OT: Mizzou black football players taking a stand | Page 15 | The Boneyard

OT: Mizzou black football players taking a stand

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SubbaBub said:
You have no idea what I have and haven't experienced with includes piloting an aircraft. So, why should I listen to someone who completely disrespects people by attempting, poorly, to marginalize them because he can't effectively counter an argumentative point?

If we chose to compare, intellect, education and life experience in a game of I'm better than you so my opinion matters more, then I'd be quite comfortable betting on myself in that game.

If a drunk driver takes away your ability to walk as a kid, there is no way you are playing 3B for Yankees and highly unlikely you will do a whole list of things.

Environments matter, but you are implying that black people need to deal with their place in the pecking order and whatever disadvantages they are dealt because of their environment? My response to that would likely be a big and perhaps a punch in the face. No one should have to accept a less than existence because of who they are and those protesting are fighting that idea. Sometime well and sometimes not. But seriously, screw you if you think that.
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Got under you skin did I? Good.

Let's take that drunk driving accident. Let's pretend that the kid, was a fantastic ball player, that wanted to play ball for the Yankees. On the way, he knew he had to play single A, double AA, Triple AAA. Let's say he worked his butt off on weekends as a kid, throwing, catching, hitting. WHen in high school, his friends were playing video games on Friday nights and chasing girls on Saturdays and Sundays, he was out playing ball in the yard. Throwing against a rebound net, doing wheatever when there was nobody to pair up with to help - didn't stop him.

Let's say he even got to the Yankees, and stepped out on the field - and played 3B, and then let's say - on the way out to his car that night, after showering, and all of it - a drunk driver hits him and takes his leg off.

Life just made a choice for him no?

People, when it comes to racism - often make the argument - that the choices that life makes for them - are similar having your legs chopped off. When you're thrust into a wheelchair by life - you are not going to be able to play baseball, or run track, or skate on ice. You might make it a goal - to walk again - if you're body is even capable , but that might not be realistic - to walk - so you got to re-evaluate your life's goals.

Is being born black being like thrust into a wheel chair with no legs? I don't think so.

Does life make choices for black people? Is this a world we live in - absolutely. Is having a bigot white racist saying and doing things that insult you for nothing more than your skin color offensive? Absolutely. Are there things in society- system racism - is a terminology thrown around - that exist that make things difficult for black people? Sure. Has society taken steps to try to address this? Sure. Is it adequate? No. Does more need to be done? Yes.

I've written that people need to be careful what they wish for, because they may get it. The black students in Missouri wanted the president to resign. They got it. What did they actually accomplish?

So with that: the predictable quote that I knew would come:

You write: "Environments matter, but you are implying that black people need to deal with their place in the pecking order and whatever disadvantages they are dealt because of their environment?"

THat's not what I'm implying at all, because being stuck in a wheelchair with no legs - is a condition of living - that is going to put hard limits on what you can achieve.

Being black - is not a condition of living - that is going to put hard limits on what you can achieve.

I have not anywhere suggested that it's easy, or is it fair - those things are different.
 
Payton Head now apologizes for making up the KKK on campus story.

If you want justice, you better do justice. For every single person it's required.
 
If there is one thing I could hope, right now, it's that the words that exist on the screen in this thread - from everyone- be re-read, and thought about - and as they're being read - any images of white or black faces - be reversed. Picture everyone in this thread as opposite of what you think of them by their words.

I've been accused of being a racist, here, others too. All we have pointed out, is that of course it's not easy, and of course there are different starting points in life, and of course there obstacles to overcome - and it's not fair, but being black - is not a condition of living - that puts hard limits of what you can set as goals, and work to achieve.

I believe that it is false premise - that being black puts hard limits on what a person can achieve. Have we forgotten that we have a black president? LIke him or not?

If that earns me that label 'racist', yes - I own it.

have a nice day all.
 
Dogged said:
Payton Head now apologizes for making up the KKK on campus story.

If you want justice, you better do justice. For every single person it's required.
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This is totally untrue. He never said he made up the story. He apologized for spreading the rumor. And that rumor is already evidenced by tweets which proceeded his. There's a big difference between making something up and spreading a rumor.

The tweets also went out shortly after a bunch of men in masks were seen walking through campus.
 
Carl Spackler said:
If there is one thing I could hope, right now, it's that the words that exist on the screen in this thread - from everyone- be re-read, and thought about - and as they're being read - any images of white or black faces - be reversed. Picture everyone in this thread as opposite of what you think of them by their words.

I've been accused of being a racist, here, others too. All we have pointed out, is that of course it's not easy, and of course there are different starting points in life, and of course there obstacles to overcome - and it's not fair, but being black - is not a condition of living - that puts hard limits of what you can set as goals, and work to achieve.

I believe that it is false premise - that being black puts hard limits on what a person can achieve. Have we forgotten that we have a black president? LIke him or not?

If that earns me that label 'racist', yes - I own it.

have a nice day all.
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Well said. On top of all of this, even hard limits can be challenged. My good friend was born with one arm, aside from being Controller at a high tech company is a very good golfer and competitive hockey player. But no, he wasn't going to the PGA or NHL.

As for skin color, it is functionally irrelevant. Its social role is constantly diminishing and this great melting pot continues to churn out people who increasingly aren't any one "race". The first African American adults I met as a child were an orthopedic surgeon and an ex NFL player who owned a tennis club. Their kids had no material disadvantages. I once worked with a "white" guy who lived many of his formative years homeless with a junkie mom, eating out of dumpsters. He was working, with a family, and trying to get through community college at night.

While it is fair for anyone to say to me that I don't know what it's like to be black, it's also fair to say that I don't know what it's like to be Italian, Jewish or to be any other "white" person. While I have no doubt that race causes some commonality of experience, I also have no doubt that other things have much, much bigger impacts on who you are and who you become. Your own decisions are one of those things.
 
Dogged said:
Payton Head now apologizes for making up the KKK on campus story.

If you want justice, you better do justice. For every single person it's required.
Expand ...
You are making up this story, not a good look.
 
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HuskyHawk said:
As for skin color, it is functionally irrelevant. Its social role is constantly diminishing and this great melting pot continues to churn out people who increasingly aren't any one "race". The first African American adults I met as a child were an orthopedic surgeon and an ex NFL player who owned a tennis club. Their kids had no material disadvantages. I once worked with a "white" guy who lived many of his formative years homeless with a junkie mom, eating out of dumpsters. He was working, with a family, and trying to get through community college at night.
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So you think your experience as one out of hundreds of millions of American citizens reflects the overall racial climate? I'm not denying that there are African Americans who have had much more favorable life course trajectories than certain whites. But is it fair to paint that reality as true for the majority?

And given the widespread backlash to the student protest movements and various outcroppings of black solidarity that have formed in the past year or so, I posit that skin color is not functionally irrelevant. We're hearing many young black voices who feel targeted and unsafe because of the color of their skin, and on the other side, we hear dissident white voices uncomfortable with black assembly or political organization. Do some reading into the "alternative right" presence on social media - you'll be a tad shocked. It's as if Southerners in the Jim Crow era were given smartphones.
 
HuskyHawk said:
Well said. On top of all of this, even hard limits can be challenged. My good friend was born with one arm, aside from being Controller at a high tech company is a very good golfer and competitive hockey player. But no, he wasn't going to the PGA or NHL.

As for skin color, it is functionally irrelevant. Its social role is constantly diminishing and this great melting pot continues to churn out people who increasingly aren't any one "race". The first African American adults I met as a child were an orthopedic surgeon and an ex NFL player who owned a tennis club. Their kids had no material disadvantages. I once worked with a "white" guy who lived many of his formative years homeless with a junkie mom, eating out of dumpsters. He was working, with a family, and trying to get through community college at night.

While it is fair for anyone to say to me that I don't know what it's like to be black, it's also fair to say that I don't know what it's like to be Italian, Jewish or to be any other "white" person. While I have no doubt that race causes some commonality of experience, I also have no doubt that other things have much, much bigger impacts on who you are and who you become. Your own decisions are one of those things.
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One of the more amazing things I've ever been privy to is help wounded men that are paralyzed scuba dive in a swimming pool. Can you imagine the fear in the eyes? But then to know what its like to be able to be in the water and not drown?

For that matter, can you imagine the anger, resentment, envy, jealousy, frank hatred and at worst self-loathing that such men feel?

Does racism inspire the same human rmotions? Absolutely.

I submit again, that being born black and suffering racial oppression and racial insult, is not the same as being thrust into a wheelchair and having your legs taken away, and people need to stop behaving and thinking that it is.

The choices are there, to overcome the negstive human emotion, make choices, set goals and reach them. Its not going to be easy, and hard work guarantees nothing but fatigue.

And guess what, when you're at the bottom of the pool with your scuba gear and well prepared - you don't drown.

Education and teachers - parenting. Teaching how to survive, and overcome, and thrive. Very important.

Its children that grow up without the guidance to have a chance, starting point irrelevant, that breaks my heart.
 
Stairmaster said:
So you think your experience as one out of hundreds of millions of American citizens reflects the overall racial climate? I'm not denying that there are African Americans who have had much more favorable life course trajectories than certain whites. But is it fair to paint that reality as true for the majority?

And given the widespread backlash to the student protest movements and various outcroppings of black solidarity that have formed in the past year or so, I posit that skin color is not functionally irrelevant. We're hearing many young black voices who feel targeted and unsafe because of the color of their skin, and on the other side, we hear dissident white voices uncomfortable with black assembly or political organization. Do some reading into the "alternative right" presence on social media - you'll be a tad shocked. It's as if Southerners in the Jim Crow era were given smartphones.
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Don't misunderstand what I mean by functionally irrelevant, I mean that it imposes no mental or physical handicap of any kind. That brown skinned people are every bit as capable as less brown people. It can present a societal impediment in other ways, I acknowledge that.

My point is that by grouping people by this simple categorization, we do a gross disservice to them. It is not what defines them, or shouldn't be. Many white folks have difficult lives, some black folks have easy ones. Jews have long been targets of discrimination and persecution, as were the Catholic Irish in Boston at one time ("no Irish need apply") and in their own country at the hands of the British. The Romany/Gyspies have been persecuted in many places. There are many other examples.

We need to look at people as individuals, and not members of any group. Any time any group of people proclaim themselves as different, and say they are "us", and others are "them", the members of "them" will react in a predictable fashion and reciprocate. It needs to stop, instead it keeps escalating. We new need leaders like MLK, who understood this.
 
upstater said:
This is totally untrue. He never said he made up the story. He apologized for spreading the rumor. And that rumor is already evidenced by tweets which proceeded his. There's a big difference between making something up and spreading a rumor.

The tweets also went out shortly after a bunch of men in masks were seen walking through campus.
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I hadn't heard about "men in masks". Please elaborate or link.
 
Carl Spackler said:
One of the more amazing things I've ever been privy to is help wounded men that are paralyzed scuba dive in a swimming pool. Can you imagine the fear in the eyes? But then to know what its like to be able to be in the water and not drown?

For that matter, can you imagine the anger, resentment, envy, jealousy, frank hatred and at worst self-loathing that such men feel?

Does racism inspire the same human rmotions? Absolutely.

I submit again, that being born black and suffering racial oppression and racial insult, is not the same as being thrust into a wheelchair and having your legs taken away, and people need to stop behaving and thinking that it is.

The choices are there, to overcome the negstive human emotion, make choices, set goals and reach them. Its not going to be easy, and hard work guarantees nothing but fatigue.

And guess what, when you're at the bottom of the pool with your scuba gear and well prepared - you don't drown.

Education and teachers - parenting. Teaching how to survive, and overcome, and thrive. Very important.

Its children that grow up without the guidance to have a chance, starting point irrelevant, that breaks my heart.
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Your assumption that the negative experience is limited to insults is the beginning of your problem. I would also point out that society developed wheelchairs, prosthetics, and an entire branch of orthopedics and rehabilitation therapy to assist paraplegics. The overriding response to minorities seeking similar assistance (justice in this case) is further derision. It would be like asking a legless person why don't they just climb the stairs with their arms? And before you think the sentiment behind that last bit of hyperbole doesn't exist, ask a building owner to bring his building up to ADA code. The only difference is universal sympathy for the guy in the chair vs. the building owner.
 
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Jimmy Serrano said:
You're already coming to conclusions before you even read the flipping study. Has it crossed your mind that after reading it you might actually agree with my assessment? You're being very close minded about this.
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LOL nice try Jimmy.
 
As a business owner/manager/decision maker, as most of you are. Would you even interview someone with a ethnic studies or liberal arts degree from missouri? Its obviously a very high risk situation.
 
UcannUconn said:
As a business owner/manager/decision maker, as most of you are. Would you even interview someone with a ethnic studies or liberal arts degree from missouri? Its obviously a very high risk situation.
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If you are a racist, I guess so. Unless the white kid who was arrested for killing every black person he could on campus was an ethnic studies or liberals arts major, then I guess you have a point.
 
tzznandrew said:
If you are a racist, I guess so. Unless the white kid who was arrested for killing every black person he could on campus was an ethnic studies or liberals arts major, then I guess you have a point.
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Than you are a bad leader. These people will be the first to sue you over nothing. I wouldn't hire someone like you to make decisions.
 
UcannUconn said:
Than you are a bad leader. These people will be the first to sue you over nothing. I wouldn't hire someone like you to make decisions.
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Neither would I you. Discrimination against groups of people because of personal prejudices is why this whole conversation is happening.
 
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UcannUconn said:
Than you are a bad leader. These people will be the first to sue you over nothing. I wouldn't hire someone like you to make decisions.
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Lol. You protested racism in college, you must be someone who will sue me.

Great logic.
 
CToeLqmUkAAN_u2.jpg
 
An interesting perspective from that noted conservative commentator - Alan Dershowitz:



"These are the same people who claim they are seeking diversity. The last thing these students want is real diversity, diversity of ideas. They may want superficial diversity, diversity of gender, diversity of color, but they do not want diversity of ideas.

We are seeing a curtain of McCarthyism descend over many college campuses I don't want to make analogies to the 1930s, but it was the college students who first started burning books during the Nazi regime. These students are book burners...

By expressing my opinion, I am "harassing students." This is becoming a very serious problem not only in American universities, but around the world. It is having a terrible impact on the education of students...

It is the worst kind of hypocrisy. They want complete control over their personal lives, over their sex lives, over the use of drugs, but they want mommy and daddy dean to please give them a safe place, to protect them from ideas that maybe are insensitive, maybe will make them think...

When I spoke at Johns Hopkins University, the same students who were talking about a 'safe space,' painted a Hitler mustache on my posters, it is an absolute double standard.

It is free speech for me, but not for thee. Universities should not tolerate this kind of hypocrisy, double standard…

The fog of fascism is descending upon American college campuses..."
 
CL82 said:
An interesting perspective from that noted conservative commentator - Alan Dershowitz:



"These are the same people who claim they are seeking diversity. The last thing these students want is real diversity, diversity of ideas. They may want superficial diversity, diversity of gender, diversity of color, but they do not want diversity of ideas.

We are seeing a curtain of McCarthyism descend over many college campuses I don't want to make analogies to the 1930s, but it was the college students who first started burning books during the Nazi regime. These students are book burners...

By expressing my opinion, I am "harassing students." This is becoming a very serious problem not only in American universities, but around the world. It is having a terrible impact on the education of students...

It is the worst kind of hypocrisy. They want complete control over their personal lives, over their sex lives, over the use of drugs, but they want mommy and daddy dean to please give them a safe place, to protect them from ideas that maybe are insensitive, maybe will make them think...

When I spoke at Johns Hopkins University, the same students who were talking about a 'safe space,' painted a Hitler mustache on my posters, it is an absolute double standard.

It is free speech for me, but not for thee. Universities should not tolerate this kind of hypocrisy, double standard…

The fog of fascism is descending upon American college campuses..."
Expand ...

Don't sell Dershowitz short by calling him a commentator, he actually has a brain.
 
.-.
CL82 said:
An interesting perspective from that noted conservative commentator - Alan Dershowitz:



"These are the same people who claim they are seeking diversity. The last thing these students want is real diversity, diversity of ideas. They may want superficial diversity, diversity of gender, diversity of color, but they do not want diversity of ideas.

We are seeing a curtain of McCarthyism descend over many college campuses I don't want to make analogies to the 1930s, but it was the college students who first started burning books during the Nazi regime. These students are book burners...

By expressing my opinion, I am "harassing students." This is becoming a very serious problem not only in American universities, but around the world. It is having a terrible impact on the education of students...

It is the worst kind of hypocrisy. They want complete control over their personal lives, over their sex lives, over the use of drugs, but they want mommy and daddy dean to please give them a safe place, to protect them from ideas that maybe are insensitive, maybe will make them think...
Expand ...


Rings absolutely hollow coming from a guy whose number one goal in life right now is squelching debate on Israeli/Palestinian issues on campuses.

http://academeblog.org/2012/06/08/an-interview-with-alan-dershowitz/

This guy was a hitman against the free speech rights of both Finkelstein at DePaul and Steven Salaita at Illinois. Both those guys won their court cases against their universities.

Now Dershowitz is accusing these schools of free speech hypocrisy?

There's a word for that: chutzpah!
 
superjohn said:
You sound like a big part of the problem.
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Really, maybe you should look at the ridiculousness going on at campuses across the nation. It is mind boggling what they are saying about free speech and how it needs to be squelched, disgusting.
 
Not talking racial issues at all, but this tweet just reaffirms a lot of my issue with this whole scenario at Missouri. I do not discount the issues at all, but quite a bit of this saga has reeked of just attention whoring.

1447468122837.jpg
 
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