OT: Pats-Colts

[4in16]

This has turned into a witch hunt because every NFL fan who lives outside of New England hates the patriots and even if BB and TB are telling the truth they are liars because everyone who hates the pats, which seems to be the entire country, wants them to be and is blindly convinced due to this hate that they are blatantly lying and are really behind this evil scheme. The remote possibility or even real possibility that this was because of a bad psi pump or referee check is not even a second thought due to the hate towards the franchise. I don't know which is true but this whole thing is ridiculous and blown out of proportion.

 

[CL82]

Is coach K better then Calhoun then.

Not when they are coaching against each other in the final two games of the season.

 

[mauconnfan]

If you don't care then why in the world would you respond in a way that completely misinterprets what I wrote? I think it's hilarious that you're commenting and you can't even understand the basics.

The "basics" is this whole thread and while I like you upstater outside of your circle jerk Patriot world, I am afraid you are clueless. It ALL points to the Pats lying and cheating and you are somehow arguing every point with crap you are slinging from this team ,this guy, this QB - you need to just admit the facts and quit looking like you want to go down on Bill and Tom. It's painful to read your rebuttals which all are so biased it's pitiful. Stop, they're cheaters - live with it and win the Super Bowl so you can laugh it off.

 

[mauconnfan]

This has turned into a witch hunt because every NFL fan who lives outside of New England hates the patriots and even if BB and TB are telling the truth they are liars because everyone who hates the pats, which seems to be the entire country, wants them to be and is blindly convinced due to this hate that they are blatantly lying and are really behind this evil scheme. The remote possibility or even real possibility that this was because of a bad psi pump or referee check is not even a second thought due to the hate towards the franchise. I don't know which is true but this whole thing is ridiculous and blown out of proportion.

Another Pats fan with a "wo is me" attitude - they cheated, AGAIN, will one of you admit it and move on to the Super Bowl?

 

[auggie22]

Think of how much this board could accomplish if we could find a way to channel this passion.

 

[Deepster]

This has turned into a witch hunt because every NFL fan who lives outside of New England hates the patriots and even if BB and TB are telling the truth they are liars because everyone who hates the pats, which seems to be the entire country, wants them to be and is blindly convinced due to this hate that they are blatantly lying and are really behind this evil scheme. The remote possibility or even real possibility that this was because of a bad psi pump or referee check is not even a second thought due to the hate towards the franchise. I don't know which is true but this whole thing is ridiculous and blown out of proportion.

Fine. Then why were all 12 Patriots footballs under the regulation weight, 11 by approximately 2 lbs.....but Indy's 12 balls were all okay? The PSI pump broke immediately after they checked the Colts footballs?

That's why it's a witch hunt. Because it's a clear case of SOMEONE on the Patriots altering those footballs and they aren't owning up to it.

 

[UChusky916]

Its remarkable how Patriot fans keep making excuses for their team. They're the only ones who's footballs were deflated and it didn't happen by accident either.
Why can't any Pats fans at least have the decency to admit they tampered with the balls and move on? Its unbelievable how, in arrogant Patriot fan minds, the team can do no wrong and that this investigation is all because 'Goodell hates the Pats' and 'other teams are jealous'. None of that supports the fact that the balls were noticeably under inflated. Mind-numbing stuff on this board.

 

[upstater]

Fine. Then why were all 12 Patriots footballs under the regulation weight, 11 by approximately 2 lbs.....but Indy's 12 balls were all okay? The PSI pump broke immediately after they checked the Colts footballs?

That's why it's a witch hunt. Because it's a clear case of SOMEONE on the Patriots altering those footballs and they aren't owning up to it.

There weren't even 12 footballs measured.

Legarette Blount threw one deep into the stands after he ran a TD in. Couldn't have been 12.

 

[boba]

One thing about this thread:
Can someone please point out where the NFL said the investigation is complete and here are the results.
All we have read and heard so far are from "sources." For all we know those sources are the same as Chief's or the ones my mother-in-law hears. As for the analysts, they appear to lack any knowledge regarding basic physics or awareness of Charles' Law.
Oh and pressure and weight are two different things. Pressure is a measurement of force on a surface, weight is a measurement of the response of mass to gravity.
And if Patriot fans are arrogant because they do not believe these "sources," what does that make the detractors? I find it hard to believe this is "mind-numbing" because it appears the collective minds are already comfortably numb.
When the NFL finishes its investigation and releases the result,then we may have an understanding what happened. As it is all you have is speculation and opinion (along the blithering of sources and analysts).

 

[John]

Its remarkable how Patriot fans keep making excuses for their team. They're the only ones who's footballs were deflated and it didn't happen by accident either.
Why can't any Pats fans at least have the decency to admit they tampered with the balls and move on? Its unbelievable how, in arrogant Patriot fan minds, the team can do no wrong and that this investigation is all because 'Goodell hates the Pats' and 'other teams are jealous'. None of that supports the fact that the balls were noticeably under inflated. Mind-numbing stuff on this board.

how can Pats fans admit that the balls were tampered with by the Pats when the Pats aren't even admitting that?

 

[8893]

This has turned into a witch hunt because every NFL fan who lives outside of New England hates the patriots

Don't sell yourself short: there are plenty of us who live in New England who also hate the Patriots.

Perception is reality. The majority perception--however reached--is that the Patriots cheated (again); got caught (again); and are being less than frank about it (again).

Next.

 

[prankster]

I presume that we are all, here, predominantly basketball fans.

In basketball, players "cheat" all the time. They hold, they bump, they grab, they push, they hook, they take extra steps, they camp out in the lane....and on and on.

In basketball, when you are getting an advantage, you take it. Whatever the refs are giving you, you take.

I presume, in football, it is the same. Is it not?

Whatever the refs give you, you take it.

And then there is the inflation of the balls.

If the NFL wanted to address this, they could, very easily. They clearly consider this to be a very low priority. Each team gets their own 12 balls. And the refs, presumably, at some level or another, "monitor" compliance with the prescriptive 12 +/- 1 psi (or whatever the hell it is).

And then we have the "Whatever the refs give you, you take it." approach to sports......

 

[UChusky916]

how can Pats fans admit that the balls were tampered with by the Pats when the Pats aren't even admitting that?

LOL. Yeah, because they'd be so forthright about admitting they cheated...

Give me a break. It's all there:
-Refs approved the game balls 2 1/2 hrs before the game.
-Game balls were returned to the Patriots.
-In-game, the balls were deflated by as much as 2 PSI.

The marked ball deflation didn't magically occur in 11 of 12 balls. It's clear that the balls were modified for the game after they were returned to the team. The patriots gain an unfair advantage from a deflated ball. That's cheating.

No, it problably wouldn't have impacted the outcome of the Colts game. But the fact is they still cheated. Period.

Arrogant Patriot fans think the team can do no wrong and constantly make excuses for them. I don't understand why not a single Pats fan can see my logic above and say 'Yeah, maybe they did it' and admit that it's unacceptable. But the arrogance of the Pats fan base doesn't allow them to see logic when it comes to their team.

 

[John]

LOL. Yeah, because they'd be so forthright about admitting they cheated...

Give me a break. It's all there:
-Refs approved the game balls 2 1/2 hrs before the game.
-Game balls were returned to the Patriots.
-In-game, the balls were deflated by as much as 2 PSI.

The marked ball deflation didn't magically occur in 11 of 12 balls. It's clear that the balls were modified for the game after they were returned to the team. The patriots gain an unfair advantage from a deflated ball. That's cheating.

No, it problably wouldn't have impacted the outcome of the Colts game. But the fact is they still cheated. Period.

Arrogant Patriot fans think the team can do no wrong and constantly make excuses for them. I don't understand why not a single Pats fan can see my logic above and say 'Yeah, maybe they did it' and admit that it's unacceptable. But the arrogance of the Pats fan base doesn't allow them to see logic when it comes to their team.

I don't see what the big deal is, there's been no official declaration so why should the fans make one?

 

[UChusky916]

I don't see what the big deal is, there's been no official declaration so why should the fans make one?

My point being, it would be refreshing for just ONE Pats fan to be unbiased and see the facts and say that what the team is doing is sketchy and wrong. If I were a Patriot fan, I wouldn't want a national focus on a controversy about the team days before the superbowl. I would expect a fan would be disappointed with the team for this, because, if the Patriots are as good as everyone says they are, why do they need to stoop so low to gain an unfair advantage? Yet, nothing from the Patriot fan base because, again, the team can do no wrong in their eyes.

Instead, Pats fans respond to the accusations with only lame excuses. From this thread alone:
-'The media is making this a huge deal, its nothing'
-'Patriots were winning that game anyways'
-'Goodell hates the Patriots'
-'Other teams hate the Patriots because they're jealous of their success'
-'Under inflation of a football doesn't make a difference'

All of these excuses detract from the simple fact that they cheated. Period.

 

[CL82]

Fine. Then why were all 12 Patriots footballs under the regulation weight, 11 by approximately 2 lbs.....but Indy's 12 balls were all okay? The PSI pump broke immediately after they checked the Colts footballs?

That's why it's a witch hunt. Because it's a clear case of SOMEONE on the Patriots altering those footballs and they aren't owning up to it.

Because Indy over inflated their balls and when they cooled then ended up within regulation weight? The refs didn't check them and now are covering up? Aliens? You can suppose a lot of things, but until you have facts, that's all it is supposition. Now when the NFL comes back and says there's no evidence of tampering, which I strongly suspect that they will, are you going to be satisfied Deep, or you already so locked in to a conclusion based on an incomplete knowledge of the facts that you will still be outraged?

 

[John]

My point being, it would be refreshing for just ONE Pats fan to be unbiased and see the facts and say that what the team is doing is sketchy and wrong. If I were a Patriot fan, I wouldn't want a national focus on a controversy about the team days before the superbowl. I would expect a fan would be disappointed with the team for this, because, if the Patriots are as good as everyone says they are, why do they need to stoop so low to gain an unfair advantage? Yet, nothing from the Patriot fan base because, again, the team can do no wrong in their eyes.

Instead, Pats fans respond to the accusations with only lame excuses. From this thread alone:
-'The media is making this a huge deal, its nothing'
-'Patriots were winning that game anyways'
-'Goodell hates the Patriots'
-'Other teams hate the Patriots because they're jealous of their success'
-'Under inflation of a football doesn't make a difference'

All of these excuses detract from the simple fact that they cheated. Period.

but we're not sure they cheated yet. That's my point.

 

[UChusky916]

but we're not sure they cheated yet. That's my point.

And you're proving my point of Patriot fans being ridiculously biased because there's simply no other explanation for the refs approving the balls, returning them to the patriots, then during the game finding 11 of 12 are 2 PSI below limit.

Bias = Ignorance.

 

[boba]

but we're not sure they cheated yet. That's my point.

The league is not commenting on its "review" at this point. Brady said Thursday that the league has not contacted him, which is somewhat curious. From this viewpoint, that's the obvious place where the focus should now shift. By acknowledging their "review" and investigation in the first place, the NFL has given this story a tidal wave of momentum over the last five days. Some more information and transparency from the NFL on what they have, what they're looking for, and their process (pregame, during the game, postgame) would add critical context to the discussion at a time when personal reputations and the brand of one of its franchises are at stake. That is, unless the NFL likes the idea that talk of deflated footballs is leading national network newscasts and adds an element of drama in the build-up to Super Bowl XLIX.

Source
That the NFL has said nothing is odd, but I follow Hanlon's Razor: Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

 

[CL82]

My point being, it would be refreshing for just ONE Pats fan to be unbiased and see the facts and say that what the team is doing is sketchy and wrong. If I were a Patriot fan, I wouldn't want a national focus on a controversy about the team days before the superbowl. I would expect a fan would be disappointed with the team for this, because, if the Patriots are as good as everyone says they are, why do they need to stoop so low to gain an unfair advantage? Yet, nothing from the Patriot fan base because, again, the team can do no wrong in their eyes.

Instead, Pats fans respond to the accusations with only lame excuses. From this thread alone:
-'The media is making this a huge deal, its nothing'
-'Patriots were winning that game anyways'
-'Goodell hates the Patriots'
-'Other teams hate the Patriots because they're jealous of their success'
-'Under inflation of a football doesn't make a difference'

All of these excuses detract from the simple fact that they cheated. Period.

When people rush to judgment supplementing the scant information that is available with their own wild imaginings, well that reflects more upon them than on the team with which they are so desperate to a flaw.
If I were a fan of another team, I wouldn't want to be exposed as an irrational complainer desperate for any excuse to explain away excellence. In the days leading up to the Super Bowl I would want to focus on a great team and how my could improve rather than find justifications for their mediocrity. I mean if there teams can compete, why are they so worried about a pound or so of air pressure in a ball? Yet, we don't see this from other fans, who instead want to focus on banality.

From a Pat's fan perspective, we see people say that
- they are "sure" that the Pat's "cheated"; -
- that Bellichick "had to know";
- that the Patriots "need to be punished"
and yet the facts don't support these postions.

All of their complaints distract them from the fact that their team is done for the season, which I guess is the point. Period.

[See what I did there?]

 

[Deepster]

Because Indy over inflated their balls and when they cooled then ended up within regulation weight? The refs didn't check them and now are covering up? Aliens? You can suppose a lot of things, but until you have facts, that's all it is supposition. Now when the NFL comes back and says there's no evidence of tampering, which I strongly suspect that they will, are you going to be satisfied Deep, or you already so locked in to a conclusion based on an incomplete knowledge of the facts that you will still be outraged?

a) If the cold weather had that level of an impact on the balls in a few hours, every December outdoor game in the northern half of the US would be impacted and wouldn't it be readily known? No one, outside of a Patriots fan, has postulated or acted like they actually believe it was the weather.

b) If the NFL finds no evidence tampering, I would still obviously have doubt in my mind. It's a matter of logic. Indy's 12 balls were okay. All 12 Pats balls were SIGNIFICANTLY deflated. And the Patriots have a lineage of cheating and/or "bending the rules". They don't get the benefit of the doubt anymore.

Another thing. I don't know how often I've seen members of the media react to a press conference before where they come out and say "I didn't believe him" and "I thought he was lying" like they did yesterday. It's not just Pats haters in CT or NY.

 

[boba]

And you're proving my point of Patriot fans being ridiculously biased because there's simply no other explanation for the refs approving the balls, returning them to the patriots, then during the game finding 11 of 12 are 2 PSI below limit.

Bias = Ignorance.

Ah yes the wisdom of the masses... (BTW that is the logical fallacy is know as argumentum ad populum)

 

[John]

And you're proving my point of Patriot fans being ridiculously biased because there's simply no other explanation for the refs approving the balls, returning them to the patriots, then during the game finding 11 of 12 are 2 PSI below limit.

Bias = Ignorance.

I'm not a Patriots fan though. .....

I'm saying that YOU should put away YOUR biases and let the process play out.

 

[UChusky916]

I'm not a Patriots fan though.

Then maybe just ignorant? There's simply no other justification for the balls being under inflated by game time if they were checked pre-game other than the fact that they were altered intentionally.

 

[John]

Then maybe just ignorant? There's simply no other justification for the balls being under inflated by game time if they were checked pre-game other than the fact that they were altered intentionally.

I think you're so biased that you cannot be rational.

 

[CL82]

a) If the cold weather had that level of an impact on the balls in a few hours, every December outdoor game in the northern half of the US would be impacted and wouldn't it be readily known? No one, outside of a Patriots fan, has postulated or acted like they actually believe it was the weather. Because no one asked for balls the measured at half time? Do we know whether they have? Tough to come a decision in a information vacuum.

b) If the NFL finds no evidence tampering, I would still obviously have doubt in my mind. It's a matter of logic. Indy's 12 balls were okay. All 12 Pats balls were SIGNIFICANTLY deflated. And the Patriots have a lineage of cheating and/or "bending the rules". They don't get the benefit of the doubt anymore. Lol, Bingo! Fact don't matter, you've made up you mind based upon what you want the outcome to be.

Another thing. I don't know how often I've seen members of the media react to a press conference before where they come out and say "I didn't believe him" and "I thought he was lying" like they did yesterday. It's not just Pats haters in CT or NY. So unpopularity = guilt?

 

[UChusky916]

I think you're so biased that you cannot be rational.

Then you give me a 'rational' explanation of how 11 of the 12 balls ended up 2 PSI below specs in-game when they were approved by officials pre-game?

The only one I could think of is that the officials didn't check the balls thoroughly. If that's the case, fine, and the official is going to be in deep shit. Either way, the Patriots are trying to play the game with under-inflated footballs, which is not allowed.

And I find it hard to believe that the officials didn't do their job since there are reports that the Colts had complaints about the Pat's under-inflated balls during the regular season game and even the Ravens tipped the Colts to the footballs as well. So I would think a thorough check would be made pre-game. And since the officials swapped out the footballs at the half, they clearly noticed a difference in the footballs than the ones they approved pre-game otherwise they would not have approved them.

 

[boba]

b) If the NFL finds no evidence tampering, I would still obviously have doubt in my mind. It's a matter of logic. Indy's 12 balls were okay. All 12 Pats balls were SIGNIFICANTLY deflated. And the Patriots have a lineage of cheating and/or "bending the rules". They don't get the benefit of the doubt anymore.

Nothing to do with logic, everything to do with ingrained bias.
Off the top of my head:

• Faulty pressure gauge
• Differences water vapor content in gas used to inflate
• Differences in inflation procedure
• There was no difference - the narrative provided so far is inaccurate.

I worked QA for many years, in science or engineering for 3 times that period. I can cite numerous examples where anomalous results occurred as a result of different procedures, different materials, or faulty test equipment. Until the NFL come out and says something substantial, all you are doing is speculation based on internal bias.

 

[John]

Then you give me a 'rational' explanation of how 11 of the 12 balls ended up 2 PSI below specs in-game when they were approved by officials pre-game?

The only one I could think of is that the officials didn't check the balls thoroughly. If that's the case, fine, and the official is going to be in deep . Either way, the Patriots are trying to play the game with under-inflated footballs, which is not allowed.

And I find it hard to believe that the officials didn't do their job since there are reports that the Colts had complaints about the Pat's under-inflated balls during the regular season game and even the Ravens tipped the Colts to the footballs as well. So I would think a thorough check would be made pre-game. And since the officials swapped out the footballs at the half, they clearly noticed a difference in the footballs than the ones they approved pre-game otherwise they would not have approved them.

I don't have an explanation because I'm sitting at my computer in CT and am not involved in the investigation. I'm awaiting the results. In another era you'd be shouting to "Burn The Witch". Let the process play out, we're operating on rumors and heresay now. Unless you still want to burn the witch, but that's up to you.

 

[mauconnfan]

Wow this thread gets more comical by the reply. Am I biased, hell yeah hate the Pats and it's easy to see why - read the replies. I live around these whacko's! LOL

Here's the problem, I hate them so I have a bias but I can admit I do. They love them but can't admit anything, instead all of you continue to deflect any questions that will lead you to admitting the truth. Not one fan has stepped up and said what should be said:
"Ok they screwed around with the balsl but shouldn't have. Made no difference we kicked their butts and we will do the same to the Seahawks next Sunday with all the balls inflated to whatever spec's are required. Then what will be the complaint?"

But instead they act as expected, almighty. Just like Papi - "prove it to me, they never proved it with him like they did with ARod"

Just, for the most part, a very arrogant group of fans who live on their own little island since the successes began in the 90's. I admit, the Seahawks can't beat them bad enough for my liking!Now more than ever