OT: NBA Offseason

[HuskyHawk]

Kawhi is unquestionably one of the two best players in the league for 2019-20.

So he's "unquestionably" better than Giannis? What? Or is LeBron no longer one of the best?

 

[nelsonmuntz]

I don't know that it would be the three best players of all time. I think that's a stretch. But show me a team that made a long run of success with a similar roster.

Showtime Lakers had: Magic, Jabaar, Worthy but also Byron Scott, Cooper, Rambis, AC Green
Bulls had Jordan, Pippen, Rodman, plus Armstrong, Kerr, Harper, Kukoc etc.
Celtics had Bird, McHale, DJ or Tiny, Parish, and filled in with quality guys around them...Ainge, Carr etc.

I've never seen a team win a championship with three great players and a bunch of guys who were below average in the league.

What some of these "Lakers will dominate" posters fail to realize is that the players around them wouldn't be below average. They would be terrible, not really even NBA caliber talent. Who are these "ring chasers" that auror and superjohn think are waiting by their phones? Bogut was one of those "ring chasers". He was $2.4 million, played in 11 regular season and 19 playoff games this season, and was not much more than a warm body. Levingston made $8MM this year, and Iquodola mate $18MM. Players don't work for free.

Once Klay got hurt, the Warriors had no chance. They wouldn't have made it out of the first round of the playoffs without Durant and Thompson, not because they didn't have enough stars, but the players like Cook, Jones and Jerebko were glorified G League players. Portland lost its starting center and third best player near the end of the season, but it had Enes Kanter at Center and made it to the conference finals. Depth matters.

Finally, Toronto doesn't get out of the second round of the playoffs without Marc Gasol, who was a late season pickup, and Vanvleet, a reserve, playing great down the stretch and in the playoffs. Toronto went 8 deep and all 8 of those players were critical to winning the Title.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

So he's "unquestionably" better than Giannis? What? Or is LeBron no longer one of the best?

They are all the best player in the NBA. Along with Kyrie. And Durant. And whoever the other flavor of the month is.

 

[superjohn]

So he's "unquestionably" better than Giannis? What? Or is LeBron no longer one of the best?

Lebron, Kawhi, KD, Giannis

 

[superjohn]

They are all the best player in the NBA. Along with Kyrie. And Durant. And whoever the other flavor of the month is.

What? Kyrie isn't top 10.

 

[Dogdeacon]

I don't want Kawhi to sign with LA (and wasn't the whole reason he left SA to be a more noticeable star? Why join the milky way if that's the goal?!), but that would be a pretty fascinating experiment. How much better can 3 of the top 5 or 6 NBA players be versus balanced teams? It definitely would not be as much of a favorite or super team as the healthy Warriors have been for the last 3 seasons. The Warriors had 2 of top 6 and 4/5 starters in the top-20, plus a better bench than most.

Would the Lakers strategy be to build 30pt leads with their super-four and then let the reserves try to only lose by half that? Or could they be 10+pts better than everyone with a super-three and then one of their stars holds down the fort with the scrubs? Again I'm not rooting for it, but it would be different, interesting and definitely FAR from a defacto championship.

 

[johnhuskies95]

What some of these "Lakers will dominate" posters fail to realize is that the players around them wouldn't be below average. They would be terrible, not really even NBA caliber talent. Who are these "ring chasers" that auror and superjohn think are waiting by their phones? Bogut was one of those "ring chasers". He was $2.4 million, played in 11 regular season and 19 playoff games this season, and was not much more than a warm body. Levingston made $8MM this year, and Iquodola mate $18MM. Players don't work for free.

Once Klay got hurt, the Warriors had no chance. They wouldn't have made it out of the first round of the playoffs without Durant and Thompson, not because they didn't have enough stars, but the players like Cook, Jones and Jerebko were glorified G League players. Portland lost its starting center and third best player near the end of the season, but it had Enes Kanter at Center and made it to the conference finals. Depth matters.

Finally, Toronto doesn't get out of the second round of the playoffs without Marc Gasol, who was a late season pickup, and Vanvleet, a reserve, playing great down the stretch and in the playoffs. Toronto went 8 deep and all 8 of those players were critical to winning the Title.

The Heat won the 2013 finals with Mario Chalmers and Udonis Haslem as two of their starters . And Davis is better than Bosh was then and Leonard is a lot better now than Wade was that year.

Maybe the Lakers will run into depth issues at times in the regular season but in the playoffs when the rotations get shorter and there are no back to backs, they'll be fine. Add in Kuzma to their Big 3 and they'll have enough.

 

[superjohn]

I don't want Kawhi to sign with LA (and wasn't the whole reason he left SA to be a more noticeable star? Why join the milky way if that's the goal?!), but that would be a pretty fascinating experiment. How much better can 3 of the top 5 or 6 NBA players be versus balanced teams? It definitely would not be as much of a favorite or super team as the healthy Warriors have been for the last 3 seasons. The Warriors had 2 of top 6 and 4/5 starters in the top-20, plus a better bench than most.

Would the Lakers strategy be to build 30pt leads with their super-four and then let the reserves try to only lose by half that? Or could they be 10+pts better than everyone with a super-three and then one of their stars holds down the fort with the scrubs? Again I'm not rooting for it, but it would be different, interesting and definitely FAR from a defacto championship.

We've already seen it, despite what HuskyHawk and Nelson say. Outside of the big three the next best player on the Heat was Haslem or Chalmers.

 

[navery12]

"Stay competitive" lol.

They'll be very competitive for the chance to draft Anthony Edwards

 

[Scoe]

Latest signings

Elfred Payton-Knicks 2 years 12 mill

Enes Kanter-Celtics 2 years 10 mill

 

[Dogdeacon]

We've already seen it, despite what HuskyHawk and Nelson say. Outside of the big three the next best player on the Heat was Haslem or Chalmers.

I guess that's kinda right, seems different since they didn't start by totally gutting the team. I would quibble to say that in 2012 they had Battier and Mike Miller, the next year they added a guy named Ray Allen. Those are their two titles - key moments for those three in each.

 

[HuskyHawk]

I don't want Kawhi to sign with LA (and wasn't the whole reason he left SA to be a more noticeable star? Why join the milky way if that's the goal?!), but that would be a pretty fascinating experiment. How much better can 3 of the top 5 or 6 NBA players be versus balanced teams? It definitely would not be as much of a favorite or super team as the healthy Warriors have been for the last 3 seasons. The Warriors had 2 of top 6 and 4/5 starters in the top-20, plus a better bench than most.

Would the Lakers strategy be to build 30pt leads with their super-four and then let the reserves try to only lose by half that? Or could they be 10+pts better than everyone with a super-three and then one of their stars holds down the fort with the scrubs? Again I'm not rooting for it, but it would be different, interesting and definitely FAR from a defacto championship.

That's really all I'm saying. LeBron, AD and Kawhi plus the dregs of the league is not a slam dunk winner. It will have some great nights, and some bad ones. Any injury, or the aging LeBron taking a break, and this team becomes very thin. It will be very interesting for sure, as an experiment. The Warriors with a healthy KD, Curry and Klay, plus the guys they had like Green, were a much stronger team than this looks to be.

And while he is one of the best players ever, I am not convinced that LeBron is what he was. He may have a year or two before a big decline. I think that's the one way that Kawhi does make sense over quality depth, it leaves the Lakers a team that can win without Lebron later on.

It's going to be an interesting couple of seasons. The talent around the league has been spread out. I can see one of 8-10 teams that might win the championship next year. I think it's healthy for the league.

 

[the Q]

I guess that's kinda right, seems different since they didn't start by totally gutting the team. I would quibble to say that in 2012 they had Battier and Mike Miller, the next year they added a guy named Ray Allen. Those are their two titles - key moments for those three in each.

They added those guys in the exceptions over consecutive off seasons. The lakers will have such exceptions as well.

 

[Dogdeacon]

Latest signings

Elfred Payton-Knicks 2 years 12 mill

Enes Kanter-Celtics 2 years 10 mill

Oh no! Kanter's always been a guy I love to hate, ever since his non-Kentucky days.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Oh no! Kanter's always been a guy I love to hate, ever since his non-Kentucky days.

Not the guy I wanted, as I think they need defense first at the position, given that they need to contend with Embiid and others. But maybe Ainge thinks Williams can be the defensive center, and Kanter the offensive guy.

 

[superjohn]

I guess that's kinda right, seems different since they didn't start by totally gutting the team. I would quibble to say that in 2012 they had Battier and Mike Miller, the next year they added a guy named Ray Allen. Those are their two titles - key moments for those three in each.

Kuzma is significantly better than anything aftet the big three the Heat had in that first title. They get Kawhi and they will be huge favorites.

Really hope it doesn't happen.

 

[auror]

Not the guy I wanted, as I think they need defense first at the position, given that they need to contend with Embiid and others. But maybe Ainge thinks Williams can be the defensive center, and Kanter the offensive guy.

That's what I was thinking. Offense/defense.

 

[the Q]

Kuzma is significantly better than anything aftet the big three the Heat had in that first title. They get Kawhi and they will be huge favorites.

Really hope it doesn't happen.

They are gonna need a pg, but yeah. I’m not sure who else is out there for them.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

We've already seen it, despite what HuskyHawk and Nelson say. Outside of the big three the next best player on the Heat was Haslem or Chalmers.

Chalmers was a 39% 3-point shooter and a good ball handler. Haslem was a solid player too. That team actually had a good bench, including Battier, Joel Anthony and Mike Miller. Ironically, the team they beat was Westbrook, Durant and Harden, a very young Ibaka, and then it slipped pretty quickly. Regardless, both teams' benches would look like all-star teams compared to what the Lakers will assemble around a big 3 of Kawhi, AD and Lebron.

Kobe won back to back titles with Pao Gasol and a bunch of really good supporting players. Dirk, Hakeem and D-Wade (2006) all did similar. The Spurs won 5 titles with only 1 Top 15 player in the league on the team. But hey, you guys know better. The Lakers should take their Big 3, then cruise pick up games in Venice and Long Beach looking for talent. I am sure it will go well.

 

[auror]

They are gonna need a pg, but yeah. I’m not sure who else is out there for them.

Rondo, Tyus Jones, Delon Wright, or TJ McConnell for the PG.

Tyreke Evans ring chasing.
Danny Green ring chasing.
Javale McGee ring chasing.
Marcus Morris ring chasing.
Wesely Mathews ring chasing.
Iman Shumpert Lebron chasing.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Rondo, Tyus Jones, or TJ McConnell for the PG.
Tyreke Evans ring chasing.
Danny Green ring chasing.
Javale McGee ring chasing.
Wesely Mathews ring chasing.
Iman Shumpert Lebron chasing.

McGee has a ring.

Some of these guys are potentially looking at their last contract and have grossed a total of $30 or $40 million in their careers, but yeah, they will play for the NBA minimum so Lebron and Kawhi can make $30+. That's how NBA players think.

Anyone on that list would play for the Knicks over the Lakers if it got them an extra couple of hundred thousand. Anyone that has hopes of a future contract will play where they can get the most playing time.

Ring chasers are typically players who were former all-stars but are at the end of their career and never got a ring, so they will ride someone else's coattails. It doesn't happen that often.

 

[superjohn]

Rondo, Tyus Jones, Delon Wright, or TJ McConnell for the PG.

Tyreke Evans ring chasing.
Danny Green ring chasing.
Javale McGee ring chasing.
Marcus Morris ring chasing.
Wesely Mathews ring chasing.
Iman Shumpert Lebron chasing.

It's so much fun watching Nelson dig. Celtics are going to win the East because Kyrie and Horford are gone and they added Kemba. Lakers are going to suck if they add Kawhi to Lebron and AD.

 

[the Q]

Rondo, Tyus Jones, Delon Wright, or TJ McConnell for the PG.

Tyreke Evans ring chasing.
Danny Green ring chasing.
Javale McGee ring chasing.
Marcus Morris ring chasing.
Wesely Mathews ring chasing.
Iman Shumpert Lebron chasing.

They can’t sign the rfas. Won’t have the cap room if they get Kawhi.

Danny green is gonna get paid. Either by Dallas or Toronto. He’s supposedly waiting on Kawhi.

Keeping mcgee would be nice.

Tyreke Evans is gone for a while.

Shumpert seems like a no brainer.

Surprised Morris hasn’t gotten a deal yet.

 

[auror]

They can’t sign the rfas. Won’t have the cap room if they get Kawhi.

Danny green is gonna get paid. Either by Dallas or Toronto. He’s supposedly waiting on Kawhi.

Keeping mcgee would be nice.

Tyreke Evans is gone for a while.

Shumpert seems like a no brainer.

Surprised Morris hasn’t gotten a deal yet.

Sheet I'm going off of doesn't have the RFAs separated, doh.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

It's so much fun watching Nelson dig. Celtics are going to win the East because Kyrie and Horford are gone and they added Kemba. Lakers are going to suck if they add Kawhi to Lebron and AD.

NBA Off-Season Thread

Some big names could be moving, some more certain than others. We have LeBron, and now it looks like Kawhi wants out of San Antonio. With him moving, some big dominoes could start to fall We have to watch at least PG and CP3 as well. Also we're under a week away from the Draft. And the NBA...

the-boneyard.com

What did I get right?

Nuggets were going to be very good.​

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I predicted the Bucks to finish second when everyone else was picking them 6th or 7th in East.​

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Lakers would have trouble making the playoffs when everyone was praising Lebron.​

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My favorite quote of the whole thread is from one superjohn, exactly one year ago today:

"Celtics are right there, everyone else totally stinks in the East though. "

How did that post age?