OT - Lance Armstrong

[sportsjunky1]

LIVESTRONG

 

[Palatine]

It seems like the only "evidence" against Armstrong is unnamed witnesses who are proven dopers. There is no evidence he "clearly doped." None.

This would not stand up in court. In fact, no prosecutor would even take such a case to trial.

This is clearly a guilty until proven innocent case.

 

[husky91]

Dude cheated. He was probably the best anyway, but no leniency. Think of all the would be HOF that won't be because of same thing.... Bonds, ARod, Mark, Clemens, etc.

What do folks think about his decision to give up appeals and the legal battles and the "U.S. Anti-Doping Agency" (for what productive purpose does such an organization even exist, are my tax dollars supporting this and the Salem Anti-Witchcraft Agency !) decision to strip him of his titles?

My opinion is he clearly doped because everyone did - so I don't care if he doped. Also I don't see the point in 'stripping' him of Tour De France titles/victories so long after the fact. Especially weird that a separate US governing body can waltz onto France's turf* and take away the wins.
*admittedly want are the French going to do, throw crouisants and truffles at us?

He won the damn races and got all the money, fanfare etc.. all you are taking away now from a global perspective is some BS legacy stuff. So is the purpose to make an example to deter future potential dopers? I think that's also BS as each future rider/doper will weigh the risk/reward and competitive situation at the time and make an individual choice. And I assume now everyone dopes scientifically right up to permissable levels.

Futher there has to be some statute of limitations on how long after the fact you can take away a championship, title, medal, win, award etc... 1 year seems about right. Going this far back in time is just ludicrous and 7-time Tour De France winner is going to remain part of Lance's name regardless, just maybe now its 7-time winner who's titles were stripped.

Lastly, here we have the most popular US cyclist by a gazillion miles. Let's cut him off at the knees after the fact. I think Lance is likely an egotist and clearly not a very good husband/boyfriend (hmm no different than most hugely successful athletes), but Lance has also done a ton for the sport and for cancer treatment. This almost has to be simply personal as that's also where the greatest impact of the title removal falls. Overall the net effect on the sport is INCREDIBLY negative, just d-u-m-b.

 

[junglehusky]

It seems like the only "evidence" against Armstrong is unnamed witnesses who are proven dopers. There is no evidence he "clearly doped." None.

This would not stand up in court. In fact, no prosecutor would even take such a case to trial.

This is clearly a guilty until proven innocent case.

No evidence, none, period. Well, except for the evidence that he tested positive for cortisone, which he got a retroactive medical waiver for, the team doctor was filmed disposing Actovegin, his 1999 samples that were re-tested and came out positive for EPO (his connections at the UCI really went to bat for him on that one), and his bio-passport from his comeback tour which was found to be consistent with blood manipulation. Other than that, he's clean, so I guess all those witnesses must be part of a grand conspiracy. Yeah, that makes sense.

 

[ZooCougar]

Nope. How are Dave Zabriskie, George Hincapie, and Christian Vandevelde proven dopers?

It seems like the only "evidence" against Armstrong is unnamed witnesses who are proven dopers. There is no evidence he "clearly doped." None.

This would not stand up in court. In fact, no prosecutor would even take such a case to trial.

This is clearly a guilty until proven innocent case.

 

[mauconnfan]

Agree with nomar.....he's a cheater, he got caught, take the titles away.........

But like others say, who's to say #2 or even #3 weren't cheating? Crazy sport...............

 

[Taco]

He probably doped - like all the top riders did - but from what I've read the USDA basically hasn't and doesn't have to prove anything to what most people would consider beyond a reasonable doubt. It sounds like a Kangaroo court w/o the kind of due process one would expect.

 

[uconnfan68]

Great post.

I thought Lance used Cancer as a shield to deflect the scrutiny. He used to say things in the press like "If you doubt me then clearly you are for cancer and you don't believe in miracles".

Most Americans don't follow the sport as religously as us. This is why they seem so shocked this morning. The lies and the subterfuge have been going on for years. And like most other sports fans, we want to know that what we are seeing is "real".

This is why I am Garmin fan. With that team, at least you are almost 100% certain that those riders are clean, so when they win you know it's a clean win.

I am eagerly awaiting the USADA's release of evidence. I am sure it will shut the pieholes of alot of ignorant people.

I don't care what they do to him, but seriously, he retired years ago, and every one of his tests was clean. Why don't they just say "we were too stupid to catch anyone so all non-French are guilty"?

 

[MilliniumPrince]

The fact that people believe he was clean is unbelievable.

 

[UConnSwag11]

guilty until proven innocent

 

[ZooCougar]

I don't care what they do to him, but seriously, he retired years ago, and every one of his tests was clean. Why don't they just say "we were too stupid to catch anyone so all non-French are guilty"?

Not every test. And he retired. Last year.

Try again.

 

[junglehusky]

I don't care what they do to him, but seriously, he retired years ago, and every one of his tests was clean. Why don't they just say "we were too stupid to catch anyone so all non-French are guilty"?

More like, we caught him, and then covered it up. ("We" being the UCI. USADA and the feds had to build a case outside of the UCI, and the head of the UCI is in damage control mode). Also, the gendarmes (police) were ready to raid his team hotel in 2005 but someone from higher up the chain cancelled the raid. Maybe Lance's buddy Sarkozy pulled some strings.

 

[uconnfan68]

Not every test. And he retired. Last year.

Try again.

STILL don't care.

 

[Edward Sargent]

What do folks think about his decision to give up appeals and the legal battles and the "U.S. Anti-Doping Agency" (for what productive purpose does such an organization even exist, are my tax dollars supporting this and the Salem Anti-Witchcraft Agency !) decision to strip him of his titles?

My opinion is he clearly doped because everyone did - so I don't care if he doped. Also I don't see the point in 'stripping' him of Tour De France titles/victories so long after the fact. Especially weird that a separate US governing body can waltz onto France's turf* and take away the wins.
*admittedly want are the French going to do, throw crouisants and truffles at us?

He won the damn races and got all the money, fanfare etc.. all you are taking away now from a global perspective is some BS legacy stuff. So is the purpose to make an example to deter future potential dopers? I think that's also BS as each future rider/doper will weigh the risk/reward and competitive situation at the time and make an individual choice. And I assume now everyone dopes scientifically right up to permissable levels.

Futher there has to be some statute of limitations on how long after the fact you can take away a championship, title, medal, win, award etc... 1 year seems about right. Going this far back in time is just ludicrous and 7-time Tour De France winner is going to remain part of Lance's name regardless, just maybe now its 7-time winner who's titles were stripped.

Lastly, here we have the most popular US cyclist by a gazillion miles. Let's cut him off at the knees after the fact. I think Lance is likely an egotist and clearly not a very good husband/boyfriend (hmm no different than most hugely successful athletes), but Lance has also done a ton for the sport and for cancer treatment. This almost has to be simply personal as that's also where the greatest impact of the title removal falls. Overall the net effect on the sport is INCREDIBLY negative, just d-u-m-b.

Interesting point is that they will have to turn over several of the races to the #2 finisher who in the case of Jan Ullrich was already convicted of doping. Hows that gonna work out for ya?