OT- Penny Hardaway Quote On Kyvon Davenport

[jibsey]

Really impressed with Penny’s incisive response and it shows the depth that he has as a coach and person. Memphis seems like they have a good coach.

 

[pj]

So when a kid isn't as dedicated to sports as they should be, that equates to sin?
BTW - tough love doesn't have to be public.

In the context of D1 basketball, yes. Laziness is a sin. Wasting talent is a sin. Lack of love for teammates is a sin, and failing to uphold one's role on the team indicates a lack of love for teammates. Teams rise and fall together, and depend on all their members.

Tough love often doesn't have to be public, and the point of Jesus's teaching is that the first teachings should never be public; but there can come a time when public teachings and rebukes are desirable and virtuous. Public shaming is an effective tactic. Sometimes, it can be a virtuous tactic.

To give an example, had the bishops of the Catholic Church followed Jesus's teachings, we would have heard of public reprimands and laicizations of pedophile priests. The fact that such things never happened indicates a lack of love, not an excess of it.

You seem to have in mind the way a coach might deal with a young child in a recreational setting. Davenport is a grown man with NBA ambitions playing in high-level D1 basketball. He should be treated seriously, and the demands on him and other D1 players should be high.

 

[Stainmaster]

None of my concerns about Hueley have anything to do with him taking over for KO. I am over that, unlike many posters who can't stop trashing him. He is gone, get over it and move on. I have. Just call me still not convinced Hurley was the best choice. As far as mentoring, JC was a father figure to many, he never gave up.on someone. All you have to do is look at Murray William's, Caron Butler and Toraino Walker to name a few. Not saying Hurley can't become that, but sometimes a coach has to take responsibility for how the kids respond in games. He has not shown the ability to do that yet.

No, you clearly haven’t moved on. You’re holding Hurley to an unfair standard and aren’t looking at him objectively.

I’ve called out plenty of people whose criticism of KO remains over the top. I have no issue calling out the other end of the spectrum as well.

 

[Hans Sprungfeld]

@ me, you coward.

Are you registering a protest that I didn't call you out by name? You're just a face in the crowd here, and representing only one viewpoint when there are several being replayed...in an OT-labeled thread about Penny Hardaway no less.

Any veteran reader could do a decent job of guessing who has written what, who has liked it, who has argued back (and how), and who liked that. It's hardly cowardice that I didn't name names or choose sides. Neither my focus nor my interest. I liked how Penny said the kid is starting to come around

Mostly, I just think @Chin Diesel laid some bait and hungry folks started snapping.

 

[superjohn]

Are you registering a protest that I didn't call you out by name? You're just a face in the crowd here, and representing only one viewpoint when there are several being replayed...in an OT-labeled thread about Penny Hardaway no less.

Any veteran reader could do a decent job of guessing who has written what, who has liked it, who has argued back (and how), and who liked that. It's hardly cowardice that I didn't name names or choose sides. Neither my focus nor my interest. I liked how Penny said the kid is starting to come around

Mostly, I just think @Chin Diesel laid some bait and hungry folks started snapping.

Lighten up, Francis. It was a joke.

 

[Chin Diesel]

Are you registering a protest that I didn't call you out by name? You're just a face in the crowd here, and representing only one viewpoint when there are several being replayed...in an OT-labeled thread about Penny Hardaway no less.

Any veteran reader could do a decent job of guessing who has written what, who has liked it, who has argued back (and how), and who liked that. It's hardly cowardice that I didn't name names or choose sides. Neither my focus nor my interest. I liked how Penny said the kid is starting to come around

Mostly, I just think @Chin Diesel laid some bait and hungry folks started snapping.

I wasn't even laying bait. I think I was pretty clear I was going to short circuit the 75 posts of dancing ng around the subject all the red meat eaters wanted for dinner.

 

[Northbound]

Its the hardest thing in sports - trying to gret a kid to care.

I have personal experience as a college coach dealing with it i- its absolutley horrible.

 

[Hans Sprungfeld]

Lighten up, Francis. It was a joke.

OK. I misread and thought he was flattering himself, never imagining that you'd be doing such for him. Sorry, missed my cue.

 

[intlzncster]

OK...last I checked, only one of the 2 has a National Title. Oh, my bad.

And only one has been ignominiously fired.

Not sure how we can discuss where we are, and where we're going, absent the context of where we've been. But that's me.

 

[glastonbury50]

Penny knows exactly what he's doing. This is most likely well deserved.

 

[MilliniumPrince]

Just went back and reread the quote. It's not nearly as bad as is being claimed. In fact, the derailed discussion here, with so many of the usual suspects lining up and clicking Like, and arguing like it's a year ago (while claiming from all sides not to be) is arguably worse.

Nota bene: Rivalry Week was last week.

Yes, coaches often get quoted saying a player simply doesn't care and cannot be motivated.

 

[Kathy]

No, you clearly haven’t moved on. You’re holding Hurley to an unfair standard and aren’t looking at him objectively.

I’ve called out plenty of people whose criticism of KO remains over the top. I have no issue calling out the other end of the spectrum as well.

Wrong

 

[Madmannsucks]

And only one has been ignominiously fired.

Not sure how we can discuss where we are, and where we're going, absent the context of where we've been. But that's me.

OK..those of us who disagreed with the handling of KO(which doe NOT make us anti Hurley)...are NOT the ones constantly harping on KO...But then again, that's just me.

 

[UconnFanNVa]

I think he is just trying to motivate the kid, although he didnt have to take a knock at Tubby in the process imo. But yea what happens now? The kid is clearly called out. Either he gets all upset and folds or he wants to prove Penny wrong and he steps up and plays good basketball. Penny is giving criticizing his desire to play, but also saying that the kid is super talented. So it can be looked at in 2 ways. If the Kid see's the positive side of it that he is talented, he can change the negative side by going out there and showing he cares and that he is engaged. At this point I bet Penny thinks, i have nothing to lose with this kid.

 

[Drew]

12 points 4 rebounds in a win over Temple last night

side note- Jeremiah Martin is averaging 30 a game in February. Will be curious if Memphis can sneak into the bubble discussion. Massive game for them Saturday at Cincinnati.

 

[Kathy]

No, you clearly haven’t moved on. You’re holding Hurley to an unfair standard and aren’t looking at him objectively.

I’ve called out plenty of people whose criticism of KO remains over the top. I have no issue calling out the other end of the spectrum as well.

There are plenty of Hurley supporters I could say the same thing about. Any criticism of him brings out 'oh you were a KO supporter, you're not being fair' they cannot handle anyone questioning Hurley - can they fairly evaluate him? There are some who I dont believe can.

 

[Stainmaster]

There are plenty of Hurley supporters I could say the same thing about. Any criticism of him brings out 'oh you were a KO supporter, you're not being fair' they cannot handle anyone questioning Hurley - can they fairly evaluate him? There are some who I dont believe can.

He’s done way too little that deserves questioning for you to be driving your point home this hard.

Also, Dan Hurley is our head coach - how are you not a “Hurley supporter?”

 

[UCDaveD]

Also, Dan Hurley is our head coach - how are you not a “Hurley supporter?”

We all know the answer to that question.

 

[JellyBean]

Glad to hear/read about this. I wish more coaches were this honest. It is refreshing.

 

[Kathy]

He’s done way too little that deserves questioning for you to be driving your point home this hard.

Also, Dan Hurley is our head coach - how are you not a “Hurley supporter?”

I support him and hope for success - but will not make the mistake of blind loyalty - I would hope we have all learned that lesson. Did I like Ollie - yes as a player and a head coach who won us a Championship. Did he fall down on the job - yes. But he has not deserved the vitriol spewed by some on this site.

I made it clear that I did not like the process involved in firing KO and hiring Hurley. Like when KO was hired as head coach the end result was written before the process started. I reserve the right as a long time fan who has been witness to the hiring of JC to replace Perno, and KO to replace JC - to watch and objectively evaluate Hurley. There are some positives I have seen but also some areas I still have questions. Those questions have nothing to do with KO and am getting a little sick and tired of the assumptions about my motives by some posters on the BY.
I have not been the one comparing him to Ollie, my thoughts are only based on my observations of Hurley. It seems there are many KO haters who are the ones who can't let go and move on.

 

[Madmannsucks]

I support him and hope for success - but will not make the mistake of blind loyalty - I would hope we have all learned that lesson. Did I like Ollie - yes as a player and a head coach who won us a Championship. Did he fall down on the job - yes. But he has not deserved the vitriol spewed by some on this site.

I made it clear that I did not like the process involved in firing KO and hiring Hurley. Like when KO was hired as head coach the end result was written before the process started. I reserve the right as a long time fan who has been witness to the hiring of JC to replace Perno, and KO to replace JC - to watch and objectively evaluate Hurley. There are some positives I have seen but also some areas I still have questions. Those questions have nothing to do with KO and am getting a little sick and tired of the assumptions about my motives by some posters on the BY.
I have not been the one comparing him to Ollie, my thoughts are only based on my observations of Hurley. It seems there are many KO haters who are the ones who can't let go and move on.

Facts. Like you, I have moved on. I was not pleased with the so called in the know posters who pretend to have info and have no problem posting rumors of his personal life, etc, etc. Being pro Ollie does NOT equal anti Hurley.

 

[Husky68]

Just like with the "Black Socks" kid who asked "Shoeless Joe", "tell me it ain't so Joe!", even with all the noise about Ollie's private life (never saw any specifics posted, but may have missed) and observations of his coaching and recruiting actions could not (and still can't) reconcile his teams performance the 1st 2 years with what came after.
Having said that, was never a fan of JC offense nor Ollie's. Both (as all coaches are, ask coach K about losing just 1 super, duper 5 star freshman out of a whole bunch of them) of them "coached" better when they had the Kahlid's, Rip's, Kemba's and Bazz's playing. Expect Hurley will be the same.
Haven't seen enough progress for Carlton, Wilson nor Vital this year vs. last year (and/or just during the year). Big men closing out to get back to cover is not rocket science, passing more and earlier on possessions is not hard to teach/learn, losing games due to lousy foul shooting is not ok. Still this is year one so take this not as good as expected with the ok such as hustle and effort and pretty good recruiting and see how all ends this year.
As far as Penny's comments, seem very Geno-esk!

 

[JMick]

Just like with the "Black Socks" kid who asked "Shoeless Joe", "tell me it ain't so Joe!", even with all the noise about Ollie's private life (never saw any specifics posted, but may have missed) and observations of his coaching and recruiting actions could not (and still can't) reconcile his teams performance the 1st 2 years with what came after.
Having said that, was never a fan of JC offense nor Ollie's. Both (as all coaches are, ask coach K about losing just 1 super, duper 5 star freshman out of a whole bunch of them) of them "coached" better when they had the Kahlid's, Rip's, Kemba's and Bazz's playing. Expect Hurley will be the same.
Haven't seen enough progress for Carlton, Wilson nor Vital this year vs. last year (and/or just during the year). Big men closing out to get back to cover is not rocket science, passing more and earlier on possessions is not hard to teach/learn, losing games due to lousy foul shooting is not ok. Still this is year one so take this not as good as expected with the ok such as hustle and effort and pretty good recruiting and see how all ends this year.
As far as Penny's comments, seem very Geno-esk!

You haven't seen any improvement from Wilson, Carlton or CV? Have you watched any games?

 

[polycom]

You haven't seen any improvement from Wilson, Carlton or CV? Have you watched any games?

obviously not.

 

[Madmannsucks]

obviously not.

Too be honest I expected more. But obviously Carlton has shown great strides. Wilson shows great athletic skills but hasn't shown the game yet(think a taller thinner Norman Bailey, for you old timers)......Just has not shown up in the "W" column.