Or it could just be that Houston is a pretty good team that has given everything they have and Golden State still won. These teams are so much better than what is in the East that it isn't even funny. Cleveland has the best player, but he is going to have to go crazy every game to win the finals.
OT: NBA SemiFinals
- Thread starter Kitaman
- Start date
- Status
Or it could just be that Houston is a pretty good team that has given everything they have and Golden State still won. These teams are so much better than what is in the East that it isn't even funny. Cleveland has the best player, but he is going to have to go crazy every game to win the finals.
- Joined
- May 6, 2015
- Messages
- 1,140
- Reaction Score
- 2,896
GS was giving it everything they had and they won by a point. At home. On a turnover.
Surely you don't believe that a one point win at home means that they are unbeatable? That would be very odd. What the win last night did was show that that GS is vulnerable. 2 games in Houston will give us more info.
"So much better than what is in the East." We'll know in a few weeks.
- Joined
- Aug 29, 2011
- Messages
- 4,418
- Reaction Score
- 7,725
By whom though? Houston just doesn't commit to defense for an entire game and they have Josh Smith who vacillates between a dumpster fire & 2nd coming of Sheed. Spurs likely would have knocked off the Warriors and the Clippers v Warriors would have been a much better series due to the animosity.
The Spurs weren't going to knock GS off. They just didn't quite have it this year. If they did, they never would have lost their regular season finale and ended up with an unfavorable playoff seed. As for the Clippers, I don't know how they could have played GS any better than Houston has. That's what I think anyway.
- Joined
- Aug 25, 2011
- Messages
- 17,162
- Reaction Score
- 36,256
All I know is that Curry is not disappearing, which is scary for opponents. Like Lebron with him on your team opponents have to play extremely well with few mistakes (hence Harden's turnover) to beat them. Houston is a very good team and I expect them to bounce back at home.
As for Atlanta/Cavs tonight's game will be telling. I don't think the Hawks can win one in Cleveland which would be thier death sentence. However they like Houston field a very good team (group) and can make noise. I just don't see the Hawks having that 'go to' guy in crunch time.
As for Atlanta/Cavs tonight's game will be telling. I don't think the Hawks can win one in Cleveland which would be thier death sentence. However they like Houston field a very good team (group) and can make noise. I just don't see the Hawks having that 'go to' guy in crunch time.
- Joined
- Feb 10, 2013
- Messages
- 6,381
- Reaction Score
- 61,516
They played a C- game, and still beat a 58-win team.
Here's where Golden State will end up historically:
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-best-nba-teams-of-all-time-according-to-elo/
.-.
- Joined
- May 6, 2015
- Messages
- 1,140
- Reaction Score
- 2,896
What? How on earth do you come to that conclusion.?
- Joined
- Feb 10, 2013
- Messages
- 6,381
- Reaction Score
- 61,516
Because I watched them about 65 times this year. They didn't move the ball as well as they could have, weren't able to figure out Houston's trapping scheme early (credit to McHale for that), and neither Klay nor Dray hit the open looks they usually nail.
I don't have access to SportVu stats, but I'd wager the Dubs undershot their "total passes per game" count by about 15%. Again: credit in part goes to McHale & the Rockets for that. He's a very good coach and they're a borderline great team.
But I'm pretty confident the Dubs will come out on Sunday, after having watched tape, and both find and create more gaps to exploit.
- Joined
- May 6, 2015
- Messages
- 1,140
- Reaction Score
- 2,896
Just so you know, you sound like Izzo after we beat them in 14 - "We just didn't play out best game."
GS has by no means looked impressive against Houston. Game 1 was close, and Game 2 was a nailbiter.
I'll be a lot more convinced of the Legend of the GSW if they can win 1 in Houston, and I'll be really impressed if they can win 2.
If they lose 2, they're overrated.
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2011
- Messages
- 5,918
- Reaction Score
- 10,556
i would be weary of fivethirtyeight , same site that claims wiggins is the worst ROY ever and is nothing more than a poor mans james posey.
GSW is so explosive they go on these insane runs that just knock you out... however they haven't really won in convincing fashion verse a wildly hobbled houston club. D12 was at like >50% health wise, not to mention the rockets A. have a point guard rotation of jason terry, Prigioni, and nick johnson (!), B. rely heavily on clint capella and corey brewer. in the WCF no less ... I definitely have houston stealing a game at home. Warriors in 6?
GSW is so explosive they go on these insane runs that just knock you out... however they haven't really won in convincing fashion verse a wildly hobbled houston club. D12 was at like >50% health wise, not to mention the rockets A. have a point guard rotation of jason terry, Prigioni, and nick johnson (!), B. rely heavily on clint capella and corey brewer. in the WCF no less ... I definitely have houston stealing a game at home. Warriors in 6?
I'm wary of teams that take a lot of contested threes.. Curry just happens to be unbelievable.. him and Klay hit a mini-slump for 2 games and they're in big trouble. Cleveland has the ultimate trump card in LeBron. He can create a high percentage shot for himself or a teammate at any crucial time of the game. Your defense has to adjust to him. If you have LeBron, good size (they do.. Mozgov is better than people think and Thompson is an absolute maniac on the boards) and 2 good shooters (between Kyrie, JR, and James Jones) they're difficult to guard. Then Shumpert has a good midrange game, he's better off the bounce than people think, and he's as tough as they come on the defensive end. When Kevin Love is healthy, they're impossible to guard. If Kyrie was healthy, I'd say they wouldn't lose again. Chris Webber made a great point last night. Kyrie being hurt certainly doesn't help them, but it doesn't kill them bc he's still a great 3-pt shooter so you can still spot him up and use him to space the floor. You can't leave him open. They're going to beat ATL in 6 games though. And likewise with the Warriors. LeBron doesn't have to have his jumper going and he doesn't have to shoot a great % to dominate a game. He was subpar in the Chicago series and he still totally dictated the games. He makes everybody on the team a little better than they actually are.
Like a few people said, Houston was right there the first 2 games (and I don't really think much of the Rockets honestly.. but man can Harden put the ball in the hole), they just didn't get it done when they had the chance.
I can't believe what seems to be the utter lack of respect for a Houston team that finished second in the Western conference. I can only conclude it is because people look at the names, not at what the players actually do on the court. To have the season they had while fighting the injuries that they had to deal with all season is pretty amazing. If they are healthy next year, they are a 60 win team and a legit title contender. I guess they are technically a contender now, but having to go through Golden State just to win your conference sort of negates that.
.-.
- Joined
- Aug 29, 2011
- Messages
- 4,418
- Reaction Score
- 7,725
Both true folks undervaluing Houston's regular season and over penalizing Cavaliers for mediocrity before they assimilated current players.
But then again I watched all of Cavs-Celts and was unimpressed. So I'm still in trap of thinking ATL stinks vs Giving Cleveland their due. Cleveland is so good that Atlanta is quitting.
But then again I watched all of Cavs-Celts and was unimpressed. So I'm still in trap of thinking ATL stinks vs Giving Cleveland their due. Cleveland is so good that Atlanta is quitting.
- Joined
- Feb 10, 2013
- Messages
- 6,381
- Reaction Score
- 61,516
Harden's not going to keep shooting 60% on long 2s (he's 14-for-23 on those shots through 2 games) when he hit 35% of those shots during the season. He will regress to the mean, and when that happens, Houston have no chance.
Shaq is right Lebron is a lot like Magic more then MJ, he is so under control and more determined then ever, I do think MJ cared more about putting up stats then Lebron does. Cavs might be able to rest up Kyrie for the Finals the way this series is going.
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2011
- Messages
- 9,569
- Reaction Score
- 24,363
Cleveland just thumped a team twice that had previously been 35-6 in their gym. I'm done taking them lightly.
Over a small sample size (ie 5 games), there's a chance he might not. Great players are great for a reason. And even if he does cool off, he can get into the paint virtually at will and create cheap points via FTs and set-ups for dunks/layups for his teammates.
Last edited:
Cleveland has size, good defenders, and the best player on the floor. They always have an above average chance in any game, home or away. Most players' effectiveness is really closely tied to how well they shoot the ball but LeBron is the rare player where that's not true. Even when's not shooting well he's creating high percentage shots for his teammates. And he's going to get his just bc he's that good.
.-.
I'm amazed that some people are only now just saying this. Maybe people are finally done with expecting James to play like Jordan did and just accept the fact that the guy is damn good at moving the ball and likes to do it a lot.
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2011
- Messages
- 13,460
- Reaction Score
- 35,978
Well, they did it to a team missing a key player from their second unit (Sefolosha) and with a key injury in their first (Carroll). The Hawks don't have a superstar, and so their team is all about balance...balance which they've lost. They've got no one healthy to defend LeBron, their second unit can't make much headway, and the Cavs' defense can key in the few healthy cogs. Now, the Cavs are missing Love and Irving is hurt, so the wins are impressive in their own way, but they're beating JV teams.
This feels like last year all over again. LeBron's team fights its way through a terrible conference, and people think the Spurs-Heat is a toss-up...instead, Spurs murdered them. With a gimpy Irving and without Love, this Cavs team gets beat by either Houston or Golden State. Golden State, in particular, will rip them a new one if they meet and Irving is still hurt: Draymond Green can at least bother LeBron, there's no one to hide Irving on, and who do you put LeBron on?
I'm very impressed with LeBron willing this team to the finals. Five Finals in a row is impressive, even out of the East. But it will likely hurt his legacy (in the weird ways in which people talk about this) because he's going to be 2-4 in the Finals after this year.
- Joined
- May 6, 2015
- Messages
- 1,140
- Reaction Score
- 2,896
Yes, and Atlanta was ranked #1 against elite teams a little while back http://hoopshabit.com/2015/03/04/atlanta-hawks-stack-leagues-elite/
- Joined
- May 6, 2015
- Messages
- 1,140
- Reaction Score
- 2,896
Last night the Cavs were missing Love - a starter and a three time all star, and Irving - a starter and a three time all star and one of the best point guards in the NBA. Further, Shumpert is playing with a sore groin, and LeBron has rolled his ankle twice.
The Hawks were missing a backup player in Sefolosha whose only accolade was a 2nd team defensive player in 2010, and who averaged 5 pts and 4 boards a game, and Carroll was banged up, but played 33 minutes and got his @ss handed to him in Game 1 anyway, so no reason to believe the result would have been different this time if not for the sore knee.
And the Cavs handled them on their home court and looked like they were toying with them late.
And based on those facts you conclude that it's not about the Cavs being impressive but rather the Hawks are a "JV" team? Wow. That is epic level reaching.
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2011
- Messages
- 13,460
- Reaction Score
- 35,978
Wow. Did you not even read my whole post? I talked about the players the Cavs were missing, and I think they are impressive in continuing to win...but sure, I absolutely think--with their injuries--they would have been out in the first round (depending on the draw) of the Western Conference. The East is horrible.
And anyone who thought the Hawks were going to win the title--or could really win a series against the West's powers (Golden State, Memphis, San Antonio, LA Clippers, Houston)--was deluding themselves. They went 33-2 from late November to the end of January, and were 27-20 outside of that streak--solid, but on pace for 47 wins rather than the 60 they got. Considering that, even with the easiest path to the ECF, they still dropped two games to the horrible Nets and the Wizards (with an injured Wall!), that should give you a sense of their true identity.
Once the Cavs got Smith, Shumpert, and Mozgov, they were the best team in the East. They went 34-12...a 61 win pace.
But they weren't historically good where they should be able to have an injury hobble their second best player, and wholly eliminate their 3rd, and still be able to, as you put it, "toy" with the "1-seed" of their conference on the road. The fact that they are smoking the Hawks with all those injuries rather proves my point than contradicts it.
.-.
- Joined
- May 6, 2015
- Messages
- 1,140
- Reaction Score
- 2,896
Tonight's game is going to be interesting. If the GSWs win, I'll start believing. Cavs have the potential to sweep. If the Rockets/GSW go 6 or 7, it improves the Cavs chances in the finals.
To be clear - If the Cavs beat the GSWs in the finals, then you'd agree that the dominance of the West was overrated? Or no?
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2011
- Messages
- 13,460
- Reaction Score
- 35,978
No. That's one datapoint only accounting for one 7-game series.
I'd believe in the dominance of LeBron James.
Look at the two other data-points:
- The East went 187-263 (0.415) vs. the West...all this despite injuries to Durant in the West.
- When the East's 7th and 8th best teams didn't even finish .500...and the 6th best team was only .500. Conversely, the West's 1-7 all have 50 wins...so they were equivalent to the East's 3-seed.
- Joined
- Aug 29, 2011
- Messages
- 4,418
- Reaction Score
- 7,725
I think Houston wins tonight and that takes nothing away from how good the Warriors are or how good the west is vs the east. Houston is good by virtue of their regular season record and beating the Clips who beat the Spurs. Harden gets a favorable whistle tonight so unless both Curry & Clay are liquid hot the Rockets win.
Agree 1,000% that if Cavs upset either West team it means both LeBron even greater than we think AND what we think we know about West superiority is suspect.
- Joined
- May 6, 2015
- Messages
- 1,140
- Reaction Score
- 2,896
What's the point of being better if you don't win? If the GSWs lose to the Cavs in the finals, then you'd have to agree with the following:
The East had the best team.
The West had better teams, in the aggregate, than the East.
No?
- Joined
- May 6, 2015
- Messages
- 1,140
- Reaction Score
- 2,896
Right on. Course, I expect the GSW short shorts, who are already, it seems, placing them in the pantheon of great NBA teams, would find excuses as to why neither was true.
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2011
- Messages
- 13,460
- Reaction Score
- 35,978
What's the point of being better if you don't win? The West isn't playing the East for the title; a Western team (probably the Warriors) will play the Cavs. Being the best conference doesn't bring bragging rights. But it is a fact that the West if far superior to the East, and that won't change with the outcome of the Finals.
As to your conclusions, of course you'd say that. Especially if the Cavs win without Irving and a gimpy Love. And, sadly, it's possible that the Cavs had the best team already, and the injuries have likely ruined that. With Love and and a healthy Irving, I may have picked the Cavs over the Warriors. Even given that, I'd bet LeBron gets a win or two in the Finals.
.-.
- Status