OT: Melo is sooo dumb

[businesslawyer]

I'm not saying that I think he was disloyal; I'm saying that, based on what is being reported, I think Dolan's sense that Lin was disloyal played a part in the decision not to match (um, that is, if they don't match, which they still may, but shouldn't imo). And I can understand how Dolan could feel that way, if it is true--and I haven't heard anyone suggest anything to the contrary--that:

Lin had an offer from the Rockets to which he and the Rockets agreed.

The terms of that offer were accurately reported to the Knicks.

The Knicks told Lin--and everyone who would listen--that they would match that offer, but they were never presented with it.

Lin went back to the Rockets and reworked the deal to make it harder for the Knicks to match, and that's the only deal that has ever been presented to the Knicks.

Whether it was disloyal to the Knicks or screwed them is beside the point imo. He certainly did what he should have done if he was concerned primarily about getting a higher guarantee, and however anyone reads the collateral fallout is up to them. The fact is that he reworked the offer, after being told the Knicks would match it, to make himself more guaranteed money, knowing fully well that the Knicks were less likely to match it. I'm not "blaming" him per se, but if he or anyone else is upset when he doesn't end up with the Knicks, I think it's fair to say that he was a knowing and willing participant in the circumstances that brought about that result. Simply put, if he kept his trap shut and didn't go back to Vegas to re-do the offer, he would be heading to New York. The choice was his, and like most people he went for more guaranteed money. In Houston.

You are missing the point. At least, my point. He didn't have a signed offer. The Rockets presumably had little interest in signing one that was DOA. Lin needed something signed by someone, the Knicks had made clear that they wouldn't go first so Lin ultimately had to sign what Houston was willing to sign.

Even Dolan isn't so stupid as to think Lin was disloyal. Presumably, Dolan leaked that they would match to try to get Houston to do something that he would have cover for not matching.

 

[8893]

You are missing the point. At least, my point. He didn't have a signed offer. The Rockets presumably had little interest in signing one that was DOA. Lin needed something signed by someone, the Knicks had made clear that they wouldn't go first so Lin ultimately had to sign what Houston was willing to sign.

Even Dolan isn't so stupid as to think Lin was disloyal. Presumably, Dolan leaked that they would match to try to get Houston to do something that he would have cover for not matching.

Well then in your scenario everybody got exactly what they wanted and no one should be upset. Lin got the most money he could; the Rockets got the player they wanted; and the Knicks got cover for not signing a fan favorite.

Perhaps we'll never know, but unlike you, I don't presume that the Rockets would not have signed the original offer sheet, or that they did not sign it. I also presume that Lin could have signed the original offer sheet on July 11, and that--as has been widely reported--he instead went back to the Rockets and tried to get them to up the ante for the third year after he was told that the Knicks would match the original offer. It was a shrewd business move, and it got him more money and out of NYC--if that's what he wanted. And it got the Rockets their man--if that's what they wanted. All I'm saying is that it took both Lin and Houston to tango and change the original offer. I have not heard anyone other than you suggest that the Rockets would not have stuck to the original offer if Lin would have as well.

 

[businesslawyer]

Well then in your scenario everybody got exactly what they wanted and no one should be upset. Lin got the most money he could; the Rockets got the player they wanted; and the Knicks got cover for not signing a fan favorite.

Perhaps we'll never know, but unlike you, I don't presume that the Rockets would not have signed the original offer sheet, or that they did not sign it. I also presume that Lin could have signed the original offer sheet on July 11, and that--as has been widely reported--he instead went back to the Rockets and tried to get them to up the ante for the third year after he was told that the Knicks would match the original offer. It was a shrewd business move, and it got him more money and out of NYC--if that's what he wanted. And it got the Rockets their man--if that's what they wanted. All I'm saying is that it took both Lin and Houston to tango and change the original offer. I have not heard anyone other than you suggest that the Rockets would not have stuck to the original offer if Lin would have as well.

Are you Dolan's brother. You're not able to follow the bouncing ball on a matter that someone without a horse in the race should be able to.

I'm a Knick fan. I'm mad at Dolan for not getting Lin signed, and for not having the balls to say we're not signing him because we can do better for our money (or, because 'Melo won't be happy, which is still my guess). If I'm proven wrong as a basketball matter, so be it. But there is no defense for how Dolan played this if you take what he's saying seriously.

If Lin got what he wanted, good for him. But I don't see any reason to think what he wanted is exactly what he said, which is to have NY pay him what he is worth.

 

[Scoe]

You aren't aware of the rules of internet debate are you? First person who says Hitler, loses.

Linsanity died when Melo came back, not when Lin got hurt. Melo's demands neutralized Lin's strengths. Why would that change next year? Why would Lin want to deal with that for the next 3 or 4 years? Much better to start fresh.

What am I trying to win here? I dont go by the rules of internet debate I dont make myself a slave to the internet. Maybe Lin wants to accept that offer sheet to make more money? just a thought, I dont think Lin would be that dissapointed to play in NYC with 2 allstars a border line allstar and an emerging young player and learning from a HOF pg. Either way he is getting his money.

 

[8893]

Are you Dolan's brother. You're not able to follow the bouncing ball on a matter that someone without a horse in the race should be able to.

I'm a Knick fan. I'm mad at Dolan for not getting Lin signed, and for not having the balls to say we're not signing him because we can do better for our money (or, because 'Melo won't be happy, which is still my guess). If I'm proven wrong as a basketball matter, so be it. But there is no defense for how Dolan played this if you take what he's saying seriously.

If Lin got what he wanted, good for him. But I don't see any reason to think what he wanted is exactly what he said, which is to have NY pay him what he is worth.

I'm not sure what you think I'm not following. I simply disagree with your conclusions about the factors that lead to this result and the assumptions required to reach those conclusions.

You assume that there was an agreed-to value for Lin. I disagree. I think it's very subjective, and different for each team, depending on very specific circumstances. I have said from the start that, if the Knicks were truly set on keeping Lin, it is fair to question the wisdom in their decision to let the market set the value. At this point it's hindsight. They agreed to the process that the league provides to determine value in these circumstances. If the Knicks wanted to keep Lin, they almost won that gamble because I don't believe anyone else was considering offers in the same area code, and even the initial Houston offer wasn't as bad as it could have been.

You assume that the Knicks have an infinite amount of money. I disagree. Assuming that the amount offered by Houston is Lin's "value" (let me know if you have a better gauge than an arm's length transaction), you apparently believe that the Knicks should simply match it. I think you underestimate the effects of the new luxury tax rules and overestimate the ability of the Knicks to realize enough of an increase in "global marketing" revenue to offset the penalty they would face under the present offer.

You assume that Lin's global marketing potential is enough to offset the luxury tax penalty. I disagree. It is my understanding that merchandise revenue is divided among the NBA teams, which, if true, lessens whatever this would net. The Knicks do not have a problem selling tickets, with or without Lin. I think this factor is vastly overrated, and too dependent on other assumptions to let it figure as much in the equation as many suggest it should. For starters, it assumes that the Knicks do well enough, and that Lin be enough a part of that success, to provide the significant increase in exposure that would be needed for the Knicks to count on receiving enough of an economic boost to offset materially the luxury tax penalty. I'm not betting on that quinella.

You assume that the decision was premeditated and based solely on Dolan's assessment--however reached--that Lin didn't fit the Knicks' plans. I disagree. I don't think it's that simple. I think it was (and is) a fluid situation. I believe that the Knicks would have matched the initial offer. I think there were limits beyond which they could not justify the deal, and that Houston and Lin found that limit. But even that could change. I'm not one to praise the Knicks' basketball acumen, but in general I agree with their policy of not explaining what they don't need to explain, and not making their final decision known until they have to. Say it turns out that Kidd is seriously hurt from the DUI incident, or that they sour on him and see that as an out for his contract. At least until tomorrow night they still have the opportunity to overpay for Lin. Which is pretty much what happened to Houston between the first and second deal; i.e., they apparently lost too many other options in the meantime and Lin suddenly became more valuable to them--so valuable that they structured the deal to make sure that they get him, because now they really need him. The Knicks hardly cured their situation with Felton, but it at least it prevented them from being held captive in a deal they probably weren't sure they wanted in the first place, but could have justified as a reasonable risk.

 

[Huskies4ever]

Uh oh. Francesa has the same exact take as I do. I don't know if this has ever happened before. Perhaps I am wrong about this after all.

I feel so sorry for you

 

[Huskies4ever]

Everybody's missing the big point: How difficult is it going to be to have Jeremy Lin and Jeremy Lamb in the same backcourt? Commentator: "Jeremy Lin to the basket!" Fans: "Did he say Lin or Lamb?"

 

[Waquoit]

What am I trying to win here? I dont go by the rules of internet debate I dont make myself a slave to the internet.

This the thanks I get for trying to help you out? Actually, 1st person who uses Hitler in argument loses anywhere. It's telling people that you got nothing, because if you did you wouldn't be using Hitler.

 

[8893]

@ BL: This is what the NYT reports:

The Knicks wanted to keep Lin, but his financial situation was complicated. Because he was a restricted free agent, the Knicks had the right to match any offer. Yet under N.B.A. rules, they could offer him no more than $16.13 million in a three-year deal, and a maximum of $28.75 million over five years. Only a rival team was allowed to include the third-year balloon payment. So it was up to Lin to set his own market value by getting an outside offer. He initially agreed with Houston on a three-year, $19.5 million deal, including a $9.3 million balloon payment in the third year. That deal was agreed to in principle but never signed.
When it became apparent that the Knicks would match, the Rockets — having traded Lowry and lost Dragic — increased the third-year salary to $14.9 million. Because the Knicks are already expected to exceed the tax threshold, Lin’s salary would have cost them tens of millions more under the league’s more punitive new system. When the Rockets bumped Lin’s third-year salary by $5 million, it meant an additional $21.25 million for the Knicks.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/18/s...s-lin-rockets-offer-sheet.html?pagewanted=all

Did you know the bolded part? I didn't until today.