OT: "Ode to NY" by #2 | Page 8 | The Boneyard

OT: "Ode to NY" by #2

Status
Not open for further replies.
Incester,
Where did you hear anyone say Ortiz isn't a dangerous presence in the post season? I still feel the anxiety. You are all over the place trying to make your case.
 
Blah blah blah. The best thing about today is once the game is played ARod's suspension is over. See you in Tampa
 
Deepster said:
This is nothing but sentimental pablum. Spoon fed by the media to us for years, now from you to us here.

First off, HE didn't win an awful lot. He was the benefactor of being on great teams and in the right place at the right time. And having Mariano Rivera pitch the 9th inning of every game in his career didn't hurt that.

Second, you don't get "credit" for doing the right things like not cheating, not taking steroids, never saying stupid things to the media or not getting arrested. I don't get a pat on the back because I went all day without murdering someone. He played in a tough media market and didn't duckk up. From where I sit, he got paid 266 million dollars over his career and was smart enough to keep his mouth shut. You don't get anointed for that.

Lastly, he did "create a night" like last night. He created it by forcing the entire league to fake a season long blow job with this retirement tour. And he capped the special season by singling in a run in a meaningless game with his team 13 games back in the standings, then milking it for every drop it was worth. For me? I'll take the way Michael Young did it. The majority of his hitting stats over their prime years are dead on to Jeter's. He moved to 2B when it made sense for the team and Elvis Andrus came up. He didn't stay at SS and force everyone to watch 6 hoppers skip under his glove for the last 4 years. Like Jeter? He never got arrested or got caught cheating or saying anything stupid in the media. Ron Washington said "His attitude every single day was exemplary," Washington said. "Simply the way Michael went about his business and the professionalism he showed took them [his teammates] to a level they didn't think they had."

You know what he did? In January, he hung 'em up before the season started. He made 16.0m in 2013 and admitted he could have "hung on" for another year with the Dodgers but he didn't think it was right, wanted to be with his family and retired gracefully instead.

http://espn.go.com/dallas/mlb/story/_/id/10384957/michael-young-officially-retires-texas-rangers

Good riddance to this Jeter retirement nonsense. Overrated his entire career, right through to the last game.
Expand ...

I loved Michael Young. A real quality player. Always thought he would look good in pinstripes. However Michael Young is to Derek Jeter as Stephen Drew is to Michael Young. There is no GM so stupid in the history of the game that they wouldn't trade 2 Michael Young's for 1 Derek Jeter.

"The majority of his hitting stats over their prime years are dead on to Jeter's" - well possibly but then again I guess his prime didn't last half so long, did it?

Career stats for Young, .300 BA, 2375 hits,1137 Runs, .787 OPS.
For Jeter .310, 3465, 1923, .817.

The reason Young didn't take a victory lap is because nobody cared. The same reason that nobody cared about Konerko hanging them up. For almost 20 years when the announcers at the little leauge world series asked the players who their favorite major leauger was, Jeter's name came up more often than anyone else, didn't matter if the kid was from Oklahoma or Taiwan. His fame may well be disproportionate to his talent, but apparently winning those titles in NY helps your public image, beyond helping you bag some hot babes. At this point he's famous for being famous, and he carries it well. Would Michael Young have carried it as well under the same conditions - we'll never know. In the mean time, trying to lessen Jeter by comparing him to Michael Young reveals a level of desperation that is fairly pathetic.
 
intlzncster said:
Did the Captain get one grooved in the 9th on Thursday night? Analysis to follow. Also thoughts on Jeter's overall skills and "captain clutchiness".

Now calculating Even Meek’s pitching in the last 7 months:

Avg Speed Delta of Mean Variance (Theta^2)
90.1 -1.357 1.841 Mean: 91.457
90.2 -1.257 1.580 Variance: 1.272
90.6 -0.857 0.734 Std Dev: 2.984
92.1 0.643 0.413
91.6 0.143 0.020
92.2 0.743 0.551
93.4 1.943 3.770
91.457 8.909

Variance: 8.909 / 7 = 1.272

Standard Deviation = Sq. Rt of 8.909 = 2.984

91.457(Average FB) – 86.1(Jeter FB) = 5.357mph

5.357mph (Delta of Avg FB and Jeter FBs) / 2.984 (Std. Dev) = 1.795 Standard Deviations from the mean

1.8 Std Deviations = .96407 %

1 – .96407 = .03593% Chance

Jeter’s BA: .255 Std. Deviation %: .03593

.255 (Jetere BA) = 1 in 3.921 .03593 (FB @ 86.1 mph %) = 1 in 27.831

Chances of Derek Jeter Getting a hit on a 86.1 mph Fastball from Evan Meek: 1/109.12 chance

Derek Jeter had a 0.9 % Chance of doing that naturally last night

OVERALL THOUGHTS ON JETER:

Great in the 90′s, above avg in the early 00′s, average end of 00′s, worst player in baseball since 2010… the stats say it all. I ing hate Yankee Fanboys.

Close and late game situations for Derek Jeter all time in the playoffs – CAPTAIN CLUTCH? More like Mr. Hopefully Make Some Contact.

7th inning or later: Leading by 1, tied, or have the tie run in the on deck circle:

Player Team Pos G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS
2012
Jeter, D NYY SS - 7 0 2 0 0 0 0 0 2 0 0 .286 .286 .286 .571
2011
Jeter, D NYY SS - 3 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 0 0 .000 .000 .000 .000
2010
Jeter, D NYY SS - 3 0 2 1 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 .667 .667 1.000 1.667
2009
Jeter, D NYY SS - 8 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 4 0 0 .000 .200 .000 .200
2007
Jeter, D NYY SS - 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 .000 .000 .000 .000
2006
Jeter, D NYY SS - 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 .000 .000 .000 .000
2005
Jeter, D NYY SS - 1 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 .000 .000 .000 .000
2004
Jeter, D NYY SS - 7 1 0 0 0 0 0 2 1 0 0 .000 .222 .000 .222
2003
Jeter, D NYY SS - 9 2 2 2 0 0 0 0 3 0 0 .222 .222 .444 .667
2001
Jeter, D NYY SS - 9 2 2 0 0 1 1 1 1 0 0 .222 .300 .556 .856
2000
Jeter, D NYY SS - 9 1 2 0 0 0 0 2 4 0 0 .222 .364 .222 .586
1999
Jeter, D NYY SS - 7 0 5 0 0 0 2 1 0 0 0 .714 .750 .714 1.464

LINK
Expand ...

If Buck Showalter believed Meeks grooved one to Jeter with the Orioles fighting for best overall record and therefore home field advantage throughout the playoffs, he would've cut him from the team on the spot. That's not saying he didn't do it, it's been done before (see Denny McLain to Mickey Mantle for #535), but I can't recall it being done in a game that mattered before. As for the velocity of the fastball, who says it was a fastball, as opposed to a slider that didn't slide? In either case, I don't really give a rat's ass, I enjoyed the moment, and if Meeks grooved it, thank you Mr. Meeks.

As for your playoff stats, if I can read your chart properly I think you've come up with 31 ABs out of the 650 he had in the playoffs. Since every at bat is a clutch situation in the playoffs (that is what makes post season play so compelling) picking 31 at bats out of 650 to base your analysis on is the kind of BS that is defined by the phrase "you use statistics the way a drunk uses a lightpost - for support instead of illumination.". The "flip" came late in a crucial 1-0 elimination play-off game, he hit a walk off world series home run against Arizona, he hit the game tying HR against the Mets in the deciding game, along with making a great throw to nail a runner at home from the outfield in game 1 of that series, and that's just off the top of my head. He was not the best clutch player of all time in the play-offs, I don't think he was any better than Bernie Williams or Paul O'Neil on that team, but he is one of the rare great players that was better in the play offs than he was during the regular season.

As for the worst player in baseball since 2010 ... I'm sure by that you mean the worst "starting" player since 2010, even someone with your intellectual dishonesty will have to admit he wasn't worse than guys who barely played, I mean he was +5 WAR between 2010 and 2013. So if the statement was that he was the worst starter over the five years when he was older than 35, including a year when he was out with a broken ankle - I'd have to figure that was about average for great ballplayers at that age, at least the ones that weren't taking steroids or HGH. How good was Willie Mays at that age, or Mickey Mantle or George Brett - I don't have the stats, but I'm guessing they're all pretty similar (with the exception of Ted Williams and Hank Aaron.)

All your arguments, with all your stats and statistical variations add nothing to the conversation. Jeter is easily one of the top five shortstops of all time and he raised his game in playoff competition. He's not Honus Wagner, he's not Ernie Banks, but he's 6th all time in hits, 9th in runs scored, he has five rings and he's a first ballot hall of famer on merit. And there's nothing your envy can do to change that.
 
Deadrody said:
You're absolutely kidding me. Derek Jeter played SS in case you missed it. The idea that he isn't a unanimous, first ballot, no-brainer HOFer and one of the best ever is laughably stupid.
Expand ...
Jeter will get in on the first ballot to the HOF and he deserves it. He wasn't a great defensive SS but he was pretty good and consistent. His offensive numbers alone get him on the first ballot but what I liked about him is that he never dogged it and his situational hitting was beyond outstanding.
 
.-.
Onions said:
I loved Michael Young. A real quality player. Always thought he would look good in pinstripes. However Michael Young is to Derek Jeter as Stephen Drew is to Michael Young. There is no GM so stupid in the history of the game that they wouldn't trade 2 Michael Young's for 1 Derek Jeter.

"The majority of his hitting stats over their prime years are dead on to Jeter's" - well possibly but then again I guess his prime didn't last half so long, did it?

Career stats for Young, .300 BA, 2375 hits,1137 Runs, .787 OPS.
For Jeter .310, 3465, 1923, .817.

The reason Young didn't take a victory lap is because nobody cared. The same reason that nobody cared about Konerko hanging them up. For almost 20 years when the announcers at the little leauge world series asked the players who their favorite major leauger was, Jeter's name came up more often than anyone else, didn't matter if the kid was from Oklahoma or Taiwan. His fame may well be disproportionate to his talent, but apparently winning those titles in NY helps your public image, beyond helping you bag some hot babes. At this point he's famous for being famous, and he carries it well. Would Michael Young have carried it as well under the same conditions - we'll never know. In the mean time, trying to lessen Jeter by comparing him to Michael Young reveals a level of desperation that is fairly pathetic.
Expand ...

Beginning with the first year they became a full time player, Young played 12 full time seasons after that. For those first twelve seasons (2002-2013 for Young and 1996-2007 for Jeter) the hitting stats are:
Games: 1,820 Jeter - 1,862 Young
At Bats: 7,381 Jeter - 7,530 Young
Hits: 2,344 Jeter - 2,279 Young (yearly difference of 5 hits)
2B: 382 Jeter - 423 Young
3B: 53 Jeter - 56 Young
HR: 195 Jeter - 174 Young
RBI: 926 Jeter - 981 Young
Avg: .318 Jeter - .303 Young
From there, Jeter played 7 more seasons than Young, hitting .300 or more in 3 of them (.300, .334 and .316) and under .300 in 4 of them (.270, .297, .256 and .190 in an injury shortened 2013). In his last 5 seasons, Jeter hit .283.
I don't think the comparison is pathetic at all. Young's career was shorter and his prime was shorter by a couple years and Jeter hung on, playing SS and batting 2nd for 2 years too long.
 
Should we just forget about all the other years then? Young was a great player and was more than likely as good as Jeter for a long time. Add 3 more .300 plus and a .297 to a few more years and the comparison is over. it would seem Young is like Mattingly in the fact they were really good but their careers were too short.

And not make any accusations, but Young was playing with Juan G, Gabe P a few others who had raisin sacks so I always thought there may be a chance. Hence the early breakdown in career suddenly?
 
Deepster said:
Beginning with the first year they became a full time player, Young played 12 full time seasons after that. For those first twelve seasons (2002-2013 for Young and 1996-2007 for Jeter) the hitting stats are:
Games: 1,820 Jeter - 1,862 Young
At Bats: 7,381 Jeter - 7,530 Young
Hits: 2,344 Jeter - 2,279 Young (yearly difference of 5 hits)
2B: 382 Jeter - 423 Young
3B: 53 Jeter - 56 Young
HR: 195 Jeter - 174 Young
RBI: 926 Jeter - 981 Young
Avg: .318 Jeter - .303 Young
From there, Jeter played 7 more seasons than Young, hitting .300 or more in 3 of them (.300, .334 and .316) and under .300 in 4 of them (.270, .297, .256 and .190 in an injury shortened 2013). In his last 5 seasons, Jeter hit .283.
I don't think the comparison is pathetic at all. Young's career was shorter and his prime was shorter by a couple years and Jeter hung on, playing SS and batting 2nd for 2 years too long.
Expand ...

Maintaining your career for another 4 highly productive seasons (lumping his .297 in with the bad seasons tells me all I need to know about your arguments) with 2 more +WAR seasons is exactly the difference between a hall of famer and a very good player. I'm guessing there are hundreds of players who would be hall of famers except they couldn't maintain their production long enough. Like I said Young is to Jeter like Stephen Drew is to Young.

As for 2 years too long, one of those seasons was when he broke his ankle and had 63 ABs, hardly what I would call "hanging on", especially since he hit .316 the year before. As for this year, his worst ever, he was still marginally +WAR and the Yankees had no better options at his position. As bad as he was he was the best SS on the team and he helped the Yanks to a winning season. You can make the argument that he shouldn't have batted second the whole year, on the other hand I could make the argument that he should have been rested a lot more (he had 581 ABs) which would have improved his numbers, but instead took one for the team, especially when Drew proved to be such a disaster.
 
mauconnfan said:
Should we just forget about all the other years then? Young was a great player and was more than likely as good as Jeter for a long time. Add 3 more .300 plus and a .297 to a few more years and the comparison is over. it would seem Young is like Mattingly in the fact they were really good but their careers were too short.

And not make any accusations, but Young was playing with Juan G, Gabe P a few others who had raisin sacks so I always thought there may be a chance. Hence the early breakdown in career suddenly?
Expand ...

From all accounts, Young was as good a guy, if not better than Jeter off the field. If you're going to lump him in with steroid users, you have to lump in Jeter as well.
 
mauconnfan said:
Should we just forget about all the other years then? Young was a great player and was more than likely as good as Jeter for a long time. Add 3 more .300 plus and a .297 to a few more years and the comparison is over. it would seem Young is like Mattingly in the fact they were really good but their careers were too short.

And not make any accusations, but Young was playing with Juan G, Gabe P a few others who had raisin sacks so I always thought there may be a chance. Hence the early breakdown in career suddenly?
Expand ...

Young was not like Mattingly. Young was very good for a number of years, Mattingly was herculean for a couple of years. Mattingly was more like Guidry - unbelievably great over a period of about 5 years, but couldn't sustain that level long enough to be a HOFr, except in my heart.

As to the other, I believe in innocent till proven guilty. It becomes a witch hunt to insinuate that stuff without any evidence whatsoever except guilt by association. Young's career trajectory was the norm up until the PED years, nothing about it suggests anything else.
 
Deepster said:
From all accounts, Young was as good a guy, if not better than Jeter off the field. If you're going to lump him in with steroid users, you have to lump in Jeter as well.
Expand ...

Fair enough because we don't know it either joined ARod and Papi on the list......
 
.-.
Oye!
Yeah, Jeter sucked. He just happened to have the 6th most hits in history. He had a bad year this year on his way out and was injured last year. That means his last 5 years sucked. But if you count the last 5 years he played, his average average was 295. Worst in baseball. If you omit this year he had previously been stinking up the team batting 304. A clear sign that he should have been benched.

Just grow up. If you want to make the case that winning all those WS and playing in NY and making some memorable plays when everyone was watching gave him more publicity, fine. That there were people comparable to DJ put for far less years, fine. But Jeter is the only one who did what he did. Period. And he was great!
 
David 76 said:
Oye!

Just grow up. If you want to make the case that winning all those WS and playing in NY and making some memorable plays when everyone was watching gave him more publicity, fine. That there were people comparable to DJ put for far less years, fine. But Jeter is the only one who did what he did. Period. And he was great!
Expand ...

You're arguing with someone on the internet about a baseball player and he needs to grow up?
 
I think he does. I am another matter. You are under suspicion too.

I think if we were all totally mature this website wouldn't exist. But trashing a guy who is a clear hall of fame player as he is retiring is a whole other level. Quite frankly, I couldn't imagine doing it to any star player from any other team. Even Curt Schilling.
 
David 76 said:
I think he does. I am another matter. You are under suspicion too.

I think if we were all totally mature this website wouldn't exist. But trashing a guy who is a clear hall of fame player as he is retiring is a whole other level. Quite frankly, I couldn't imagine doing it to any star player from any other team. Even Curt Schilling.
Expand ...

I don't understand your logic. Because I don't fall over backward in awe over Derek Jeter, I'm immature? I just don't get the hype and I've found that any time someone hints at that, Yankee fanboys collectively lose their minds. Like you did.

I never said he wasn't a hall of famer. But so is Eddie Murray. And like Jeter, he just played well for a long time. Good accomplishments...but not nearly deserved of the over-publicized nonsense we saw the last two weeks.
 
.-.
Wow, this argument is still alive & not locked yet? Amazing...
At the end of the day, Jeter will be in the Hall of Fame, whether any of us like it or not. They are already planning for it.
 
I wasn't singling you out. It is 8 pages of people saying things about how Jeter sucked, was below average, was the worst player in baseball the last 5 years. Pretty irrational stuff that I think comes from someplace I don't understand. Sorry if it came out on you.
I like Young and your statements about him are reasonable. But you do get more credit for doing it longer. I actually think the goodbye tour was too long and felt flat. I also know Jeter wasn't a "carry the team" type of player. Like I said, those comments are fine but the bashing is weird.

I can't imagine there having been a good-bye ceremony for Ted Williams and that I would go to post how lousy his defense was (no, I don't think he was that bad) But I would have respect for his contribution to baseball (And please, I know Williams is better than Jeter. I'm going for the "need to rain on someone's parade" factor.

My 2nd last response was an attempt at sarcastic humor. On a thread where we were all arguing about a baseball player, I didn't originally understand why I was being told I had issues for arguing about one.

Anyway, my apologies.
 
I thought you might have issues because you're arguing about a baseball player and then you decide to mock Curt Schilling as he battles cancer.
 
StevieDude said:
I thought you might have issues because you're arguing about a baseball player and then you decide to mock Curt Schilling as he battles cancer.
Expand ...

What are you talking about? Please show where he mocked Curt Schilling.
 
StevieDude said:
Guy has cancer and you still have to give him shots. I think you might have issues
Expand ...

Good lord.

And with this bit of profound stupidity, the thread has clearly lived too long.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Forum statistics

Threads
168,249
Messages
4,559,794
Members
10,448
Latest member
MillerLitEd


Top Bottom