OT - Kobe

[dogfan96]

Yup.... Um, you know he won 5 championships right? He was not Jordan and there were times when he tried to be. But to say that he never got teammates to perform is asinine. Before you say, "But Shaq?" You can easily counter with Pippen; one of the most underrated players in the history of the NBA. Jordan never won without Phil or at least one hall of famer around him either. And that's transitively assuming that Pau Gasol qualifies as a hall of famer, and I'm not so sure about that.

I never liked his ego and thought he came out a bit douchey at times, but in my lifetime (36 years and counting), he is on the short list of the single most talented basketball players I've ever seen. He did things that only Jordan could do and when hot hit shots that I'm not sure Jordan could have hit. He was talented.

Shaq and Pippen are not comparable players. Shaq was the most dominant player in the league during his time with the Lakers. And Pau Gasol is a HOF player. Probably the 2nd best international player ever behind Dirk Nowitzki (meaning guys who didn't play college ball in the U.S.). He was 2nd team All-NBA last year at age 34.

 

[dogfan96]

I don't want to detract from what was a surreal send off, but Duncan was the better player.

Yup... same number of titles, more MVPs, more Finals MVPs.. no drama, no trade demands

 

[gtcam]

I enjoy the team game more. Jordan was not considered selfish and got teammates to perform. Kobe failed at this and really came off poorly when he tried to demand greatness from others like Jordan did. I really dislike Kobe - Let's not forget about the rape either. That ego... I am just ready for him to go away and that is happening.

Your dislike for him is allowing you to turn your back on his absolute talent
I feel that way towards many figures in sports but I do appreciate what they bring to the game - not looking at personality, etc.
Kobe was/is a rare talent - he is no imitation of MJ - both were superior players in their prime
Kobe was a good team player when the Lakers were awesome - he used his teammates to their strengths as did MJ
I despised the Lakers then and laugh at them now.
Don't overlook at the BS MJ did off the court

About the only player who I hated and gave no credit to his/her ability was/is C Laettner

Kobe is a sure fire first ballot HoFer and deserves to be - the man can ball

 

[jibsey]

There can be no dispute of Kobe's greatness and the send off is well done, but his team won 17 games this season and he bears some of that responsibility. Did he have to scarf up 25 million or could he have gotten by wth 12 and the team uses the rest to start rebuilding with Kobe as a player/mentor and give the Lakers a head start on next year? This whole adulation last year tour is distasteful. It was for Jeter, Poppy, all of them. These zillionaires need useless gifts, and then their egos stroked for an entire season?

 

[Waquoit]

There can be no dispute of Kobe's greatness and the send off is well done, but his team won 17 games this season and he bears some of that responsibility.

He did his job. He took attention away from the fact that LA was tanking. But this whole thing seems forced to me. Few outside LA and Bristol care about the guy.

 

[polycom]

He did his job. He took attention away from the fact that LA was tanking. But this whole thing seems forced to me. Few outside LA and Bristol care about the guy.

At least 10M people in China disagree with you.

 

[aceboon]

He did his job. He took attention away from the fact that LA was tanking. But this whole thing seems forced to me. Few outside LA and Bristol care about the guy.

lol, I'm indifferent on Kobe but there's a reason he has own segment of fans that have been nicknamed "Kobestan" and they don't all reside in LA. You're old and out of touch but that's ok.

 

[nomar]

I enjoy the team game more. Jordan was not considered selfish and got teammates to perform. Kobe failed at this and really came off poorly when he tried to demand greatness from others like Jordan did. I really dislike Kobe - Let's not forget about the rape either. That ego... I am just ready for him to go away and that is happening.

Amazingly, I agree with every word you said -- and I still was rooting for Kobe to hit 50...and then 60 last night. Sure, he was chucking but by the end of the game he was making everything. Perfect ending to a career.

 

[CardiacAndre7]

I don't want to detract from what was a surreal send off, but Duncan was the better player.

I disagree respectfully

 

[Tenspro2002]

Whatever you feel about Kobe personally, you have to respect him as a competitor. In that regard, he was on MJ's level and may be one of the last.

He didn't go jumping around teams trying to play with his buddies, he didn't fraternize with opposing players. He was the ultimate competitor.

 

[Waquoit]

lol, I'm indifferent on Kobe but there's a reason he has own segment of fans that have been nicknamed "Kobestan" and they don't all reside in LA. You're old and out of touch but that's ok.

At least you didn't bring up China. But I enjoy your following me like a little puppy.

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

Whatever you feel about Kobe personally, you have to respect him as a competitor. In that regard, he was on MJ's level and may be one of the last.

This is true. Say what you want about him but he was a tough, relentlessly competitive dude who appreciate hard-nosed basketball and didn't bitch and moan about every little bump. And staring at Matt Barnes when he pump faked in his face was ice cold. I was never a Laker fan but always admired him as a competitor.

 

[dogfan96]

Kobe scores 60 in 'retirement' mode. A lot of young players this year didn't score half that.

Kobe's claim to fame is his fadeaway jumper. Lethal it was and the best fadeaway shot ever, better than MJ's. That signature shot will be his statue I hope. I'm no fan but I respect greatness. He didn't wake up and become great, he did more off the court to prepare and train than people will ever know.

MJ shot 50% from the field 8 times and finished at 50% for his career. Even with the Wizards years. Kobe has never shot 50% from the field. MJ was the master of the midrange game in his prime and later years.

 

[dogfan96]

Whatever you feel about Kobe personally, you have to respect him as a competitor. In that regard, he was on MJ's level and may be one of the last.

He didn't go jumping around teams trying to play with his buddies, he didn't fraternize with opposing players. He was the ultimate competitor.

Some people think having friends and enjoying your life is a good thing. MJ and Kobe are also known as 2 of the biggest dbags ever, both on and off the court. MJ punched Steve Kerr in the face for having the nerve to talk back to him. When basketball (or anything) is more important to you than personal relationships, you should take a step back. People seem to conveniently forget that Kobe loudly demanded a trade (not once, but twice) when the post-Shaq era wasn't going as planned. They drafted Bynum (when he cared about basketball) and signed Gasol (the best player on a bad team and likely HOF) and then they started winning again.

 

[intlzncster]

Never warmed up to Kobe. Magic had that radiant smile. Kobe always looked like a weasel and was never funny like Barkley.
Never thought he was a great ambassador for the league. Kobe was always about Kobe.

The Chinese absolutely love him. Probably more than any other NBA star (along w Marbury actually). Kobe's big in Asia.

His attitude (on the court only) is one of the things I actually like about the guy. Not a fan of him, but that nasty attitude was a throwback to 80s NBA. And I miss that.

 

[intlzncster]

Yup... same number of titles, more MVPs, more Finals MVPs.. no drama, no trade demands

Can you imagine if the only complaint someone has about you is your (incredibly dominant) game is too boring?

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

Some people think having friends and enjoying your life is a good thing. MJ and Kobe are also known as 2 of the biggest dbags ever, both on and off the court. MJ punched Steve Kerr in the face for having the nerve to talk back to him. When basketball (or anything) is more important to you than personal relationships, you should take a step back. People seem to conveniently forget that Kobe loudly demanded a trade (not once, but twice) when the post-Shaq era wasn't going as planned. They drafted Bynum (when he cared about basketball) and signed Gasol (the best player on a bad team and likely HOF) and then they started winning again.

Have you noticed that a lot of people who have the relentless, uncompromising will to become the very best in their chosen field and the natural ability accompanying that - whether in art, music, sports, whatever - aren't necessarily people you'd like to have a beer with? That "step back" you talk about is often the difference between very good and being great.

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

He did his job. He took attention away from the fact that LA was tanking. But this whole thing seems forced to me. Few outside LA and Bristol care about the guy.

Kobe Bryant had the third highest selling jersey in the league behind Curry and Lebron this season.

 

[intlzncster]

I disagree respectfully

Duncan has a arguable case to be a top 5 NBA player of all time, probably 5-10 somewhere though. He's the best PF of all time imo. Kobe's probably just outside the top 10.

 

[intlzncster]

Have you noticed that a lot of people who have the relentless, uncompromising will to become the very best in their chosen field and the natural ability accompanying that - whether in art, music, sports, whatever - aren't necessarily people you'd like to have a beer with? That "step back" you talk about is often the difference between very good and being great.

It's actually often what it means to be a 'genius' in something...unrelenting, obsessive OCD-like focus to the point of psychosis. It's almost a mental disorder channeled into something productive.

 

[dogfan96]

Duncan has a arguable case to be a top 5 NBA player of all time, probably 5-10 somewhere though. He's the best PF of all time imo. Kobe's probably just outside the top 10.

And pretty much every major publication has them ranked as such. Every one of the "greatest ever" lists has Duncan ahead of Kobe. And they're right. Duncan did everything right. When he was the best, he was the best. When he wasn't the best, he was willing to take a step back (and less money) to keep fielding a contending team. And he still has all the accolades (actually more) and championships beside his name.

 

[dogfan96]

Have you noticed that a lot of people who have the relentless, uncompromising will to become the very best in their chosen field and the natural ability accompanying that - whether in art, music, sports, whatever - aren't necessarily people you'd like to have a beer with? That "step back" you talk about is often the difference between very good and being great.

You can be great without being a huge . See Duncan, LeBron and others. You've never heard a teammate say anything bad about either of those guys. Meanwhile, MJ was punching teammates and Kobe was on tape in a mall parking lot trashing a teammate who would eventually help him win 2 more championships.

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

You can be great without being a huge . See Duncan, LeBron and others. You've never heard a teammate say anything bad about either of those guys. Meanwhile, MJ was punching teammates and Kobe was on tape in a mall parking lot trashing a teammate who would eventually help him win 2 more championships.

There are exceptions to everything. The annals of history are FULL of "geniuses" who were pretty damaged human beings. I'd make a list but it'd probably be easier to list the ones who weren't.

 

[mauconnfan]

There are exceptions to everything. The annals of history are FULL of "geniuses" who were pretty damaged human beings. I'd make a list but it'd probably be easier to list the ones who weren't.

No doubt, more than likely plenty on the teams we all rooted for I'm sure. And they were guys we rooted for but had blinders on. (imagine that?)

 

[Kitaman]

MJ shot 50% from the field 8 times and finished at 50% for his career. Even with the Wizards years. Kobe has never shot 50% from the field. MJ was the master of the midrange game in his prime and later years.

Not saying the Kobe was the better shooter, just said that his signature fadeaway move was perfection.

 

[methodology]

You can be great without being a huge . See Duncan, LeBron and others. You've never heard a teammate say anything bad about either of those guys. Meanwhile, MJ was punching teammates and Kobe was on tape in a mall parking lot trashing a teammate who would eventually help him win 2 more championships.

There actually quite a few people who think LeBron is a . I use to not think that way until my uncle told me a story about him working at his compound in Ohio a few years ago. Really changed my perception of LeBron true colors

 

[UConn990411]

LeBron isn't a bad person, but he's the definition of a .

 

[aceboon]

Not saying the Kobe was the better shooter, just said that his signature fadeaway move was perfection.

Its a "signature move" that he got from MJ, did you watch Jordan? Nothing wrong with emulating the best, but its a bit weird that you're attributing that move to Kobe and not the master at it. Next you're gonna tell us Durant was the master at the one legged step back jumper.

 

[Kitaman]

Its a "signature move" that he got from MJ, did you watch Jordan? Nothing wrong with emulating the best, but its a bit weird that you're attributing that move to Kobe and not the master at it. Next you're gonna tell us Durant was the master at the one legged step back jumper.

Not sure what you are trying to say. All I said was "Not saying the Kobe was the better shooter, just said that his signature fadeaway move was perfection."

Of course he got it from Jordan, but what's your point? Are you saying that two players can't have the same signature move?

 

[aceboon]

Not sure what you are trying to say. All I said was "Not saying the Kobe was the better shooter, just said that his signature fadeaway move was perfection."

Of course he got it from Jordan, but what's your point? Are you saying that two players can't have the same signature move?

My point was you said it was the best ever, better than MJs, and I'm telling you it wasn't.