OT: Pete Rose Bet as a Player

[HuskyFich]

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_...ines-shows-pete-rose-bet-baseball-player-1986

"The documents are copies of pages from a notebook seized from the home of former Rose associate Michael Bertolini during a raid by the U.S. Postal Inspection Service in October 1989, nearly two months after Rose was declared permanently ineligible by Major League Baseball. Their authenticity has been verified by two people who took part in the raid, which was part of a mail fraud investigation and unrelated to gambling. For 26 years, the notebook has remained under court-ordered seal and is currently stored in the National Archives' New York office, where officials have declined requests to release it publicly.

Rose, through his lawyer, Raymond Genco, declined comment. Bertolini's lawyer, Nicholas De Feis, said his client is "not interested in speaking to anyone about these issues."

 

[sammydabiz]

Betting or no betting

Charlie Hustle is one of my favorite baseball players of all time. Cooperstown will remain a joke (in my eyes) until this man is inducted, few, if any played the game better that Pete.

 

[Catsailor]

Say what you will about his skills and hustle between the lines. The guy is still a major punk and should never ever be inducted in the HOF. And because a few other bad apples are in does nothing to argue his merit. He's a punk and a gambler and epically egomeniacal to a Nixonian degree. "Stupid is what stupid does". What he did was really, really, really, stupid!

https://search.yahoo.com/yhs/search...st+gump&ei=UTF-8&hspart=mozilla&hsimp=yhs-003

 

[Obrero]

Betting or no betting

Charlie Hustle is one of my favorite baseball players of all time. Cooperstown will remain a joke (in my eyes) until this man is inducted, few, if any played the game better that Pete.

You can't be serious. If this is what they're saying it is- hard evidence of Rose betting on baseball as a player, repeatedly, and involved with known mobsters- then there is no way on earth he can be put in the hall of fame. THAT would make MLB an absolute joke.

 

[mauconnfan]

If he bet while he was playing he can't get in - ever. I thought he deserved to be with the info on him being as a coach but not on or against his team, at some point at least. But if this is all true, he is never going to see Cooperstown and rightfully so.

 

[8893]

If go to the Hall of Fame, you will see that Pete Rose is not banned at all. He's all over the place throughout because of the records he holds. He just doesn't have a bust in the actual Hall of Fame part of the Hall of Fame, which I think is appropriate, seeing as it was the deal me made.

 

[nomar]

The guy is a pathological liar. He's had so many opportunities to do a full mea culpa and make it easy for MLB to ease him back in. He's allergic to the truth. I really don't feel bad for him.

 

[sammydabiz]

If one of the best players to ever play the game cannot be inducted into the HOF, what does the HOF stand for? Is it only reserved for the best baseballs players who also exhibited good character?
Let's take a look at some of those inductees who displayed exemplary character:

Ty Cobb: also known as the Georgia Peach, he was often painted a racist and had numerous documented altercations with African-Americans off the field, including one that led to a charge of attempted murder.Cobb, along with his fellow Hall of Famer Tris Speaker, was also implicated in a game-fixing scheme. Several researchers have written that Cobb and Speaker were members of the Ku Klux Klan, although that has never been conclusively verified.

Cap Anson (HOF '39): the Chicago Cubs first baseman and manager Anson repeatedly refused to take the field if the opposing roster included black players. His contemporary influence and prestige are regarded by historians as playing a major role in establishing the racial segregation in professional baseball that persisted until the late 1940s

I'm not trying to discount Rose's reprehensible actions. However, this small sample goes to show that players should be voted based primarily on their performance on the field. Whether you like to accept it, or not, gambling is mental disease that has ruined many of lives. But hating another due to the melanin count in one's skin is just selfish and pure evil.

I'd take Pete Rose over Ty Cobb any day of the week, just sayin

 

[temery]

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_...ines-shows-pete-rose-bet-baseball-player-1986

"The documents are copies of pages from a notebook seized from the home of former Rose associate Michael Bertolini during a raid by the U.S. Postal Inspection Service in October 1989, nearly two months after Rose was declared permanently ineligible by Major League Baseball. Their authenticity has been verified by two people who took part in the raid, which was part of a mail fraud investigation and unrelated to gambling. For 26 years, the notebook has remained under court-ordered seal and is currently stored in the National Archives' New York office, where officials have declined requests to release it publicly.

Rose, through his lawyer, Raymond Genco, declined comment. Bertolini's lawyer, Nicholas De Feis, said his client is "not interested in speaking to anyone about these issues."

Don't care. There are far more corrupt players in the hall. Create a section for such players and add him to the room - but he belongs in the hall.

 

[Scoe]

Rose, Clemens, Bonds, Arod, and Palmeiro are all hall of famers in my book. The HOF is just a museum, baseball is trying really hard to have a good boy image.

 

[EricLA]

It's the rules. You want to be in the HOF, you can't pull the shenanigans that Rose pulled. Whether he deserves to be in the HOF is irrelevant. His statistics will always stand and his record may never be broken, but MLB would need to change their rules to allow him in. It's easy for me to say "I'm glad he's not" because I can't stand the guy. Doesn't take away from what he accomplished. But again, HOF - rules are rules. He's out unless they change them.

 

[David 76]

Hate the guy but I think you have to look at his behavior's outcome on the game. If he didn't bet on his team, then what he did hurts the sport a lot less than PEDs. If his gambling somehow affected his play or managing, he is out.

Didn't Ty Cobb beat up a fan who was in a wheelchair during a game?

 

[microfich]

As a friend of mine in the player agent business once told me, if we knew everything about elite athletes' personal lives, we'd be shocked and disgusted by 80% of them. The less we care, the better.

 

[superjohn]

The Hall of Fame was a special place to me as a kid, now I just look at it as a joke. No Rose, Bonds and Clemens is just absurd.

 

[Husky25]

"Regardless of the verdict of juries, no player who throws a ball game, no player who undertakes or promises to throw a ball game, no player who sits in confidence with a bunch of crooked ballplayers and gamblers, where the ways and means of throwing a game are discussed and does not promptly tell his club about it, will ever play professional baseball." Commissioner Kenesaw Mountain Landis.

If Buck Weaver or Shoeless Joe Jackson can't get off the Ineligible List, Rose has virtually no shot.

That being said, the HoF is pretty much the worst part of the venue. The Museum is much more impressive and interesting.

 

[noeynox]

Charlie Hustle will never be inducted now. Did it all to himself.

 

[nomar]

If one of the best players to ever play the game cannot be inducted into the HOF, what does the HOF stand for? Is it only reserved for the best baseballs players who also exhibited good character?
Let's take a look at some of those inductees who displayed exemplary character:

Ty Cobb: also known as the Georgia Peach, he was often painted a racist and had numerous documented altercations with African-Americans off the field, including one that led to a charge of attempted murder.Cobb, along with his fellow Hall of Famer Tris Speaker, was also implicated in a game-fixing scheme. Several researchers have written that Cobb and Speaker were members of the Ku Klux Klan, although that has never been conclusively verified.

Cap Anson (HOF '39): the Chicago Cubs first baseman and manager Anson repeatedly refused to take the field if the opposing roster included black players. His contemporary influence and prestige are regarded by historians as playing a major role in establishing the racial segregation in professional baseball that persisted until the late 1940s

I'm not trying to discount Rose's reprehensible actions. However, this small sample goes to show that players should be voted based primarily on their performance on the field. Whether you like to accept it, or not, gambling is mental disease that has ruined many of lives. But hating another due to the melanin count in one's skin is just selfish and pure evil.

I'd take Pete Rose over Ty Cobb any day of the week, just sayin

3 wrongs don't make a right. Just because there are s in the HOF doesn't mean we should induct more. (As we all know, the Confederate Battle Flag is flown at the SC Statehouse. Shall we add a KKK banner to that, because it too has historical significance? Reductio ad absurdum, I know, but that's the point.)

His feats demand recognition by the HOF, and they have been recognized accordingly.

Rose also bet on games involving his own team. That puts him in the same boat as the Black Sox. You can't mess with the games.

But at the end of the day, I would be willing to look past what he did, if not for the fact that HE'S STILL LYING TO EVERYONE. The #1 prerequisite is that Rose needed to come clean. In 26 years, he hasn't been able to do that. Screw him. The HOF doesn't need him. It's not like we don't know how many hits he has.

 

[TasteofUConn]

Clemens, Rose, and Bonds are all self-centered, arrogant D-heads. Two were cheaters, and one bet on the game, but, damn, they were great players. You gotta have standards. State the standard, apply the standard. If the standard is "no known cheaters or bettors in the Hall," then so be it. If that's not the standard, so be it.

 

[Northbound]

People really care about this, who knew.

 

[Dogdeacon]

Why is betting as a player worse than as manager? You would have more control & detrimental impact with select positive bets as manager vs select positive bets as a player. I assume if he bet on his own team it was never to lose.

 

[boog204]

Rose is a scumbag, but the Hall is filled with known and unknown scumbags. I really don't see what the big deal is. Baseball, largely because of its reliance on statistics, has tried to keep this morally iconic view of itself. Other sports could care less about PEDs. Baseball itself is essentially based on deception; whether it is stealing signs, illegal pitches, or as a fielder deking a baserunner. My senior year, we won the state championship. In the championship game, one of our coaches was able to fairly easily learn/steal their signs (the opposing coach called pitches from the dugout). We won 10-1 in part b/c we knew exactly what pitch was coming. Does that taint the title? Or is it gamesmanship?

Greenies were prevalent with most players from the 50s on and cocaine was rampant in the 70s and 80s. Mickey Mantle, Hank Aaron, and Willie Mays all admitted they used amphetamines during their career. Ty Cobb was a racist who along with Tris Speaker fixed at least one game. Cap Anson is the catalyst behind racial segregation in baseball and was proven to bet on games when he played. We revere those players now and no one really cares about their "exploits." Canseco stated in his book that 85% of players were on steroids; a number that was initially mocked and since proven fairly accurate. So why, all of a sudden, are we taking a moral stance on Rose and the rest of the 'roid guys? Cheating or not they were amazing players who succeeded, often, against other cheaters. Lots of guys cheated and sucked. Put them in the hall where they belong and put a blurb on their plaque if that's what needed to please the purists.

 

[UConnSwag11]

aROID will be in the hall of fame and not him... that's sad

 

[huskiesouth]

Why is betting as a player worse than as manager? You would have more control & detrimental impact with select positive bets as manager vs select positive bets as a player. I assume if he bet on his own team it was never to lose.

My memory (suspicious at its best) is that Rose did bet against his team while a manager.

The fact that Rose bet as a player (a fact never before made public) is probably one of main reasons two commissioners have consistently refused to re-consider his suspension. They were probably waiting to see if Rose had enough character and courage to lay it (the whole truth) all out there with no promises - he failed on all points.

Every Major League dugout during his career had written warnings against betting - in his arrogance he did not give two hoots, he has made his bed, blah blah. He did not care about himself or about baseball why should anyone care about his legacy?

One guy's opinion, only one that counts is the BB Commissioner, whoever he is.

 

[Scoe]

If Pete Rose isn't in the Hall of fame then why should Tom Brady get in, also I guess OJ Simpson shouldn't be in the hall of fame neither should LT, or Fred Biletnikoff for using stickum, oh yeah Jerry Rice used stickum why is he in the hall of fame. Michael Jordan gambled why is he in the hall of fame.

 

[sammydabiz]

Amen
...and @Huskysouth, I never heard Pete Rose bet against his own team. Where did you read that?

Rose is a scumbag, but the Hall is filled with known and unknown scumbags. I really don't see what the big deal is. Baseball, largely because of its reliance on statistics, has tried to keep this morally iconic view of itself. Other sports could care less about PEDs. Baseball itself is essentially based on deception; whether it is stealing signs, illegal pitches, or as a fielder deking a baserunner. My senior year, we won the state championship. In the championship game, one of our coaches was able to fairly easily learn/steal their signs (the opposing coach called pitches from the dugout). We won 10-1 in part b/c we knew exactly what pitch was coming. Does that taint the title? Or is it gamesmanship?

Greenies were prevalent with most players from the 50s on and cocaine was rampant in the 70s and 80s. Mickey Mantle, Hank Aaron, and Willie Mays all admitted they used amphetamines during their career. Ty Cobb was a racist who along with Tris Speaker fixed at least one game. Cap Anson is the catalyst behind racial segregation in baseball and was proven to bet on games when he played. We revere those players now and no one really cares about their "exploits." Canseco stated in his book that 85% of players were on steroids; a number that was initially mocked and since proven fairly accurate. So why, all of a sudden, are we taking a moral stance on Rose and the rest of the 'roid guys? Cheating or not they were amazing players who succeeded, often, against other cheaters. Lots of guys cheated and sucked. Put them in the hall where they belong and put a blurb on their plaque if that's what needed to please the purists.