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OT-Promise last giants post.

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And here's a ranking of the NFL GMs from the Sporting News after the 2015 season. Reese is 16.

http://www.sportingnews.com/list/46...ider-ozzie-newsome-bill-belichick-jerry-jones
Thanks for proving my point, a guy who gets bump for having 2 SBs (one he can thank Acorsi for) is ranked 16th. 10 of those guys new and completely unproven and cannot be ranked. So he is a bottom tier GM based on what he has done.

GMs drafting ranked:

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/rating-general-managers-in-the-nfl-draft/

Is last good?

Clearly you strive for mediocrity.

Oh, and that same publications ranks Tommy C 7th best coach: http://www.sportingnews.com/list/46...-kelly-garrett-mccarthy-harbaugh/slide/331992

But yea they fired the right guy.
 
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intlzncster

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This offseason is make or break for Reese, so maybe he'll be aggressive in FA. They have cap room. Time to make something happen.

I don't know if I'm in the minority, or that my opinion matters much, but I think FA (not including UDFAs) is the most overrated part of team building.

Most important thing in the NFL is managing cap space, so you can get that breadth and depth of talent. It also allows you to resign the guys you do have; there's no talent you can evaluate (for both skillset and scheme fit) more effectively than your own, so keeping free cap space is paramount.

1. Therefore, hitting in the draft, and developing your own players is number one. That's how you get cost effective talent. eg, the Patriots aren't paying much for Chandler Jones, Donte Hightower, and Jamie Collins right now, 3 of their top five defenders and a large reason why they're well positioned to make a good run at a Super Bowl. Managing the draft includes collecting as many picks (assets) as possible, both by trading down (rarely trading up) and from compensatory picks, and taking the best player available. This allows for stockpiling young talent, having chips for the future, and having chips to trade for good mid level acquisitions early in the season from other teams (buy high sell low).

2. Next up is retaining your own talent. As I said before, there aren't any players you can evaluate and project better than your own. If you manage number 1 above, you should have available cap to do so.

2a. Corollary: Never, ever overpay for your own talent. Quickest way to sink a team. Much better to let them walk and collect those compensatory picks I mentioned above.

3. UDFAs. Hitting on draft picks is one thing, but as everyone knows, the draft is a very inexact science. So hard to project guys to the pro level. That's why you need to have a really strong scouting department to really lock down quality and quantity in the UDFA markets. The more young players (opportunities) you sign, the greater the chance you have of finding a player. A big part of this is spending time with guys who might not be drafted PRIOR to the draft. These guys remember this and are likely to sign with you afterwards.

4. Vet Free Agency: this is the least important thing imo, and one you do not want to waste too much money on. As I mentioned before, cap space is paramount, and free agency (except at lower levels) will kill your cap space, like none other. You almost always overpay for free agent talent. Listen, teams let guys go for a reason: they are not worth the money that they are asking. They are the best at evaluating their own talent, and they've determined this to be the case. So why would you want to overpay for one of these players. The one caveat would be a guy who's been grossly miscast in another position/scheme. You might want to take a shot that he'll fit yours better. It's like the stock market: buy low, sell high. Find a talented guy who has underperformed in other places for whatever reason, low ball it, and hope you hit. Low risk, high reward.

And even though you can evaluate veteran players skill at the NFL level, you can't necessarily evaluate how well they'll fit your scheme, unless their prior teams run something very similar to your own. So there's still risk there.

None of the rules apply to Quarterbacks though. Whole different topic. No idea if anyone is going to read this. lol
 
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Honest question - after Beckham and Eli...who do you think is the 3rd best player on the giants? (I know...it's ugly..)

Crazy huh when you think about that? Wow, tough call. Pugh? Collins, Prince when healthy, Cromartie? Yikes
 

intlzncster

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You also build that depth on small signing FA's which he may be worse on than the draft. Easy to sign good big money players, like DRC,

Exactly.

As an addendum to my post above, I think Reese overpaid for Ayers and Vereen (whom I absolutely LOVE as a player). Contrast Vereen to what BB did to replace him. Stockpiled two cheap free agents (Lewis and Travaris Cadet), and drafted a young guy in in the 4th round (James White); got multiple guys to see who pans out. Lewis is the ultimate example of buy low. He was a great find, dynamic as they come. Although you could argue against it because of his current IR status. But that's where they had James White as another dirt cheap replacement already on the roster and in the program. (aside: all 3 of these guys came down to great scouting: hired Lombardi, who had familiarity w Lewis in Cleveland; joint practices w the Saints allowed them to get a long look at Cadet; and former assistant Bill Obrien at PSU got a good look at White)

Now Vereen is a talent, that is for sure, and represented a great low cost piece out of the draft, but is his production really worth the money? Especially given you could have had Lewis, White and Cadet for less? I say no.

To top it all off, the Patriots will get a quality compensatory pick for Vereen. That's how you team build.
 
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KembaStepback

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I don't know if I'm in the minority, or that my opinion matters much, but I think FA (not including UDFAs) is the most overrated part of team building.

Most important thing in the NFL is managing cap space, so you can get that breadth and depth of talent. It also allows you to resign the guys you do have; there's no talent you can evaluate (for both skillset and scheme fit) more effectively than your own, so keeping free cap space is paramount.

1. Therefore, hitting in the draft, and developing your own players is number one. That's how you get cost effective talent. eg, the Patriots aren't paying much for Chandler Jones, Donte Hightower, and Jamie Collins right now, 3 of their top five defenders and a large reason why they're well positioned to make a good run at a Super Bowl. Managing the draft includes collecting as many picks (assets) as possible, both by trading down (rarely trading up) and from compensatory picks, and taking the best player available. This allows for stockpiling young talent, having chips for the future, and having chips to trade for good mid level acquisitions early in the season from other teams (buy high sell low).

2. Next up is retaining your own talent. As I said before, there aren't any players you can evaluate and project better than your own. If you manage number 1 above, you should have available cap to do so.

2a. Corollary: Never, ever overpay for your own talent. Quickest way to sink a team. Much better to let them walk and collect those compensatory picks I mentioned above.

3. UDFAs. Hitting on draft picks is one thing, but as everyone knows, the draft is a very inexact science. So hard to project guys to the pro level. That's why you need to have a really strong scouting department to really lock down quality and quantity in the UDFA markets. The more young players (opportunities) you sign, the greater the chance you have of finding a player. A big part of this is spending time with guys who might not be drafted PRIOR to the draft. These guys remember this and are likely to sign with you afterwards.

4. Vet Free Agency: this is the least important thing imo, and one you do not want to waste too much money on. As I mentioned before, cap space is paramount, and free agency (except at lower levels) will kill your cap space, like none other. You almost always overpay for free agent talent. Listen, teams let guys go for a reason: they are not worth the money that they are asking. They are the best at evaluating their own talent, and they've determined this to be the case. So why would you want to overpay for one of these players. The one caveat would be a guy who's been grossly miscast in another position/scheme. You might want to take a shot that he'll fit yours better. It's like the stock market: buy low, sell high. Find a talented guy who has underperformed in other places for whatever reason, low ball it, and hope you hit. Low risk, high reward.

And even though you can evaluate veteran players skill at the NFL level, you can't necessarily evaluate how well they'll fit your scheme, unless their prior teams run something very similar to your own. So there's still risk there.

None of the rules apply to Quarterbacks though. Whole different topic. No idea if anyone is going to read this. lol
I tend to agree that FA isn't always a solution and that it generally isn't a huge problem solver. However, this team needs a complete overhaul. Before cutting some of these guys and renegotiating some contracts. the giants have $42 million in cap room. That's a LOT of money. Most likely after they cut the likes of Beatty, Beason, etc. It'll be over $50 million. That's good for some star power as well is filling in with depth. I agree that the draft is VERY important. The Giants have been unlucky and awful when it comes to the draft, which is a terrible combination.
 

KembaStepback

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Crazy huh when you think about that? Wow, tough call. Pugh? Collins, Prince when healthy, Cromartie? Yikes
It's bad. Vereen maybe? I like flowers too. DRC? it's tough. Either way it's ugly.
 
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Ritchburg was the highest graded center in the league this season. He is the 3rd best player.

Vereen ticked me off against the Eagles, thought he should have made a better "defensive" play on the tipped pass that became a pick 6. But he's a nice piece, good player. He actually also loses his impact with just one receiver to worry about. Hopefully that changes next year.
 

KembaStepback

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Ritchburg was the highest graded center in the league this season. He is the 3rd best player.
I didn't realize that. I like Richburg. If he's the 3rd - who's next.

The point remains that the roster is a train-wreck.
 
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I didn't realize that. I like Richburg. If he's the 3rd - who's next.

The point remains that the roster is a train-wreck.
100% agree the roster is a mess. 4th? Maybe JPP, still think he has the most talent of anyone else. DRC or Hankins after that maybe.
 
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going off on a little tangent here, but the mention of Vereen in recent posts reminds me of why some of this is on OC McAdoo as well., He didn't use Vereen anywhere near as much as he should have. McAdoo's offense is also being credited with Eli's great numbers the last 2 years, and sure, his stats have been very good, but this year's touchdown efficiency in the red zone was 29th in the nfl. Ahead of 3 teams with bad qb's, Dallas, San Fran and Cleveland. His play calling inside the 20 was often mind boggling.
 
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going off on a little tangent here, but the mention of Vereen in recent posts reminds me of why some of this is on OC McAdoo as well., He didn't use Vereen anywhere near as much as he should have. McAdoo's offense is also being credited with Eli's great numbers the last 2 years, and sure, his stats have been very good, but this year's touchdown efficiency in the red zone was 29th in the nfl. Ahead of 3 teams with bad qb's, Dallas, San Fran and Cleveland. His play calling inside the 20 was often mind boggling.

Good point, but remember that Coughlin's hands were all over the offense as well. The good news is we never have to hear that "Coughlin calls it the greeen zone" again.
 
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How about Coughlin giving Mara the proverbial bird here. ahahhah



Wow that's screwed up huh? Something behind the scenes there. Probably pi**ed that Reese is staying, the guy who helped drive him out.
 
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they are saying that McAdoo is under consideration for head coach......UHHHHH okay....
 
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