan and it was a sideshow a few days late. Appreciate the effort but we got our asses beat in every single glove drop.

I'm no hockey expert but I know what type of crew to roll with. We're missing a few pieces of armor that protect the village's craftsmen. I'm afraid to criticize Dolan in case it leads to him screwing up a fantastic Knicks season. But I agree with his drastic moves and think Chris Drury is the right man at the right time.

 

[superjohn]

And that is incredibly stupid.

At least you are now conceding the point.

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

“For a long time”

Okay, great. Every other sport has moved on from this. Football doesn’t tolerate it, basketball doesn’t tolerate it, soccer never tolerated it, baseball will do more than fine 5k for the baseball equivalent of punching a guy’s face in to solid ice. It’s stupid, it’s lame, it should be unbecoming, nobody needs it.

But yeah I’m the one dying on a hill lol

No, not "every other sport has moved on from this," because no other sport had it. That doesn't make sense. You might think it's dumb or "nobody needs it" but I guarantee you that among people who know and love the game the vast majority of people think it still has a place. If it's not your thing you'd think you just wouldn't watch it - people can have different tastes.

Edit: no disrespect to box lacrosse. They have fighting too. But no one watches that.

 

[superjohn]

No, not "every other sport has moved on from this," because no other sport had it. That doesn't make sense. You might think it's dumb or "nobody needs it" but I guarantee you that among people who know and love the game the vast majority of people think it still has a place. If it's not your thing you'd think you just wouldn't watch it - people can have different tastes.

Edit: no disrespect to box lacrosse. They have fighting too. But no one watches that.

I love box lacrosse, we might be the only two people who know what it is.

 

[Rocktheworld]

No, not "every other sport has moved on from this," because no other sport had it. That doesn't make sense. You might think it's dumb or "nobody needs it" but I guarantee you that among people who know and love the game the vast majority of people think it still has a place. If it's not your thing you'd think you just wouldn't watch it - people can have different tastes.

Edit: no disrespect to box lacrosse. They have fighting too. But no one watches that.

Who’s dying on a hill now lol

Can anyone here actually lay out the concrete “place” that extraneous fighting has? The “hurr durr well it’s always been around” argument isn’t convincing; although it’s been grand seeing several iterations of it now.

 

[karstenkibbe]

I love box lacrosse, we might be the only two people who know what it is.

Three. Loved me some late ‘80s MILL.

 

[mussels]

If it's not your thing you'd think you just wouldn't watch it - people can have different tastes.

Is it really that simple? Some people enjoy dog fighting. If it’s not your thing, just don’t watch it - right ?

It’s not the same thing, you say. Dogs have no choice, and have to be protected from exploitation. But a 19 year old kid from a hard scrabble background has the choice of saying no to a pile of money. Right.

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

Is it really that simple? Some people enjoy dog fighting. If it’s not your thing, just don’t watch it - right ?

It’s not the same thing, you say. Dogs have no choice, and have to be protected from exploitation. But a 19 year old kid from a hard scrabble background has the choice of saying no to a pile of money. Right.

Huh? Yeah, if you don't like hockey don't watch it.

If you're a 19 year old kid from a "hardscrabble background" and someone says you can either make a living playing minor league hockey but you'll have to fight or you can make a living digging ditches then that's a choice they have to make. I'm not sure how much you know about hockey but the "piles of money" go to the kids who don't have to fight to make the roster. But, again, if it's not your thing it's not your thing. That's fine. This idea that we have to get rid of something because not everyone likes it is dumb.

 

[mussels]

Huh? Yeah, if you don't like hockey don't watch it.

If you're a 19 year old kid from a "hardscrabble background" and someone says you can either make a living playing minor league hockey but you'll have to fight or you can make a living digging ditches then that's a choice they have to make. I'm not sure how much you know about hockey but the "piles of money" go to the kids who don't have to fight to make the roster. But, again, if it's not your thing it's not your thing. That's fine. This idea that we have to get rid of something because not everyone likes it is dumb.

Hockey doesn’t equal fighting. You can enjoy hockey (see olympics and college) without fighting. The idea that we should stop what would generally considered a violent crime if it happened off the ice is not dumb.

 

[superjohn]

Huh? Yeah, if you don't like hockey don't watch it.

If you're a 19 year old kid from a "hardscrabble background" and someone says you can either make a living playing minor league hockey but you'll have to fight or you can make a living digging ditches then that's a choice they have to make. I'm not sure how much you know about hockey but the "piles of money" go to the kids who don't have to fight to make the roster. But, again, if it's not your thing it's not your thing. That's fine. This idea that we have to get rid of something because not everyone likes it is dumb.

I'm surprised you took the time to respond. Dude brought up dog fighting, lol

 

[superjohn]

Hockey doesn’t equal fighting. You can enjoy hockey (see olympics and college) without fighting. The idea that we should stop what would generally considered a violent crime if it happened off the ice is not dumb.

Body checking people on the street would be considered a violent crime too. When you're bringing up dog fighting and comparing sports to what is generally allowed on the sidewalk it might be time for bed.

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

Hockey doesn’t equal fighting. You can enjoy hockey (see olympics and college) without fighting. The idea that we should stop what would generally considered a violent crime if it happened off the ice is not dumb.

That's battery. What point are you possibly making?

 

[mussels]

That's battery. What point are you possibly making?

That's battery. What point are you possibly making?

Tackling in football and checking in hockey (and yes beating a guy unconscious in boxing) would be considered a crime on the street, but they’re within the rules of the game. Cold cocking a guy on the ice, or the football field, or kneeing a guy in the balls In the ring aren’t, and shouldn’t be condoned as “part of the game”.

 

[Rocktheworld]

Tackling in football and checking in hockey (and yes beating a guy unconscious in boxing) would be considered a crime on the street, but they’re within the rules of the game. Cold cocking a guy on the ice, or the football field, or kneeing a guy in the balls In the ring aren’t, and shouldn’t be condoned as “part of the game”.

To be fair, you could have phrased your point better; but I think a lot of people are struggling and conflating “tacitly condoned culture of x” and “x is part of the game”.

 

[August_West]

Hockey doesn’t equal fighting. You can enjoy hockey (see olympics and college) without fighting. The idea that we should stop what would generally considered a violent crime if it happened off the ice is not dumb.

Do you watch boxing?

 

[mussels]

Do you watch boxing?

I think the last full fight I watched was Holmes-Norton. Why?

 

[FriarJ]

Who’s dying on a hill now lol

Can anyone here actually lay out the concrete “place” that extraneous fighting has? The “hurr durr well it’s always been around” argument isn’t convincing; although it’s been grand seeing several iterations of it now.

He already laid it out for you. Hockey is a fast sport and the boards make it inherently dangerous. Little cheap shots can lead to significant injuries. Fighting allows teams to police this behavior themselves. You may not like it, you may not agree with it and you certainly don't have to watch it. But there is your answer.