OT- Penny Hardaway Quote On Kyvon Davenport | Page 3 | The Boneyard

OT- Penny Hardaway Quote On Kyvon Davenport

Stainmaster said:
No, you clearly haven’t moved on. You’re holding Hurley to an unfair standard and aren’t looking at him objectively.

I’ve called out plenty of people whose criticism of KO remains over the top. I have no issue calling out the other end of the spectrum as well.
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Wrong
 
intlzncster said:
And only one has been ignominiously fired.

Not sure how we can discuss where we are, and where we're going, absent the context of where we've been. But that's me.
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OK..those of us who disagreed with the handling of KO(which doe NOT make us anti Hurley)...are NOT the ones constantly harping on KO...But then again, that's just me.
 
I think he is just trying to motivate the kid, although he didnt have to take a knock at Tubby in the process imo. But yea what happens now? The kid is clearly called out. Either he gets all upset and folds or he wants to prove Penny wrong and he steps up and plays good basketball. Penny is giving criticizing his desire to play, but also saying that the kid is super talented. So it can be looked at in 2 ways. If the Kid see's the positive side of it that he is talented, he can change the negative side by going out there and showing he cares and that he is engaged. At this point I bet Penny thinks, i have nothing to lose with this kid.
 
12 points 4 rebounds in a win over Temple last night

side note- Jeremiah Martin is averaging 30 a game in February. Will be curious if Memphis can sneak into the bubble discussion. Massive game for them Saturday at Cincinnati.
 
Stainmaster said:
No, you clearly haven’t moved on. You’re holding Hurley to an unfair standard and aren’t looking at him objectively.

I’ve called out plenty of people whose criticism of KO remains over the top. I have no issue calling out the other end of the spectrum as well.
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There are plenty of Hurley supporters I could say the same thing about. Any criticism of him brings out 'oh you were a KO supporter, you're not being fair' they cannot handle anyone questioning Hurley - can they fairly evaluate him? There are some who I dont believe can.
 
Kathy said:
There are plenty of Hurley supporters I could say the same thing about. Any criticism of him brings out 'oh you were a KO supporter, you're not being fair' they cannot handle anyone questioning Hurley - can they fairly evaluate him? There are some who I dont believe can.
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He’s done way too little that deserves questioning for you to be driving your point home this hard.

Also, Dan Hurley is our head coach - how are you not a “Hurley supporter?”
 
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Stainmaster said:
He’s done way too little that deserves questioning for you to be driving your point home this hard.

Also, Dan Hurley is our head coach - how are you not a “Hurley supporter?”
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I support him and hope for success - but will not make the mistake of blind loyalty - I would hope we have all learned that lesson. Did I like Ollie - yes as a player and a head coach who won us a Championship. Did he fall down on the job - yes. But he has not deserved the vitriol spewed by some on this site.

I made it clear that I did not like the process involved in firing KO and hiring Hurley. Like when KO was hired as head coach the end result was written before the process started. I reserve the right as a long time fan who has been witness to the hiring of JC to replace Perno, and KO to replace JC - to watch and objectively evaluate Hurley. There are some positives I have seen but also some areas I still have questions. Those questions have nothing to do with KO and am getting a little sick and tired of the assumptions about my motives by some posters on the BY.
I have not been the one comparing him to Ollie, my thoughts are only based on my observations of Hurley. It seems there are many KO haters who are the ones who can't let go and move on.
 
Kathy said:
I support him and hope for success - but will not make the mistake of blind loyalty - I would hope we have all learned that lesson. Did I like Ollie - yes as a player and a head coach who won us a Championship. Did he fall down on the job - yes. But he has not deserved the vitriol spewed by some on this site.

I made it clear that I did not like the process involved in firing KO and hiring Hurley. Like when KO was hired as head coach the end result was written before the process started. I reserve the right as a long time fan who has been witness to the hiring of JC to replace Perno, and KO to replace JC - to watch and objectively evaluate Hurley. There are some positives I have seen but also some areas I still have questions. Those questions have nothing to do with KO and am getting a little sick and tired of the assumptions about my motives by some posters on the BY.
I have not been the one comparing him to Ollie, my thoughts are only based on my observations of Hurley. It seems there are many KO haters who are the ones who can't let go and move on.
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Facts. Like you, I have moved on. I was not pleased with the so called in the know posters who pretend to have info and have no problem posting rumors of his personal life, etc, etc. Being pro Ollie does NOT equal anti Hurley.
 
Just like with the "Black Socks" kid who asked "Shoeless Joe", "tell me it ain't so Joe!", even with all the noise about Ollie's private life (never saw any specifics posted, but may have missed) and observations of his coaching and recruiting actions could not (and still can't) reconcile his teams performance the 1st 2 years with what came after.
Having said that, was never a fan of JC offense nor Ollie's. Both (as all coaches are, ask coach K about losing just 1 super, duper 5 star freshman out of a whole bunch of them) of them "coached" better when they had the Kahlid's, Rip's, Kemba's and Bazz's playing. Expect Hurley will be the same.
Haven't seen enough progress for Carlton, Wilson nor Vital this year vs. last year (and/or just during the year). Big men closing out to get back to cover is not rocket science, passing more and earlier on possessions is not hard to teach/learn, losing games due to lousy foul shooting is not ok. Still this is year one so take this not as good as expected with the ok such as hustle and effort and pretty good recruiting and see how all ends this year.
As far as Penny's comments, seem very Geno-esk!
 
Husky68 said:
Just like with the "Black Socks" kid who asked "Shoeless Joe", "tell me it ain't so Joe!", even with all the noise about Ollie's private life (never saw any specifics posted, but may have missed) and observations of his coaching and recruiting actions could not (and still can't) reconcile his teams performance the 1st 2 years with what came after.
Having said that, was never a fan of JC offense nor Ollie's. Both (as all coaches are, ask coach K about losing just 1 super, duper 5 star freshman out of a whole bunch of them) of them "coached" better when they had the Kahlid's, Rip's, Kemba's and Bazz's playing. Expect Hurley will be the same.
Haven't seen enough progress for Carlton, Wilson nor Vital this year vs. last year (and/or just during the year). Big men closing out to get back to cover is not rocket science, passing more and earlier on possessions is not hard to teach/learn, losing games due to lousy foul shooting is not ok. Still this is year one so take this not as good as expected with the ok such as hustle and effort and pretty good recruiting and see how all ends this year.
As far as Penny's comments, seem very Geno-esk!
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You haven't seen any improvement from Wilson, Carlton or CV? Have you watched any games?
 
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polycom said:
obviously not.
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Too be honest I expected more. But obviously Carlton has shown great strides. Wilson shows great athletic skills but hasn't shown the game yet(think a taller thinner Norman Bailey, for you old timers)......Just has not shown up in the "W" column.
 
polycom said:
obviously not.
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I get that they're not exactly lighting the world on fire but I don't see how you could watch the majority of games this season and not notice that they have gotten better. They're not consistent but they've all flashed potential that's above and beyond where they were to start the year.
 
Madmannsucks said:
Too be honest I expected more. But obviously Carlton has shown great strides. Wilson shows great athletic skills but hasn't shown the game yet(think a taller thinner Norman Bailey, for you old timers).Just has not shown up in the "W" column.
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Wilson needs to work on his shooting, but he gets himself open and has improved a lot on defense over the course of the year. He also has stones. He's not afraid to take a big shot. Just needs them to fall
 
superjohn said:
Hurley hasn't come out and said it like Penny but he's hinted at it with basically everyone on this team except for Alterique and Vital.
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Deep down Chief gives Penny credit for his honesty.
 
Kathy said:
Yes I do- the season is almost over - time to move on. Many here are convinced he will get them where they want to be, I'm not so yet. I hope he is successful as I am and have always been a rabid fan. At some point all the talk by fans, media and Hurley about changing culture and teaching kids the right way to do things needs to stop. Hurley needs to take some responsibility instead of continually slamming the kids and Ollie. Why the slow starts to 2nd halves? Why has FT% decreased across the board(except Jalen)? These are legitimate questions. I understand he needs 'his' kids so he has a few years but he needs to show he can recruit big men, which hasn't worked so far. And in my view his X's and O's need to improve.
And yes I saw Calhoun's dressing down of players on the sidelines during the heat of the moment in a game, but Hardaway publically shaming a kid during an interview is just wrong.
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The things you point to that we need to improve on are legitimate points. I also thought Penny was speaking from the heart and making kids realize the commitment it takes to be good. I can tell you first hand, a lot of kids don’t know but need to be exposed to it. I guess it’s fair to argue the communication vehicle but I doubt if Penny hasn’t said this stuff to him in private or just in the team environment multiple times. Probably, out of frustration comes this more public approach - hoping that will turn on the switch.
 
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Kathy said:
But he has not deserved the vitriol spewed by some on this site.
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I've been far more critical of that vitriol than you have. Where were you when people were making garbage racial insinuations, or criticizing his performance as a father to his children? You certainly didn't object anywhere near as vocally as I did. I still get smeared as a KO apologist merely because I push back when people retroactively take credit for 2014 away. I'm more than well equipped to call balls and strikes on this issue. The excessive sensitivity you and others display isn't much better than the vitriol you complain about.
 
Kathy said:
Glad you all think you know what is in my head
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Even when Tenspro doesn't come out and explicitly say "I want every kid not named Alterique Gilbert sent packing," we can all tell what he's thinking. There are enough veiled references to see and sensible inferences to be made to support that. The same phenomenon is at play here.
 
Stainmaster said:
Even when Tenspro doesn't come out and explicitly say "I want every kid not named Alterique Gilbert sent packing," we can all tell what he's thinking.
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I can't tell. What's he thinking? And when and where did you learn to read minds? Is the tuition affordable?
 
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Chief00 said:
Deep down Chief gives Penny credit for his honesty.
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I'm too lazy to read 4 pages so wasn't sure if anyone said this yet. Totally agree and for me, it's not even "deep down". I give Penny all the credit in the world for his honesty, top to bottom. We all know this is a business in this day and age. So do the kids.

Coach is just ahead of his time because he has EF YOU money and doesn't need to worry about having a PC filter.

Figure out a way to pay these kids in college and a 100% accurate, public call out like this never makes the news.
 
formerlurker said:
I'm too lazy to read 4 pages so wasn't sure if anyone said this yet. Totally agree and for me, it's not even "deep down". I give Penny all the credit in the world for his honesty, top to bottom. We all know this is a business in this day and age. So do the kids.

Coach is just ahead of his time because he has EF YOU money and doesn't need to worry about having a PC filter.

Figure out a way to pay these kids in college and a 100% accurate, public call out like this never makes the news.
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You won't miss much by not reading the whole thread. Almost out of the chute, it got diverted into intimations about Jalen that got bypassed for arguments about Ollie, then Ollie vs. Hurley, a veritable reunion of last year's partisans and apologists, largely in denial, sometimes on point.

Whether or not to call out kids in the harshest language Penny used has been largely been characterized as a slam. Someare OK with it, and some aren't. There's been virtually no mention of the paragraph or so in which Penny says Davenport is one of the greatest kids in the world, that he's recently started getting curious about things said months ago, and that he's coming around, albeit with no guarantees. None of that contextual balancing seems evident in the overriding narrative that's being pushed around like a game of rock, paper, scissors with cheering sections.

Boneyardin'
 
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