OT - Pat's play calling . . .

[Devland]

BTW Congrats to Jets fans. There Super Bowl is when the Patriots are eliminated. Don't worry about the Patriots, they are up and coming with the second youngest team in the NFL.

 

[UChusky916]

Let's see if you're theories hold up. For instance, take the Carolina Super Bowl. You're saying the Patriots used filming of signals against Carolina?

Where did they get the gamefilm?

These aren't theories bud, they're facts.

Belichick admitted he has been videotaping opponents defensive signals since he became head coach in 2000. Belichick believed the taping was legal as long as the tape wasn't used during the same game, saying "my interpretation was that you can't utilize anything to assist you during that game." Therefore, he admitted they were using tape from earlier games.

Quit being a Patriots homer. They were cheating when they won their superbowls. They got caught. They haven't won one since. Belichick is a tremendous coach and Brady is a fantastic HOF QB but that doesn't cloud the fact that they cheated during their 'dynasty'.

 

[Northbound]

As a Bronco fan since the days of Craig Morton all I can say is Go Donkeys.

 

[upstater]

You know it was common knowledge before that season that pretty much every NFL team was taping illegally. The league had stated before the season that it was a point emphasis. The first game of the season the Patriots security had the Jet's cameramen stop taping. This ticked off the Jets and they reported the Patriots to the league. It was going to happen to one team that year. It just happened to be the Patriots. Teams were taping hand signals on the sidelines. It is legal to have a coach with a pen and paper writing down the hand signals. So there is no real advantage.

It was also legal to tape from the stands (Bob Costas asked this point blank of Goodell) and also from the luxury boxes, according to the rules. As you said, the Jets were caught doing the same thing. Cowher said the Steelers were doing, the coach of the Cowboys has said he was doing it, and both said everyone was doing it. Heck, the Patriots lost a game to the Dolphins because the Phins had tape with their signals, and no one cared.

The point I was making to him, however, is a couple of those Super Bowls, the Patriots didn't have any gamefilm of signals because they hadn't played those teams prior to the Super Bowl. The last time they played Carolina, for instance, was 3 years earlier, and John Fox wasn't even the coach. George Seifert was the coach. Now it very well may be that John Fox didn't change the signals from the Seifert era, but that would be his fault, not Belichick's.

 

[upstater]

Therefore, he admitted they were using tape from earlier games.

There were no earlier games against those Super Bowl teams. LOL, that's why I was asking you those questions. In 2 of those games, they hadn't faced those teams. For instance, the last time the Patriots faced the Panthers was 3 years earlier, when George Seifert was their coach. Get it?

 

[Devland]

As a Bronco fan since the days of Craig Morton all I can say is Go Donkeys.

I am now a huge 49er fan for the rest of the season. I can not stand the cocky Manning family and something about Seattle irks me. I'm not sure what it is. Maybe Pete Carroll.

 

[champs99and04]

OP - the Patriots throw the ball deep because that's what defenses want them to do. Edlemen and Amendola are purely possession guys - if you can figure out that the Patriots want to run as many short pass plays as possible, then surely defensive coordinators can as well. The Denver defense was designed to challenge New England to beat them over the top, and they just don't have the weaponry to do that.

 

[UChusky916]

You know it was common knowledge before that season that pretty much every NFL team was taping illegally. The league had stated before the season that it was a point emphasis. The first game of the season the Patriots security had the Jet's cameramen stop taping. This ticked off the Jets and they reported the Patriots to the league. It was going to happen to one team that year. It just happened to be the Patriots. Teams were taping hand signals on the sidelines. It is legal to have a coach with a pen and paper writing down the hand signals. So there is no real advantage.

LOL, yeah, sure, IT JUST SO HAPPENED TO BE THE PATRIOTS! How unlucky for them! Then why didn't Goodell start an investigation into all of these other teams that were cheating? There was no evidence of other teams cheating. Only the Patriots.

You think there was 'no real advantage' to taping defensive signals? Goodell fined Belicheck the maxiumum amount allowable by the rules. Goodell also fined the Patriots organization. Goodell took away their first round pick in the draft. Why do you think he did this if he thought the Patriots were not gaining an advantage?!

Excuses, excuses.
Patriots fans are the worst.

 

[UChusky916]

There were no earlier games against those Super Bowl teams. LOL, that's why I was asking you those questions. In 2 of those games, they hadn't faced those teams. For instance, the last time the Patriots faced the Panthers was 3 years earlier, when George Seifert was their coach. Get it?

Just because the Pats didn't play the Panthers doesn't mean they didnt have a chance to film them at a different game earlier in the year. Get it? Dumb@ss

 

[Devland]

LOL, yeah, sure, IT JUST SO HAPPENED TO BE THE PATRIOTS! How unlucky for them! Then why didn't Goodell start an investigation into all of these other teams that were cheating? There was no evidence of other teams cheating. Only the Patriots.

You think there was 'no real advantage' to taping defensive signals? Goodell fined Belicheck the maxiumum amount allowable by the rules. Goodell also fined the Patriots organization. Goodell took away their first round pick in the draft. Why do you think he did this if he thought the Patriots were not gaining an advantage?!

Excuses, excuses.
Patriots fans are the worst.

There is no real advantage if every other team is doing it. Wow, you must be a jealous fan of some team the Patriots dominated. lol

 

[upstater]

Just because the Pats didn't play the Panthers doesn't mean they didnt have a chance to film them at a different game earlier in the year. Get it? Dumb@ss

It's not illegal to film them. It's only illegal to film them from the sidelines. Anyone can film other teams. And guess what, everyone did film other teams. As the link from Bill Cowher I posted shows you. I can show you plenty of other coaches saying the same thing.

Do you know the actual rule? It says you shouldn't film from open areas of the field. You are allowed to film from the boxes. It's legal. It says do in the very rule. In fact, read the link I posted directly above this post, and you'll even see what the NFL says about the Jets filming the Patriots.

 

[upstater]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3151217

 

[UChusky916]

There is no real advantage if every other team is doing it. Wow, you must be a jealous fan of some team the Patriots dominated. lol

EVERY OTHER TEAM was cheating, huh? Then why is it that ONLY the Patriots got caught and reprimanded by the league?

 

[UChusky916]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3151217

Jets got sick of Patriots cheating against them and tried to get the Pats back. Makes sense. Then the NFL investigation against the patriots started.
Other than that, there was no hard evidence of other teams cheating and filming to the extent that the patriots did. That's why the Pats and Belichick got fined and thats why the Pats lost their 1st round pick.

And no, I'm not a jets fan. I hate the jets.

 

[Strummer]

I started this thread just to get some input on the Pats play calling. It has devolved into a throwing contest about historical NFL events.


I'd like to apologize to everybody for starting this thread in the first place. Please forgive me, and somebody please delete or move this thread!

 

[upstater]

Jets got sick of Patriots cheating against them and tried to get the Pats back. Makes sense. Then the NFL investigation against the patriots started.
Other than that, there was no hard evidence of other teams cheating and filming to the extent that the patriots did. That's why the Pats and Belichick got fined and thats why the Pats lost their 1st round pick.

And no, I'm not a jets fan. I hate the jets.

I know they got fined. That's not news. I was just contesting your idea that they illegally filmed the Panthers. They didn't, they couldn't have, they didn't play them.

As for other teams doing that, all the evidence we have is of coaches saying that they were doing the exact same thing. I have no reason to doubt those coaches, do you?

 

[upstater]

EVERY OTHER TEAM was cheating, huh? Then why is it that ONLY the Patriots got caught and reprimanded by the league?

You know what the biggest cheat ever is? The Broncos going 40% over the salary cap in their Super Bowl years. Give every other team the ability to bring in 40% better players, and see how good they are. Yet no one even mentions that.NO OTHER TEAMS were doing that. Many coaches have said they were doing exactly what the Patriots were doing.

And in case you don't know it, not only Patriots fans are asking your last question, but Bob Kraft did too!

 

[dsturdy5]

Sigh, people who still bring up the camera stuff, I just don't know what that says about them.

As for today, I was just as surprised at the play calling as I was at how off Brady was. He had guys open deep, Dobson and Edelman, and he had some tight windows in which to fit a pass and missed.

What the offense, and by extension, Brady, doesn't get enough credit for, IMHO, is how they just reinvent themselves every few years. When Brady first took over, it was Smith and some no name receivers. They were a balanced team that relied on defense and special teams to put them in position to score.

They then draft Graham, Givens, and Branch who go on to become the starters a few years later along with Troy Brown. Then they bring in Dillon and become a power team with a lot of balance and they suddenly have three rings.

When Givens and Branch leave, and with an aging Dillon, they add Maroney, who was pretty darn good for a couple of years. They lose in the AFC Championship game and go get Stallworth, Welker, and Moss which takes them to 18-1. Moss gets traded, Branch comes back and they have the two tight ends and are suddenly a middle of the field team.

Now they have gutted that, much through necessity out of their control, with new running backs, new wide receivers, and Gronk. All along, only missing the playoffs when Brady is hurt, and never having fewer than 10 wins. Just amazing what Brady has been able to do...oh and he has had three or four OC's in that time too. I challenge anyone to name a qb who has done close to that with the amount of turn over in the skill positions that Brady has had to deal with.

 

[Northbound]

You know what the biggest cheat ever is? The Broncos going 40% over the salary cap in their Super Bowl years. Give every other team the ability to bring in 40% better players, and see how good they are. Yet no one even mentions that.NO OTHER TEAMS were doing that. Many coaches have said they were doing exactly what the Patriots were doing.

And in case you don't know it, not only Patriots fans are asking your last question, but Bob Kraft did too!

The divert attention from the topic at hand defense. That is funny. This is the epitome of the patriots fans, which is why a vast majority of the rest of the fan bases around the country rightfully think patriots fans are tools. They've surpassed Jets fans as the biggest douches out there.

 

[dsturdy5]

The divert attention from the topic at hand defense. That is funny. This is the epitome of the patriots fans, which is why a vast majority of the rest of the fan bases around the country rightfully think patriots fans are tools. They've surpassed Jets fans as the biggest douches out there.

How is he diverting anything? One poster brought up "cheating" which it was proved it wasn't. Rather it was a camera in the wrong place, the practice of gathering and using the film itself is perfectly legal. He then explained this pretty clearly. After, he brought up that other teams have done far worse to actually gain a competitive advantage, yet it is rarely discussed.

 

[uconngb]

The divert attention from the topic at hand defense. That is funny. This is the epitome of the patriots fans, which is why a vast majority of the rest of the fan bases around the country rightfully think patriots fans are tools. They've surpassed Jets fans as the biggest douches out there.

ARE there any Jets fans out there??

 

[StoweD210]

Just because the Pats didn't play the Panthers doesn't mean they didnt have a chance to film them at a different game earlier in the year. Get it? Dumb@ss

So the Patriots sent a film crew to a Panthers game earlier that season, got permission the opposing team to set up on their sideline and filmed the Panthers signals based on the possibility that they might face Carolina in the Super Bowl.

Yeah, that's totally believable.

 

[johnhuskies95]

Patriots fans have said "wait till next year" pretty much every year for the last decade. Brady is going to be 37 and the offensive personnel is getting worse and worse each year.

 

[dsturdy5]

Patriots fans have said "wait till next year" pretty much every year for the last decade. Brady is going to be 37 and the offensive personnel is getting worse and worse each year.

The first part not really a bold statement. Since NE last won a Super Bowl, only 5 franchises have hoisted the Lombardi...

The second part is interesting. Would I love for them to go out and get a Larry Fitzgerald and Adrian Peterson to help this team? Not at the expense of developing the depth that is needed throughout an NFL season. Besides, people used to say that about the defense, but what happened? The have rebuilt on the fly by phasing older players out and bringing in younger ones. They literally did it position by position. They would draft secondary players one year, LB's the next, and so on. Look at it now, even with all of the injuries, a pretty formidable group.

On offense, they started by drafting Solder three years ago, the tight ends, then the running backs. This past year they added three rookie wr's. Is the personnel getting worse or is it getting younger, which will then trend up in the future? I would expect them to add a veteran wr this offseason, depth on the line, and a tight end. This is the second youngest team in the NFL which lost six former pro bowlers to season ending injuries, that had to rebuild its offense after the draft due to the tight end situation, and they were a win away from the Super Bowl.

 

[johnhuskies95]

The first part not really a bold statement. Since NE last won a Super Bowl, only 5 franchises have hoisted the Lombardi...

The second part is interesting. Would I love for them to go out and get a Larry Fitzgerald and Adrian Peterson to help this team? Not at the expense of developing the depth that is needed throughout an NFL season. Besides, people used to say that about the defense, but what happened? The have rebuilt on the fly by phasing older players out and bringing in younger ones. They literally did it position by position. They would draft secondary players one year, LB's the next, and so on. Look at it now, even with all of the injuries, a pretty formidable group.

On offense, they started by drafting Solder three years ago, the tight ends, then the running backs. This past year they added three rookie wr's. Is the personnel getting worse or is it getting younger, which will then trend up in the future? I would expect them to add a veteran wr this offseason, depth on the line, and a tight end. This is the second youngest team in the NFL which lost six former pro bowlers to season ending injuries, that had to rebuild its offense after the draft due to the tight end situation, and they were a win away from the Super Bowl.

Brady probably has two to three years left playing at a high level. I don't think they have enough time to wait to develop guys from the draft.